My truck is heavy...

[HBarlow]

Kenny,

I'm going to spend the time to educate you. Here's the first quote from the Federal DOT rules and regulations from DOT's website (and my own personal handbook):

General

§383. 3 Applicability.
(a) The rules in this part apply to every person who operates a commercial motor vehicle (CMV) in interstate, foreign, or intrastate commerce, to all employers of such persons, and to all States.
(b) The exceptions contained in §390. 3(f) of this subchapter do not apply to this part. The employers and drivers identified in §390. 3(f) must comply with the requirements of this part, unless otherwise provided in this section.

As you can see, part a applies to every driver who operates in interstate or intrastate commerce and to every state! In other words, NY cannot make up their own.

 

[HBarlow]

§383. 5 Definitions.
As used in this part:

(I deleted some portions which are not relevant to our discussion)


Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle— (a) Has a gross combination weight rating of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds); or
(b) Has a gross vehicle weight rating of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001 pounds or more); or
(c) Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; or
(d) Is of any size and is used in the transportation of hazardous materials as defined in this section.

 

[HBarlow]

Requirements

§355. 25 Adopting and enforcing compatible laws and regulations.
(a) General. No State shall have in effect or enforce any State law or regulation pertaining to commercial motor vehicle safety in interstate commerce which the Administrator finds to be incompatible with the provisions of the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations.
(b) New State Requirements. No State shall implement any changes to a law or regulation which makes that or any other law or regulation incompatible with a provision of the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations.
(c) Enforcement. To enforce compliance with this section, the Administrator will initiate a rulemaking proceeding under part 389 of this subchapter to declare the incompatible State law or regulation pertaining to commercial motor vehicle safety unenforceable in interstate commerce.


<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="98%" align=center><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%" colSpan=2><TABLE width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="50%" align=left> 355. 23</TD><TD width="50%" align=right>Appendix A</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top colSpan=2></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width="100%" colSpan=2><TABLE style="MARGIN-TOP: 15px; FLOAT: right; MARGIN-LEFT: 3px" id=Table4 class=rellink border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=120><TBODY><TR><TD class=rlhdr>Related Links </TD></TR><TR align=left><TD align=left>
[/LIST]
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><INPUT id=ctl00_ctl00_MainContentArea_page_content_place_holder_hdnKeyword type=hidden name=ctl00$ctl00$MainContentArea$page_content_place_holder$hdnKeyword> Requirements

§355. 25 Adopting and enforcing compatible laws and regulations. (a) General. No State shall have in effect or enforce any State law or regulation pertaining to commercial motor vehicle safety in interstate commerce which the Administrator finds to be incompatible with the provisions of the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations.
(b) New State Requirements. No State shall implement any changes to a law or regulation which makes that or any other law or regulation incompatible with a provision of the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations.
(c) Enforcement. To enforce compliance with this section, the Administrator will initiate a rulemaking proceeding under part 389 of this subchapter to declare the incompatible State law or regulation pertaining to commercial motor vehicle safety unenforceable in interstate commerce

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="98%" align=center><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%" colSpan=2><TABLE width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="50%" align=left>355. 23</TD><TD width="50%" align=right>Appendix A </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top colSpan=2></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width="100%" colSpan=2><TABLE style="MARGIN-TOP: 15px; FLOAT: right; MARGIN-LEFT: 3px" id=Table4 class=rellink border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=120><TBODY><TR><TD class=rlhdr>Related Links </TD></TR><TR align=left><TD align=left>
[/LIST]
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Requirements

§355. 25 Adopting and enforcing compatible laws and regulations. (a) General. No State shall have in effect or enforce any State law or regulation pertaining to commercial motor vehicle safety in interstate commerce which the Administrator finds to be incompatible with the provisions of the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations.
(b) New State Requirements. No State shall implement any changes to a law or regulation which makes that or any other law or regulation incompatible with a provision of the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations.
(c) Enforcement. To enforce compliance with this section, the Administrator will initiate a rulemaking proceeding under part 389 of this subchapter to declare the incompatible State law or regulation pertaining to commercial motor vehicle safety unenforceable in interstate commerce

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

[HBarlow]

§390. 21 Marking of CMVs.
[Change Notice]
[New Text]


Editor''s Note: Paragraph 390. 21(a) below is effective until June 17, 2009.

(a) General. Every self-propelled CMV, as defined in §390. 5, subject to subchapter B of this chapter must be marked as specified in paragraphs (b), (c), and (d) of this section.

[Change Notice]
[New Text]
(b) Nature of marking. The marking must display the following information:
(b)(1) The legal name or a single trade name of the motor carrier operating the self-propelled CMV, as listed on the motor carrier identification report (Form MCS-150) and submitted in accordance with §390. 19.


Editor''s Note: Paragraph 390. 21(b)(2) below is effective until June 17, 2009.

(2) The motor carrier identification number issued by the FMCSA, preceded by the letters “USDOT”.

*******************************************************************
Note this does not exempt commerical motor vehicles used in intrastate commerce only so my initial post was also correct.

Signs displaying company name and USDOT number are required on all CMVs.

The state of NY may or may not enforce this but what NY does has no bearing on SC.

 

[HBarlow]

Kenny,

Everything I have cut and pasted is available to any person who wishes to educate himself on Federal DOT rules and regulations . . . which also are each state's DOT rules and regulations.

 

[kenny61]

Harvey I never claimed to know the federal code or other state law. I specifically stated that I did not know and that I was quoting NY Law. With that said If KLauber was to drive his truck Into NY he may be in Violation if he did not have a CDL.

KLauber asked a question I posted some information. My information is 100% correct in the way I presented it. The information you are giving may get somebodies vehicle impounded in NY.

And yes your rule A states it applies in all states however you are ignoring an important fact nothing in your federal rules is being changed by NYS law All the federal regulations regarding the license are the same. In other words anyone operating with a cdl will be operating legally in NY.

What you fail to realize is that a truck in KLaubers situation is not operating under federal guidelines (it is less than 26k) as a commercial vehicle so it does not fall under its "protection"

So NY can require its operator to have a CDL just as some states can require and are requiring travel trailer endorsements.

This also explains the contradictions in the above laws I posted as I now realize that one set applies to federal commercial vehicles and some apply to NY commercial vehicles

I hope you and others here understand what I am saying as I am not an eloquent writer such as yourself. But I assure you I am 100% correct in what I said and how it applies to NY.

 

[kenny61]

Recreational vehicles are exempt but some states have established and require a Class A operator license to ensure higher levels of knowledge and skill.

This is basically what NY has done but instead of a "class A" It is requiring a CDL





Also regarding your dot# copy and paste. Again what you aree talking about is federal regulations for what the fed requires for a fed classified cmv

KLaubers truck does not meet the criteria so again your federal regs do not apply.

 

[KLauber]

Harvey is correct even with less interstate experience. When I won my national safety award, I was operating the truck as OO through a lease with the truck owner. I was paid a % of the tariff, generally about 35%. Had to pay for fuel, permits, labor, etc. I've been through way more than 100 scales and too too many inspections to recall. The only time I was busted was for a sticker on the tractor that was overlooked, I think it was at the scales on the west side of St. Louis. I remember waiting for the HQ to phone in the temp permit and watched a hapless driver break his driveshaft while trying to slide his fifth wheel.



Harvey is also correct I will only be intrastate in SC and do not require a company name or a DOT number on my truck. The work is secured through the helpful SC bureaucrats for contaminated sites in SC, there is no need to consider crossing any borders. But I knew that already. The regulation info is extremely helpful and useful and hats off to HB and Kenny for the informed repartee.



Ken

 

[HBarlow]

Harvey I never claimed to know the federal code or other state law. I specifically stated that I did not know and that I was quoting NY Law. With that said If KLauber was to drive his truck Into NY he may be in Violation if he did not have a CDL.

KLauber asked a question I posted some information. My information is 100% correct in the way I presented it. The information you are giving may get somebodies vehicle impounded in NY.

And yes your rule A states it applies in all states however you are ignoring an important fact nothing in your federal rules is being changed by NYS law All the federal regulations regarding the license are the same. In other words anyone operating with a cdl will be operating legally in NY.

What you fail to realize is that a truck in KLaubers situation is not operating under federal guidelines (it is less than 26k) as a commercial vehicle so it does not fall under its "protection"

So NY can require its operator to have a CDL just as some states can require and are requiring travel trailer endorsements.

This also explains the contradictions in the above laws I posted as I now realize that one set applies to federal commercial vehicles and some apply to NY commercial vehicles

I hope you and others here understand what I am saying as I am not an eloquent writer such as yourself. But I assure you I am 100% correct in what I said and how it applies to NY.

Kenny,

You are using a liberal's techniques for argument.

Lauber WOULD NOT be in violation if he drove his rig in NY w/o a CDL because DOT does not require a CDL therefore NY cannot require one.

Your information is 100% INCORRECT because Lauber didn't ask a single question about driving in NY. NY information is irrelevant where. His vehicles are registered and operated in SC.

You apparently didn't know before this thread that NY law is not USDOT regulations.

Once again you are wrong. If NY tries to require a CDL in the case of a combination vehicle weighing or rated at 26k w/trailer weighing or rated above 10k NY WOULD be attempting to overrule USDOT regulations and CANNOT do that.

Yes, if Lauber is operating his rig in NY he would be operating a CMV and would be subject to USDOT regulations, not NY laws.

As the first cut and pastes I provided states, the USDOT regulations apply to all CMVs whether interstate, foreign, intrastate, and also apply to all states. Translation: NY's legislature can adopt but cannot modify or supercede USDOT regulations.

Eloquent or ineleguent writing is not the issue here. Facts and interpretation of rules and regulations are the issue. All you have to do is admit you were mistaken or are not familiar with CMV regulations and the discussion will end.

 

[KLauber]

Free for the taking....

This is basically what NY has done but instead of a "class A" It is requiring a CDL



Also regarding your dot# copy and paste. Again what you aree talking about is federal regulations for what the fed requires for a fed classified cmv

KLaubers truck does not meet the criteria so again your federal regs do not apply.

My last trucking license was for a CLass A drivers license in NC. I stapled it to the wall of a bar in Hyder, Alaska along with 5000 other driver's licenses. It's probably still there... .



Ken

 

[HBarlow]

This is basically what NY has done but instead of a "class A" It is requiring a CDL


Also regarding your dot# copy and paste. Again what you aree talking about is federal regulations for what the fed requires for a fed classified cmv
KLaubers truck does not meet the criteria so again your federal regs do not apply.

Kenny,

NY may be able to require a CDL for a NY tow truck operator and may have obtained a waiver from the USDOT for that BUT CANNOT require a CDL for me with a TX license (although I have a CDL A) and registration and cannot require one of KLauber with SC license and registration.

Standardization and uniformity of laws is what USDOT regulations are about. Stop and think about what it would be like for an interstate trucker/trucking company hauling commercial loads across all 48 contiguous states and Canada if every pissant state legislature was allowed to create and enforce their own petty rules and regulations for CMVs operating in or through their states. Interstate transportation would be halted immediately.

That is why there is one set of rules and regulations and they are established by USDOT.

Texas and several other states recently enacted new rules for Texas drivers with Texas licenses operating large, heavy motorhomes and towing large heavy fifth wheel trailers registered in Texas. However, Texas cannot and does not make any attempt to enforce their regulations pertaining to a Class A operator's license on drivers licensed in other states operating similar vehicles registered in their home states.

Part of the USDOT code includes a reciprocity clause. The reciprocity provision means that if a driver is legal in his home state, even if not meeting local requirements in the state he is operating in, he is considered legal in the host state.

KLauber's truck and trailer combination is precisely what is defined by the definition of a commercial motor vehicle (CMV) and the USDOT regulations absolutely apply to his vehicle.

 

[kenny61]

Harvey you are wrong. NY Law is in Black and White. My logic is not Liberal logic it is based on 2 decades of experience in Law Enforcement and is backed up by convictions.

Yes I realize KLauber was asking about info in SC and the topic as usual got a little spread out. I'm sure someone here will find my information informative at some point.

1. "Commercial motor vehicle" shall mean a motor vehicle or
combination of vehicles having a gross combination weight rating of more
than ten thousand pounds used in commerce to transport property and it
shall include a tow truck with a gross vehicle weight rating of at least
eighty-six hundred pounds.

As stated before KLaubers truck is not a commercial vehicle under fed law that is why you are wrong. It is the same reason my truck is registered as a commercial vehicle in NY as required. Using your logic MY truck is illegally and improperly registered as a commercial vehicle.


So to sum this up:

I'm right and your wrong regarding the laws in NY.
Regarding Klauber asking about SC You are right.

I'm sorry I tried to post a little information that may save somebody a few thousand dollars in legal and related fees down the road. And apologize to the members that they had to witness your childlike behavior.

Goodluck with your truck Ken and if any members are interested in laws regarding their trucks in NY feel free to pm me as I will no longer discuss this issue on this thread.

 

[kenny61]

Kenny,



NY may be able to require a CDL for a NY tow truck operator and may have obtained a waiver from the USDOT for that BUT CANNOT require a CDL for me with a TX license (although I have a CDL A) and registration and cannot require one of KLauber with SC license and registration.



Standardization and uniformity of laws is what USDOT regulations are about. Stop and think about what it would be like for an interstate trucker/trucking company hauling commercial loads across all 48 contiguous states and Canada if every pissant state legislature was allowed to create and enforce their own petty rules and regulations for CMVs operating in or through their states. Interstate transportation would be halted immediately.



That is why there is one set of rules and regulations and they are established by USDOT.



Texas and several other states recently enacted new rules for Texas drivers with Texas licenses operating large, heavy motorhomes and towing large heavy fifth wheel trailers registered in Texas. However, Texas cannot and does not make any attempt to enforce their regulations pertaining to a Class A operator's license on drivers licensed in other states operating similar vehicles registered in their home states.



Part of the USDOT code includes a reciprocity clause. The reciprocity provision means that if a driver is legal in his home state, even if not meeting local requirements in the state he is operating in, he is considered legal in the host state.



KLauber's truck and trailer combination is precisely what is defined by the definition of a commercial motor vehicle (CMV) and the USDOT regulations absolutely apply to his vehicle.

Harvey to be fair I will attempt to verify the reciprocity agreement and will post back my results. FYI I know for fact that all states do not honor all other states "regulations" There are specific sections in our law that states when other states rules may or may not be followed. There are also numerous DMV directives that say who's agreement are valid and who's are not. I am sorry to get frustrated and show it but when giving out advice that may cost another member big bucks and legal problems. It is best to err on the side of caution. I know I would feel bad if I told someone something was ok and then they had a trip ruined. An example of reciprocity that is not would be pulling double trailers. Its ok in other states but is not allowed in NY regardless if you are from a legal state. I hope to make a few phone calls tomorrow and will post back my results

 

[kenny61]

Harvey your original post is so good I must share it with the eagerly awaiting readers

Dear kenny61,



HBarlow has just replied to a thread you have subscribed to entitled - My truck is heavy... - in the Towing, Hauling and RV Forum forum of TDR Roundtable.



This thread is located at:

https://www.turbodieselregister.com...-rv-forum/220641-my-truck-heavy-new-post.html



Here is the message that has just been posted:

***************



---Quote (Originally by HBarlow)---

*§383. 5 Definitions. *

As used in this part:



(I deleted some portions which are not relevant to our discussion)





*Commercial motor vehicle (CMV)* means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle— (a) Has a gross combination weight rating of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds); or

(b) Has a gross vehicle weight rating of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001 pounds or more); or

(c) Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; or

(d) Is of any size and is used in the transportation of hazardous materials as defined in this section.

---End Quote---



Kenny,



You continue to try to win an argument by posting wrong information. I don't give a hoot if you have 20 years in law enforcement or you are a freshly hired meter maid. You don't kwow CMV law and don't know what you are talking about. You are still wrong and are still trying to use sneaky liberal debate techniques to win even when even you must realize you are wrong.



Please read the USDOT definition provided above. It is directly cut and pasted from the ONLINE USDOT Regulations.



Here it is again!!!



*Commercial motor vehicle (CMV)* means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle— (a) Has a gross combination weight rating of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds);



KLauber's rig is a combination vehicle . . . that means truck and trailer.



KLauber's rig is used in commerce. He uses that truck and trailer combination to earn his living.



KLauber's rig is used to transport property, his own property which the photograph and his text indicate is come combination of poly storage tanks, a generator, and an electric pump among other items.



KLauber's truck and trailer combination weigh less than 26,000 lbs. accoring to his statements and the trailer weighs more than 10,000 lbs. (Note, even is his trailer was completely empty and had nothing on the flatbed it is a trailer with a GVWR of 14,000 lbs. DOT enforcement is based on actual or rated weight).



Now, please explain to us who are eagerly waiting why I am wrong and KLauber's combination vehicle is NOT a CMV.

***************

Guess you answered your own question but in case you didn't It's because Klaubers Truck has a GCWR of less than 26,000lbs you also confused the vehicle weight of his truck vs the GVWR or GCWR, IM not really sure what you were thinking.



I guess it was easier to edit your post and talk about reciprocity than admitting you were wrong. As I stated I will look into the reciprocity, but let me educate you just a little more with a little knowledge even a meter maid would probably understand. When it comes to reciprocity issues it often requires the officer to have knowledge of the other states laws for it to matter on the street. If the officer does not know you will be providing certified copies of your states laws to the judge to prove your case. The only satisfaction you will receive is a not guilty verdict. The loss of time, use of your vehicle, lawyers fees and impound fees will all be on you. Further more after reading SC license laws since you can not operate a commercial motor vehicle with a non cdl license. Reciprocity would not apply because in NY it is a commercial vehicle. If we go by your wrong definition that it is a CMV than KLauber would be operating it illegally in SC. So either way you are wrong using your interpretation of the law.

Driver's License Classes



Regular (non-commercial) driver's licenses are issued in the following classes depending on the type and intended use of the vehicle. Click the following link if you are interested in Commercial Driver Licenses (CDL).

Class D Passenger vehicles and all non-commercial vehicles that do not exceed 26,000 pounds gross vehicle weight.

The only way the example KLauber gave could legally operate his vehicle in NY is that if NY honored his vehicle as being non commercial when he is lugging all his commercial stuff around. You could lie and just say you bought the equipment and you are transporting it back home to your shop. But we were talking about what is legal not how to get out of an impound





Your information was incorrect and you know it that's why you changed your post. Your refusal to admit a simple mistake could potentially put other members into legal hot water. Further I don't understand the liberal references in your post. I am giving you 20 years worth of experience of interpreting the law not "sneaky liberal debate techniques"

 

[GAmes]

1. "Commercial motor vehicle" shall mean a motor vehicle or

combination of vehicles having a gross combination weight rating of more

than ten thousand pounds used in commerce to transport property and it

shall include a tow truck with a gross vehicle weight rating of at least

eighty-six hundred pounds.



As stated before KLaubers truck is not a commercial vehicle under fed law that is why you are wrong. It is the same reason my truck is registered as a commercial vehicle in NY as required. Using your logic MY truck is illegally and improperly registered as a commercial vehicle.

Kenny, you quoted the law that states Laubers rig is a CMV (it has a GCWR over 10,000), then proclaim it is not. The 10,000 pound figure separates those who must have a DOT physical (like me) from those who do not, like a taxi driver. Your logic is that a vehicle GVWR or GCWR has to exceed 26,000 to qualify as a CMV under fed law. Not true! I operate my duelly as a CMV transporting RVs. I display a company name and USDOT numbers and am required to stop at weigh staions and ports of entry. I DO NOT have a CDL and am not required to have one as long as the GCWR of my pickup and the trailer I am pulling is 26,000 or less. It makes no difference what the GVWR of the trailer is as long as it does not exceed 15,500 because the GVWR of my pickup is 10,500. I can, and have, driven through NY with no fear of violating NY law, because the USDOT law is the same. How your truck is registered has no bearing on the issue. You do not use it commercially, do not have a DOT med card, do not have a log book and do not stop at scales, either in or out of your state. NY just happens to stamp the word "commercial" on your plate, that does not make you a CMV. I, on the other hand, am operating a CMV and it does not have "commercial" stamped on the license plate because my state has decided that "truck" applies to all pickups, be it a 1/4 ton Datsun or a 3500 duelly, or a 26,000 pound box truck. However, if it was not being used commercially I would not be required to stop at weigh stations, even though the sign says "All Trucks". Your lack of understanding is why each state has a commercial vehicle enforcement division, aka DOT. Texas has trained highway patrol officers that enforce USMCSA regs. Some states enforce them through their Dept of Trans, but most use state police. What they have in common is special training. In other words, to get a USMCSA insp requires a trained cop because nothing is more dangerous than an untrained guy with a badge and a gun.

 

[kenny61]

I've decided to send a letter to DMV to get an answer it will take months but I promise to post it regardless of if I am wrong or right.
With that said our DOT enforcement has been impounding vehicles over 10k with no cdl and issuing tickets, I am friends with a local tow truck company and he does the impounds

 

[KLauber]

Gettin the right info

This dust-up has me unsure of the laws of me own state! Everyone pipe-down until I do three things tomorrow:

1). Get new brake pads and rotors turned (if they need it) at 8:30.

2). Go back to the big DMV office (not the little satellite office) and have the manager or senior mgr give me the straight poop.

3). Stop by Transport Police office and get their interpretation.



I'll post the results hopefully by the end of the day.



Ken



PS I wont have the trailer hooked up tomorrow!

 

[kenny61]

Smart move not to go there with the trailer! As said I will try to get a written decision on the subject as well. If everyone takes the time to read the line at the bottom of my signature you will now understand why it is there. To be honest I wish I had my book in front of me, The one thing that Harvey is 100% correct about is what he called my cut and paste of the law. I find it very difficult to read on the computer because it only gives a small section and you must go back and forth and can not get the whole thing on the screen at the same time. My eyes are actually starting to burn so I must stop but this is off the NYSDOT web site regarding CMV

Commercial Driver's License Information System (CDLIS)

The CDLIS enables the States to exchange information about the driving records and driver's licenses of CMV drivers. This helps assure that only one license is issued to a driver and that drivers currently disqualified are prevented from obtaining a CDL. Employers have access to the CDLIS clearinghouse through their State's vehicle licensing agency.
Vehicles Requiring Commercial Driver's Licenses

Drivers must hold CDLs if they operate in interstate, intrastate, or foreign commerce and drive a vehicle:

* With a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) or Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) of at least 26,001 pounds, whichever is greater, or a lesser GVWR or GVW the Secretary of Transportation prescribes by regulation, but not less than a GVWR of 10,001 pounds; or
* Designed to transport at least 16 passengers including the driver; or
* Transporting a quantity of hazardous materials requiring placarding.

Somebody tell me what that mumbo jumbo means. I think it gives NYS the right to require a cdl for vehicle with a gvwr or 10,001

good night all

 

[HBarlow]

Kenny,

I deleted my last post last night because I realized that continuing to state the same things and offer the same evidence, US DOT regulations, to support my position was not going to convince you and was probably only embarrasing you and causing you to become even more stubborn. So I deleted it and figured I'd drop it.

I was hoping my friend and fellow RV transporter Gary Ames was home and would read this and enter the discussion. He did and, of course, agrees with me as I knew he would. Both of us have had this or a similar discussion in the TDR forums before. And, I might add, we always win the argument!

Gary and I and several other TDR members who post either are or were commercial RV transporters for several years each. Gary is still hauling. Each of us has racked up several hundred thousand miles hauling trailers for hire across all 48 states and Canada under the watchful eye of DOT officers in most of the states. We have each been checked hundreds of times at ports of entry and weigh scales across the country. We aren't lawyers or even LEOs but we know the law! We know DOT regulations better than ordinary traffic cops do I can assure you.

Most of us started off with only ordinary operator's licenses and operated legally throughout the US and Canada without problems as long as the total of our truck's GVWR and the GVWR of the trailer we were pulling did not exceed 26,000 lbs. The law is based on actual or rated weight. Many of the drivers, like GAmes, still haul with an ordinary operator's license. After a year on the road I came home to Texas and got a CDL class A because I was working for an RV transport company that frequently assigned me trailers with GVWRs that, when added to the 11,500 GVWR of my then '06 Ram, would have put me into CDL territory and subject to a large fine and impound of the trailer I was pulling.

Your cut and paste of NY law above is not even applicable to our discussion because it deals only with a single vehicle not a combination vehicle. It does grant the NY SofT the authority to require a CDL for a light truck-based tow truck with an actual or rated weight of 10k or above although not a tow truck with a GVWR under 10,000 lbs. In my opinion the law was written by stupid and uninformed legislators at the request of power hungry bureaucrats who were clueless as it doesn't even address gross combined weights. Perhaps GCWR is addressed in another article not quoted here?

The NY law you quoted also clearly states that an officer has NO AUTHORITY to ticket a non-CDL driver or impound a tow truck with a GVWR of 8,600 lbs. as you claimed is being done. From your own words it is pretty clear that NY LEOs don't even know and properly enforce NY law and certainly know nothing about USDOT law.

The US DOT regulations are initially confusing, we agree. Before I drove to Indiana to begin hauling commercially I had a long conversation with a Texas DPS lieutenant of the commercial enforcement section. Then I spent several days in a classroom where I was taught the regulations by a demanding safety/compliance manager. Actually I had that experience in two separate but very strict RV transport companies with large fleets of drivers. Each of those companies knew the law better than everyday LEOs and strictly imposed and enforced the US DOT regulations and the odd quirks of the various states on their drivers including me. Later I established and managed a DOT compliance program for a few months in a small company that I worked for to put a stop to all the trouble their drivers were getting into all over the country.

DOT law is pretty simple once you understand it. Actual or rated weight in excess of 26k requires a CDL, 26k or under does not. If the vehicle weighs more or is rated to weigh more than 26k or is a combination vehicle including a trailer with GVW or GVWR in excess of 10k and is used for a commercial purpose it IS a commercial vehicle.

It doesn't matter what NY or any other state says when the driver and vehicle are engaged in interstate transportation, USDOT regulations apply. I too have hauled through NY many times with confident impunity from the laws of NY.

 

[HBarlow]

Kenny,

When you stated above you will obtain and post a written decision I hope you don't mean from the state of NY. Personally, I will give no credence to an interpretation from NY.

The only thing that matters here is US DOT regulations and, in KLauber's case, SC law. If you will simply sit down with a relaxed and open mind and read the US DOT regulations online you will understand that what I and GAmes are telling you is correct. Gary Owens, another TDR member with RV transport experience, also stated the same things early in this thread.