Hydrogen Generator for trucks

[BLarkman]

Jeff929

Sorry for my confusingreply . What I should have said is we now have mechanical engineers talking about hydrogen generators. The OSu professersays it won't work and Eldon is also a mechanical engineer, retired, installed it on his truck and he says it works!!! Thats what I should have said in the other post

bob

 

[moparguy]

Gary - K7GLD, I nominate you as the guy to build a unit and give us a report.



From my years of reading your post, I'm convinced you have the skills, time and from your comments on this thread, ya got the interest.



So, what do you say. Time to get cracking (pun intended) LOL.



RJR

 

[Matt400]

This is an interesting thread, its all good. While we are all dreaming & hoping, how about hooking up several high powered alternators coupled to A/C compressor clutches to the driveline?

A BPPS (brake pedal position sensor) would control how many of those clutches engauge. This way I can use 7000 pounds of already rolling mass to help slow me down while electrolyzing and save brake dust too!



I can then donate my PacBrake to a museum!

 

[betterthanstock]

This is an interesting thread, its all good. While we are all dreaming & hoping, how about hooking up several high powered alternators coupled to A/C compressor clutches to the driveline?

A BPPS (brake pedal position sensor) would control how many of those clutches engauge. This way I can use 7000 pounds of already rolling mass to help slow me down while electrolyzing and save brake dust too!



I can then donate my PacBrake to a museum!

I have thought about that one, might be patentable, or may be it already is.

You don't need clutches, as alternators running with no load are free turning.

Only one problem, you need to keep the gasses separate and at high pressure until you accelerate, or BOOM. Pumping raw hydrogen and oxygen into a hot exhaust is not only wasteful, but dangerous. And if it does ignite in the cylinders, it would be preignition (very hard on the engine, and would minimize the braking effect. ) Due to low efficiency of electrolysis, it would be better to just charge a capacitor and run an electric motor.

China already is testing some electric busses that run on supercapacitors. They charge up at each bus stop, just enough to hop to the next one. No batteries, or very small just for emergency use.

I think all electric hybrids will soon start using these supercaps.







On edit: I found this patent, and hundreds more:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...+ABST/engine&RS=ABST/hydrogen+AND+ABST/engine



So not only is it dangerous, but you may need to pay royalties/fines if you do make such a hybrid regenerative system, at least if anyone finds out about it. Honda and BMW are two firms that sell a limited number of Hydrogen powered cars, so I'd leave it to them to decide if they want that system. It's a little much for the weekend tinkerer.



There is also the hydraulic regenerative braking -accumulator, much easier to implement with hydrostatic transmission, but dangerous like a bomb.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Gary - K7GLD, I nominate you as the guy to build a unit and give us a report.



From my years of reading your post, I'm convinced you have the skills, time and from your comments on this thread, ya got the interest.



So, what do you say. Time to get cracking (pun intended) LOL.



RJR

Thanks for the vote of confidence... :-laf:-laf



But, while "proof" can sway the opinions and acceptance of the open-minded, it has RARELY, in my experience, changed the opinion of closed minds or that of guys who have been so openly critical and vocal as to NEVER admit they just MIGHT have been wrong - and lose face...



BUT, I am interested - and also mildly skeptical - and will wait to see what Eric provides for us - he hasn't rattled as many cages as I have in the past with controversial issues and test results, and his results are likely to be accepted far more quickly and easily than my own - I have NEVER known Eric to post or test anything with less than honesty and accuracy.



If nothing else, threads and experiments such as happening here, create interest, more experimentation, and keep the issue of alternate fuels and systems alive - perhaps enough of these type efforts WILL eventually stimulate a genuinely efficient system - already there have been serious advances in the materials and methods used in separating Hydrogen and Oxygen from ordinary water, as done by professional research labs working with these systems - and with FAR better funding and equipment than we are doing in our back yards.



THEY must see some hope of eventual success - "Laws pf Physics" or not, to be continuing research down this path. Instead of fighting among ourselves as to what can, or cannot be done in science as we CURRENTLY know it, lets just hope that improved methods and materials will eventually provide a path AROUND what we have long regarded as "impossible"...

 

[DPellegrin]

Gary K7GLD-

I hope as this test progresses that the data generated is valid. By valid I mean that variables are controlled or at least accounted for. My suggestion is that you consult an Society of Automotive Engineers technical paper and observe the format that is used. I think you will find that objectively testing this hydrogen generator is not so easy and still have confidence that the test data leads to the right conclusion. For example, an energy balance must be performed on the engine. That is all fuel and energy inputs and outputs must be accounted for. I'm sure you will agree that this requires more expertise than the average mechanic is capable of.

 

[EricBu12]

hey guys,. .

Dont have the system yet. . it might be at home. . Going to Glacier Nat. Park tomorrow. Right now I am at Leavenworth, WA which the whole town is decorated like a german town... Even the local Mc Donalds.

I will make a new Thread when I get the hydrogen system installed and after I do the tests. . I have a pretty good baseline on the towing mileage. around 10-12 depending on terrain.

My solo mileage is around 18-20. I coast alot when I go to work where it is downhill. . .

So Look for the new thread later on.

 

[moparguy]

Eric, what are you thinking. You've got to get that that thing installed and tested. Glacier can wait.



LOL, enjoy the trip. We visited Glacier a few years ago. Saw 11" snow at the east entrance (St. Marys ?) in mid August. Earliest snow in decades, was really nice. It's in the low 100s with lots of humidity here in ARK. , I'm jealous.



Enjoy.



RJR

 

[Matt400]

You don't need clutches, as alternators running with no load are free turning.

Good point, just cut the load demand with a single switch to keep it simple.

Only one problem, you need to keep the gasses separate and at high pressure until you accelerate

Hrmm had not thought about that one. I suppose the systems out there now (I have never really looked) simply flow when ever the engine is running and are such low producers there is not that kind of issue.



Why high pressure though?

Don't laugh now but. . I was looking at this web page trying to get a grasp of what folks are trying and began to wonder why you couldn't capture the separate gases possibly in a plastic 5 gal water jug like you see on water coolers. Then vent the jug through a line, NC solenoid and orifice to the turbo inlet.

The alternators driveline driven would be cut out of the circuit anytime there is throttle input so electrolyzing works when coasting, descending hills & braking to supply the jugs.



Imagine what that would look like in the back of the truck!!!:-laf



But hey... the dude in that link is using just a 9v battery so I am thinking that little 9v cant supply much amperage and he even mentions series connecting them for much more Hydrogen output. So now I am thinking. . if more volts is gonna do a better job- couldn't you step up the volts to 70 to 110 DC with one of those HID ballast units?

 

[BLarkman]

I am confused all the talk of tanks and mixing this and that. The unit I saw consist of 2-6& 10 jars in containers, hoses running to a manifold and a hose going to air intake before turbo so there is no pressure or collector. The electrical comes from an invertor to run the aquatim air pump. That was all there was. Are we talking aboutdirrerent systems::

bob

 

[Matt400]

The unit I saw consist of 2-6& 10 jars in containers

Where did you see that Bob?

 

[BLarkman]

There is a fellow here in Lebanon who made one and I have talked to him as well as visiting him and seeing how it was made. I also took some pictures. see my prior posts on page 4

 

[betterthanstock]

I am confused all the talk of tanks and mixing this and that. ... . Are we talking aboutdirrerent systems::

bob

Yeah. I was discussing Matts use as a regenerative braking. If you want to get the free energy while braking, you will generate a lot of gases ( hydrogen and oxygen), so you need to keep them in storage until you accelerate to burn them in the engine. Hence the need to keep under some pressure, and separating H from O molecules, or you get Ka-Boom a hydrogen bomb (not radioactive, but it's actually like the space shuttle exhaust from the main tank, so if you remember the Challenger, you get the idea... )

 

[Matt400]

separating H from O molecules, or you get Ka-Boom a hydrogen bomb

Of course only if there is an ignition source but on that note. . I see systems out there like this one that collect both gasses and send them together through a single feed hose:

#ad




Seems to me this could be dangerous as you and also this site pointed out here.

In the illustration the gas is sent through a water container as a safety fuse in case of an ignition source. This would prevent the generator from blowing up.

#ad




Eric's system appears to have separate hoses for each gas which would eliminate the water reservoir fuse.

 

[betterthanstock]

more reading and pictures here:



H2O - The Mystery, Art, and Science of Water: The Chemistry of Water: Electrolysis

 

[Matt400]

On systems that collect & distribute the gasses together (one hose) it seems to me they would react with each other in the hose and simply change back to water giving you water injection vs a hydrogen / oxygen mix.

 

[JKloppe]

Of course only if there is an ignition source but on that note. . I see systems out there like this one that collect both gasses and send them together through a single feed hose:

#ad




Seems to me this could be dangerous as you and also this site pointed out here.

In the illustration the gas is sent through a water container as a safety fuse in case of an ignition source. This would prevent the generator from blowing up.

#ad




Eric's system appears to have separate hoses for each gas which would eliminate the water reservoir fuse.

The top picture will introduce KOH into the intake, I dont want that in my intercooler or engine.



The system I am getting involved with makes 120 L per hr with 30A, or 60L on 15A. I am no expert yet, I am going to WA for training.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Guys "concerned" about "explosions" in the use of HHO systems as discussed here, are sorta grasping at straws on the outer limits of objection. Yeah - I heard all those SAME fearsome comments and dire predictions way back when discussing propane injection for these trucks.



The actual VOLUME of HHO involved in systems we're discussing are rather low in normal use - and no more "explosive" than the Propane systems already in use by a significant base of users - I ran one on my '91 truck - and managed to both USE it, and eventually sell it - all before it "blew up like the Hindenburg" - or Columbia... :-laf



Ever hear of a Propane injection system "blowing up"? OH, I'm sure some rare combination of stupidity and accident CAN make it happen - but it's hardly a regular occurrence - and truthfully, I've never even heard of such an incident.



The single difficulty in these setups, is getting ENOUGH HHO generation to be beneficial - not an overproduction that floods the intake to seriously explosive levels - shucks, if these were all THAT efficient, we could capture, compress, and bottle it, much like we do Propane and similar fuel gasses...



We'd need considerably higher concentrations, along with significant contributors for combustion in the intake tract for any explosion to occur - reasonable discussion and speculation about these systems is fine - but witch hunts and "ghost and goblin stories" are something else... :-laf:-laf



OOOoooooooo - ah, scared ya!

 

[BLarkman]

EricBu12

A question for you? Which system did you pick and why that one. The only oneI have seen is the one with the mason jars and an airpump and I understand they want $97 for books. many thanks

bob

 

[Hescomp]

Bob,

Don't buy the books. Google Hydrogen generator or HHO Forums. They have free plans and free info out there. And they are running them on Gassers and Diesels. They can even direct you to fully assembled units. The ones Eric's working with look to be setup and priced well. Just want to see how good they perform. Most things I've read is 1 liter per minute per liter of engine is a good goal to improve mileage. That with alot of work with the electronics and patience.



Gary,

When the generator blows from under the hood (when contained in a tupperware type container) It sounds like a massive tire blowout! But it did not hurt anything in the truck.

A weld let loose and arced inside the homemade unit. OOPS



Eric,

I'm anxious for your results!!!

Have a great trip!