i want to learn to weld...

[DJW]

GregH, Gee all that stuff is completely over my head, in my days they were talking of processes that eliminated the human hand factor. Fusion and other foolproof processes. Around 1960 was talk of welding pipe joints by fusion, claimed was being used even then. In 1955 I was running a submerged arc, solid wire and granular flux, and was told then of gas replacing granular flux. The used flux had a recovery unit, vacuum to separate the dust, but even then could be contaminated with oil etc from the machine its self. That was my first job when I came to the USA helping to build that pipe welder for 12 inch dust collectors, (anti-pollution not a new thing, although many think so) the metal was Corten anti-abrasive. After a few days the superintendent asked me how I was getting along etc. then said to pay attention of the building of the machine as I was to run it when completed.

 

[JWelch]

Greg like you were saying about the lot of pipe. I have run into a problem when the contrator goes sheap and buys pipe made in china which sometime have a bevel on the outside and inside. Then buys made in america fittings. Thats fun to get those together inside walls don't want to meet up and then having to soak the heat in on one side to make the tie in complete.

 

[GHarman]

JWelch, DJW, I have never run the submerged arc process. That why its important for all of us to provide input in there areas of experience. Someone out there may be struggling with the very process with which you have expertise. Yes, 1960's were the beginning of safety and environmental controls in the workplace. They were very slow to implement and many Companies gave lip service but would shortcut at the workers expense, at every opportunity.

We did all of our own pipe end preparation at my last employer. Factory end prep was disgarded(cut off). For the Stainless and Carbon Steel pipe where a GTAW root was required, we Ground or torch cut a 37. 5* angle (measured from the face of the pipe. There is no land, the bevel was down to a sharp edge at the I. D. . The end prep for SMAW or GMAW was the same angle (according to the WPS) with a land. Small diameter/thinner wall pipe had a 3/32" land. Larger diameter/thicker wall pipe had a 1/8" land per WPS/ASME code. There was a difference in the natural gas industry in that they used API-1104 code. Pipe end prep was a 30* angle measured from the face and what ever land you were comfortable with, a very loose interpretation and WPS (1982)!

 

[DJW]

GregH they claimed at the time the submerged arc used two 600 amp Lincolns to reach 1200 amps, the one I used was a single 1400 amp, forgot size of wire but small compared to stick. The roll of welding wire was manageable, probably 40 lbs as it rode on the control carriage. The arc was hidden under the granulated flux. One could put a 1/2 bead on the underside of a 1/2 inch plate from the top. The process was in it's infancy at that shop, so it was feel your way along. The Lincoln representative was pretty well on call, but as he said there was much to learn for all. Things worked out well, but after a time porosity appeared on the top surface of the weld, the weld was sound just surface appearance. To solve the problem I filled the hopper with new flux out of a sealed bag, but no change. Lincoln's man came down, he tried different heats but results the same. He left and I reasoned the weld was being deposited and travel too fast to allow the gasses to fully boil out of the molten metal, so I solved the problem by slowing the travel, it worked but the weld was a little higher and wider. I had the superintendent to view it, he OKed it but I was unsatisfied, but that was the tail end of the order. Some months a new welding foreman came from Bethlem steel, and I told him of the problem and he was familiar with the process, but said he would have had to be there to check amperage, volts and speed for a remedy. All the changes in current, I and the Lincoln man tried were unsuccessful. Trouble was it was inconsistent. (the worst kind of troubles) The slower speed solved the problem but at the cost of longer times and excess weld. The flux carried the most of the filler metal, the wire established the arc, as flux cored mig wire.

 

[DJW]

When I was running the submerged arc, I asked if the use of inert shielding gas could be used, owing to the porosity, then the welding wire just the heat source much as a carbon but included to add to the weld, Lincoln said there was some use in specialized industries, but under almost laboratory conditions and not suitable for open air shop operations.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

This is GTAW on 2" Schedule 40 Stainless Steel 304L, 6G position. Right/Left hand progression.

Wow! That's got to be the nicest thick walled stainless pipe weldment I've ever seen. Like others said - looks like a robot did it!



Beers,



Matt

 

[DValentine]

Here is a horizontal submerged arc. This was with Chicago Bridge and Iron.

 

[GHarman]

Submerged Arc

Hey Dave, Nice shot of the Submerged Arc in use. The hangers for the track, are they removed and the welds repaired, or are the hangers multiple purpose? GregH

 

[DValentine]

This is what we were building. We used a different one on the flat butt welds inside the can sections. Each can was made from four sections, one inch thick with 1/8 SS clad on the inside. Each can section was 34 foot long, 24 wide and weighed in a 60 tons. Two can sections made up one coker drum, along with the bases. In the middle picture, the left hand can looking piece is actually a furnace we built to stress relieve the can sections.

 

[DValentine]

I like this first shot, shows the clad in one of the can sections. The crane is a 18000 Manitowac with 250 foot of stick. The top of the concrete structure was 70 foot off the ground
Here is a picture of one of the pieces cooking. The shot is through a burner hole. The pieces were brought up to 1200 degrees, held for a hour then cooled slowly.

Here is the final assembly. We didn't do any of the piping or Ironwork. So over all our piece of the pie was small.

 

[GHarman]

Thanks Again

Wow! That's got to be the nicest thick walled stainless pipe weldment I've ever seen. Like others said - looks like a robot did it!



Beers,



Matt

Thanks for the complement. However, if the picture had better clarity, you could plainly see the flaws. Like I said, they were just practice. There were Weldors, both Male and Female that could out weld me. It was very Competitive, but I just did the best I could each time. Didn't worry about the other guy. My goal was to do a job with no repairs. The job was done right. Only had one repair (of my welds) over many years of welding. That being said, some foremen did not like me cause I was slow nor did I drink Beer with them after hours. GregH

 

[rbattelle]

Hey DValentine, is that you running the submerged arc machine in that first pic?

Can't believe you built that huge oven, but I suppose there's no other way to do stress relief.

Ryan

 

[DValentine]

Hangers removed. The boss said tack them to the shell, with preheat. We almost lost the girth welder, 'cause I didn't put much weld on the clips holding the angle. Hummmm. DJW this machine was run off a 600 Miller made for the Bridge. I didn't run it. We brought it out to catch up on the Horizontal welding as we were fighting bad shots with the stick, running 7/32 rod. The Sub arc made about as much repair work as the stick. It was just tough... . wind, weather, hard to preheat the material. The job started in Aug of 06 and finished Aug of 07. The project as a whole has some major setbacks. The concrete structure had to be redone... . yes redone.

A lot of our welding was done in the winter months. I learned a lot on this job. Very different than welding boiler tubes with 3/32 rod.



Snow on half a can section.



One of the burners in the furnace.



A 6 foot 2 inch man standing next to the 18000 as they put it together.

 

[GHarman]

More really excellent pictures of the 'Real World". Thanks Dave. BTW, Was that YOU on the Sub' Arc? GregH

 

[DValentine]

No that is not me. I don't have any pictures of me on that job.

 

[Coalsmoke]

Thought I would keep the ball rolling. This is GTAW on 2" Schedule 40 Stainless Steel 304L, 6G position. Right/Left hand progression. For those of you that are not familiar with a pipe welding test. The welds were cut out of two pieces of pipe, welded together. There is no access to the inside. The weld is made entirely from the outside. Stainless Steel requires an Argon Purge. These were practice welds, preparing for a certification test, about 18 years ago. Time really flies:-laf. Here they are. Greg

Really nice looking work Greg. Good to see them sugar free

 

[GHarman]

Sugar Free, Preheat, Stainless Cladding

Coalsmoke, "Sugar Free is the way they gotta Be"Oo. !



Dave Valentine, What was the preheat requirements on the 1" shell to weld the brackets? Who did the Stainless Steel Cladding? Did the S. S. Cladding interfere with the Sub' arc process. Did you have to do a seperate process inside to join the S. S. Cladding? Thanks, GregH

 

[GHarman]

Stainless/Sugar

For those of you that have not welded Stainless Steel, a method of isolating the molten puddle from the atmosphere is necessary. Purging with Argon, Flux cored filler wire or other method of sealing the weld from the atmosphere, until it cools to a non-critical temperature is necessary. Sugar is actually oxidized metallurgical elements that make a steel alloy part of the Stainless family. Dont remember all the elements, books are packed away, however, they include Chrome and Nickel. Stainless Steel Alloys are generally considered to contain 50% Iron. The rest is other alloying elements that create the Stainless Familys. They include, Austenitic (304L), Ferritic (409), Martinsetic (440A-C) and Precipitation Hardening. There are also Duplex Stainless Steels. Each grade has its purpose. There is no such thing as a "cheap grade" of Stainless Steel, just proper application. GregH

 

[DJW]

GregH years ago I went into a shop making food processing machines for the food industry, I started on the mild steel portion of machinery, then after a few months was given a stainless steel machine to build. Before starting work there I had worked in stainless in the sulfuric acid part of a plant. I learned there that 100% sulfuric acid is non corrosive and the main storage tanks were all mild steel, it's only when moisture is introduced that it becomes corrosive. A lot of the piping we used was sch. 80 chrome-molly and it was rust colored, I found out when I told the foreman that I couldn't cut it with the oxy-acy torch. He said it was chrome molly, I questioned him on it to the rust appearance, he said it depended on the amount of chrome it contained. We used an air-arc to cut and bevel the ends and stainless rod to wel the joints. When 150% flanges were used to connect the pipe to pumps etc, we'd stainless clad the inside bore so as no mild steel was exposed. It was good training as appearance was not critical as opposed to food machinery. The polished finish on a food machine could equal the fabrication cost of the machine, or finish accounted for 50% of the total cost. More on that food machinery plant plant later, and my own personal view of division of labor plus pay rate scales.

 

[DJW]

DValentine, on the horizontal submerged weld weld what a great picture, I have never seen anything like that. I was wondering, owing to gravity the arc or wire coming in from the side, horizontal, or bottom plate seam flat and not beveled, then wire coming in at an angle, and next weld laid partly on first sort of a split. The wire does have great penetration, the only one I used the pipe was gauge Corten, thus no preparation and tight seam and attain 100% penetration, the amperage was very high.