First regen experience - strange

[CraigSmith]

I have a 2009, built in Aug '09 and purchased in Sep. It lives a non-ideal life: my commute is only 3 miles, and it only sees towing duty in the summer. But I use the block heater in the winter, and usually drive it a fair amount on the weekends.

Last Friday, with just shy of 6000 miles (which included 600 miles of towing and 1500 miles of another trip), the DPF 80% Full Regen Required message came on. I drove it on errands (including filling the tank) for another 12 miles or so before I could take it on a regen run. By that time the message said 90% full! How it could increase 10% with a 0. 2% increase in miles I don't know.

Anyway, I got onto a road where I could do 60 and after about 3/4 mile the regen process started. There are stoplights about every mile though and I hit all of them. At the first light I put it in neutral and kept the revs up. The other lights were pretty short so I didn't do this, but in each case I accelerated somewhat aggressively away. I also kept the exhaust brake on. I saw the DPF status go from 90 to 80 to 70%.

After about 4 miles I finally got onto a road without stoplights, but as soon as I did it said the process was complete! I was quite surprised. I drove another 20 miles at highway speed anyway, and the next day drove another 45 miles on the freeway.

Well, yesterday, exactly a week later, the same thing happened. This time the regen process started before I could get to a high-speed road, when I was doing less than 40 mph. It hadn't yet gotten to 90% full I don't think. Again it completed after a few miles, still before I could get onto a high-speed road. And again it didn't get less than 70% full.

I am less than impressed with the design of this system. I certainly don't want this to be the weekly norm, and I don't want to get stranded. I'm thinking I probably need to either have the dealer force a regen, or perhaps get an Edge Insight so I can better monitor and/or do it myself. (It seems like the Insight would be a good idea anyway; I'm leaning towards that one as they are local. )

 

[DPrew]

I've never heard a chime or seen a message on the overhead of my 09' 3500 with 6K miles. The only odd thing I've experienced is coming to a stoplight and feeling a small surge in rpm. I'm not sure if it's the truck upping the rpm because I'm causing conditions unsuitable for an ongoing regen or whats going on. I drive with a heavy foot but only tow heavy a few times a month.

 

[EricBu12]

My 09 is doing well at 8000 miles. I drive 13 miles every day to work. . most of it freeway. I have never seen the active regen come on. I was doing more city running the first 2000 miles and I had the oil change light come on at about 2000 miles for the 2nd oil change... . Now that I do more freeway everyday, the oil light has not come on in over 3500 miles. . Just did a little weekend trip of 280 miles, steady light towing. . so that is what I have done and it seems to be working.

If you can, Id suggest a longer way to work or let it warm up a little with the E-brake on before you leave for work... Maybe more freeway miles every day... I'd say that when the process was complete, it was not down to 0%. . it was maybe 60 or so. . so it didn't take long to get over 70 again... I see that a week later it did it again after driving over 60 miles after the regen... hmmmm . . Thought that would have done it. . Maybe the dealer can have the DPF cleaned.

I drive for FedEx and some of our International trucks have a DPF and the shop hooks them to a computer to do a cleaning program sometimes and these trucks are always on the road runnin'.

Try driving at least 7-10 miles on the freeway every day and see if that helps as a preventive

 

[HBarlow]

I have a 2009, built in Aug '09 and purchased in Sep. It lives a non-ideal life: my commute is only 3 miles, and it only sees towing duty in the summer. But I use the block heater in the winter, and usually drive it a fair amount on the weekends.

Last Friday, with just shy of 6000 miles (which included 600 miles of towing and 1500 miles of another trip), the DPF 80% Full Regen Required message came on. I drove it on errands (including filling the tank) for another 12 miles or so before I could take it on a regen run. By that time the message said 90% full! How it could increase 10% with a 0. 2% increase in miles I don't know.

Anyway, I got onto a road where I could do 60 and after about 3/4 mile the regen process started. There are stoplights about every mile though and I hit all of them. At the first light I put it in neutral and kept the revs up. The other lights were pretty short so I didn't do this, but in each case I accelerated somewhat aggressively away. I also kept the exhaust brake on. I saw the DPF status go from 90 to 80 to 70%.

After about 4 miles I finally got onto a road without stoplights, but as soon as I did it said the process was complete! I was quite surprised. I drove another 20 miles at highway speed anyway, and the next day drove another 45 miles on the freeway.

Well, yesterday, exactly a week later, the same thing happened. This time the regen process started before I could get to a high-speed road, when I was doing less than 40 mph. It hadn't yet gotten to 90% full I don't think. Again it completed after a few miles, still before I could get onto a high-speed road. And again it didn't get less than 70% full.

I am less than impressed with the design of this system. I certainly don't want this to be the weekly norm, and I don't want to get stranded. I'm thinking I probably need to either have the dealer force a regen, or perhaps get an Edge Insight so I can better monitor and/or do it myself. (It seems like the Insight would be a good idea anyway; I'm leaning towards that one as they are local. )

I really hate to write this and dim your enthusiasm for your new truck but I suspect you will continue to have similar issues with the regeneration cycle and it could result in codes set and even sooted EGR valve, or the turbo if your drive cycle remains as it is currently.

I am a very loyal owner and supporter of the Dodge Ram truck and Cummins engine. Three of them have served me well and continue to serve me very well with very few problems and very little maintenance and repair expense.

But I don't think the new ISB6. 7 with federally mandated emissions equipment is the right truck for an owner who commutes three miles twice a day including winter temperatures in Utah.

It is not for me to tell you what to do or how to change your drive cycle but I think if you don't do something different you will not be a happy owner. The truck needs to work harder when driven either by high speed highway driving or frequent hauling and towing of heavy loads.

 

[Hoefler]

On your daily commute, you are not getting the exhaust hot enough for a long enough time to help it keep itself clean. You are not getting a full regen in the short period your driving in stop and go traffic. Raising the RPM's at a stop light does nothing to help a regen since you have to be moving for it to go into or continue the process, unless it is forced into a regen with the Star scan tool. Best thing you could do, is to hook up a good sized load, head for the interstate, and run it hard for 50 or so miles. Then turn it around and do it again!



These trucks were designed to be work horses!! The grocery getter's have the most trouble. I see a regen about every 3-4 weeks. I tow about 6,000lbs every day I work, lately 6-7 days a week, and my 5ver every chance I get. With the 5ver in tow, I never see a regen! Key here is to get it hot and keep it there!!!

 

[CraigSmith]

Thanks everyone. I fully agree and alluded to it in my post -- this truck does not see the driving it was made for and is necessary for problem-free running. I have thought about taking a slightly longer way to work and back, and with the encouragement here will probably do that, although I don't know how much it will really help. When I bought it I had a 25 mile freeway commute, but that changed right after, although of course I didn't know all this stuff then.

But I need to learn how to live with it, unless I sell my trailer (which is a possibility). I previously had a Hemi Ram 2500 but it just couldn't handle the towing, partially due to the altitude. If Dodge would make a turbo Hemi it would probably be the best option.

There was one other 500 mile non-towing trip I took a couple months ago, but unfortunately there aren't many places to camp around here in the winter, and the trailer needs to stay winterized most of the time to avoid freezing the lines anyway so it wouldn't be real convenient. But I'm hoping to take more trips next year anyway.

And I guess it doesn't help that I have a light foot, trying to get good mileage and trying not to stress the engine until it is warmed up. I'm not sure why they don't just run the truck a little leaner under light load; that would increase EGT and result in less soot as well. The process of getting warmed up and running hot presents a paradox with the desire for less unburned fuel. I've gotten conflicting advice and may post separately on that.

I realize the latest program is trying to regenerate around town, but my main beef is that when a regen is required, they need to give you more time to create the ideal situation, i. e. get out on the freeway. The need to give you at least 100 miles of driving before it starts one that isn't ideal. Some people live a lot farther from an open road that I do, and you can't always just drop what you're doing and start driving somewhere for a couple hours. This week I was purposely trying not to drive fast so it would avoid starting until I got to an open road, but it didn't work. Last week it seemed to continue the process through the stop lights UNTIL I got the the open road. Although I would rather have manual control over it, I realize they are trying to make it unobtrusive. And perhaps they ought to do it more often and take advantage of when you are on the highway anytime the filter is more that 50% full. So far I have never seen a surge in idle or anything else to indicate it was regenerating, although I suppose it has sometimes. And its measurement of the "full" level is obviously off.

I changed the oil at 4k, and have yet to see a notice, but it sounds like I should probably expect one soon.

Thanks again.

 

[CraigSmith]

I guess one thing I could do is load the bed down a bit; that would help ride and snow traction as well.

I do wish I had gotten the 3. 42 gears, as I downsized my trailer and even towing this thing hardly breaks a sweat. And it doesn't get very good mileage either; no better than my Hemi with 4. 10 gears. But I haven't yet tested it on those 10000ft 8% grades that gave the Hemi so much trouble; I can't wait.

 

[RVTRKN]

Do you have the high idle feature enabled on your 6. 7? I always run mine at least 1200 RPM during warmup and sometimes during a suspected regen I will run it at 1500 RPM for 10 to 15 minutes. And another must for you is to get into the habit of turning on your EB, fortunately for me, mine is the C&C that keeps the EB on, unless I turn it off.



Your other solution is to drive another vehicle and keep your truck at home. I don't like to drive my C&C due to fuel cost and the poor MPG the EPA (yes the epa not D/C) has saddled the Cummins with, at least its better than the competition. When diesel was just as cheap as regular gas, I would rather drive my 2500 5. 9 that got better MPG than my Tacoma with a V6. Unfortunately they are both gone. The issue with the DPF is a problem for any 07 or newer diesel engine of any make.



Due to selling my 2500 to my brother and giving my Tacoma to my daughter, I took the little Yaris from my wife and bought her a RAV4 so I could commute to work without breaking the bank. My C&C empty only gets 15 MPG at best, and even though I can drive it father than required for a regen it just is uneconomical.

 

[mxaaron]

I have an 09 with 4600 miles on it and I have not seen any regen messages yet. I tow a travel trailer on the weekends, and if I cannot get to operating temp running errands with the truck, I take the wifes car. The truck sits all week. I have had no oil change indicator yet, and no regen message.

 

[HBarlow]

mxaaron:

Unless the new 2010s are different, there is no regeneration message in the overhead computer.

The only way to detect when the engine is in the regen mode is with gauges or with experience you will be able to detect a change in exhaust note and off-throttle response.

CraigSmith:

Terms like lean burn don't apply with a diesel engine. That is a term that matters in gasoline engines. A gas engine can only operate in a narrow range of air fuel mixture, something like 14 to 1 iirc.

Less fuel than the ideal stoichmetric (I think that's the correct word) ratio and the engine is in a lean burn condition which will burn valves, more fuel in the fuel to air ratio and it burns rich and smokes. A gas engine is an air pump and it's rotating speed is controlled by allowing more or less air to pass through. Fuel must vary with air flow but must always maintain the approximate ratio of 14 parts air to one part gasoline ratio to fire.

A diesel engine is not sensitive to lean or rich ratio. Air flow is constant with rpm and is never restricted in a diesel engine. Adding more fuel produces more power, reducing fuel injected produces less power. The fuel to air ratio in a diesel engine constantly varies according to the driver's foot input.

Don't give up on your Ram Turbodiesel. It is a great working and towing truck but not an ideal grocery getter or short trip commuter vehicle. Rather than taking a huge monetary loss and giving up the best towing vehicle money can buy for your travel trailer, I would suggest buying and driving a cheap used gas econo box to and from work. An older Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mitsubishi could be bought cheap and driven for years until the wheels fall off. Park your truck and use it for longer trips or for towing and hauling.

 

[PFranzese]

and if I cannot get to operating temp running errands with the truck, I take the wifes car.

I have an 09 with 18k miles. I drive it every day and tow a car trailer once to twice a month at most, some months no towing at all. I have yet to ever see a regen message but my drive to work is longer. I also used a winter front during the cold months which I feel made a big difference in the way the truck ran during the winter. If I run to the store or someplace local I take wifies car if possible. You definitely need to drive it longer. I have also heard that the regen message will turn off when the DPF is below a % level, not sure what that level is but it sure isn't 0%. You probably need to continue to drive for a while after the message is gone.

 

[HBarlow]

I've never heard a chime or seen a message on the overhead of my 09' 3500 with 6K miles. The only odd thing I've experienced is coming to a stoplight and feeling a small surge in rpm. I'm not sure if it's the truck upping the rpm because I'm causing conditions unsuitable for an ongoing regen or whats going on. I drive with a heavy foot but only tow heavy a few times a month.

Unless the '09 and '10 have changed you won't hear a chime or see a message indicating regen mode.

Feeling the surge you described sounds right. I don't think it is because you are causing anything less than ideal, it happens because the ECM is fueling to burn particles.

I also notice a burbling exhaust note which is an indicator I recognize. Unless you have a exhaust pyro gauge you won't know for sure when it is in regen.

If you are driving it daily for a few miles at highway speed or towing hauling everything should be fine. As long as you're not seeing messages telling you the dpf is full or seeing codes set you are probably driving it like it needs.

 

[HBarlow]

I have an 09 with 18k miles. I drive it every day and tow a car trailer once to twice a month at most, some months no towing at all. I have yet to ever see a regen message but my drive to work is longer. I also used a winter front during the cold months which I feel made a big difference in the way the truck ran during the winter. If I run to the store or someplace local I take wifies car if possible. You definitely need to drive it longer. I have also heard that the regen message will turn off when the DPF is below a % level, not sure what that level is but it sure isn't 0%. You probably need to continue to drive for a while after the message is gone.

I think you are doing the right things.

 

[PFranzese]

Thanks Harvey, I am trying to do things right. This is my first diesel and it needs to last a long time. Thanks to a long time diesel owning friends advice to join this forum I have learned a ton of things about the truck and read a lot of great advice from other owners like yourself. I hope CraigSmith has just as good of an experience with his truck and this site that I have had and can find the needed advice here to have a great experience with his truck.

 

[HBarlow]

I had all the same experiences back in 2001 when I bought my first one. I learned the foundation of everything I know now from TDR posts by other members. TDR was invaluable then and still is today.

 

[CraigSmith]

I don't have the high-idle feature enabled. I went to the dealer to have it done, and they recommended against it. But I think for the wrong reasons. However, according to TDR magazine the latest programming results in less soot at regular idle than high idle. (I assume this applies to the '09s. ) But on the flip side it won't warm up as fast.

By using the block heater the water temp usually gets fairly warm even in my short commute; coming home it doesn't though.

I've thought about a winter front. I'm not sure why they would help though; there shouldn't be anything circulating through the radiator when the engine isn't warm enough anyway. But maybe after the engine warms up the water just cools too much in the radiator? But here in Utah it doesn't really get that cold most of the time. A higher thermostat makes more sense to me, and they have done that with the 2010's, but apparently you can't put one on an earlier model. Dumb.

I use the EB most of the time when it's cold; I wish I could program it to come on by itself though. Lately I've been thinking that the additional backpressure might encourage more thorough burning even when it's warm, but I may be wrong.

A second car would certainly be better for the truck, but I like to garage my vehicles, and don't have room for any more. But I might think about having my wife take me to work. Or maybe riding a bike. (The latter isn't ideal for winter though, when it would be most beneficial. )

 

[odinjunior]

Only Dodge would sell me a truck that requires me to keep a second vehicle. There has to be a better way. That's a lot of monthly payment to only be able to use it when I tow. I sure miss my 5. 9. :-laf

 

[CraigSmith]

Only Dodge would sell me a truck that requires me to keep a second vehicle. There has to be a better way. That's a lot of monthly payment to only be able to use it when I tow.

I'm with you on that one. It seems there ought to be ways to make it run hot enough when not under load.

 

[CraigSmith]

One other thought -- say I do take a longer route to work to let it warm up more. But my understanding is that unloaded driving, even freeway driving, doesn't get it hot enough for passive regen. So all that would do is add more soot to the filter. The main issue is minimizing cold running, but the only way to do that is minimize the number of cold starts period, regardless of how long the trips are. No?

They should just run the regen more often whenever we're on the highway and there shouldn't be any issues.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Only Dodge would sell me a truck that requires me to keep a second vehicle. There has to be a better way. That's a lot of monthly payment to only be able to use it when I tow. I sure miss my 5. 9. :-laf

One of the things we buy these trucks for, is economy - another, is reliability.



Seems to me there are an uncomfortable number of guys with the later trucks having regen issues - that unreliability, and the forced necessity to pretty often drive EXTRA miles at higher speeds then normally used, seem to significantly reduce the reliability and economy factor - NOR does it seem reasonable that ANY of these diesel trucks be driven regularly long and hard, in order to obtain qualities and performance levels quite common to earlier generation trucks WITHOUT special treatment.



In the winter, I drive my '02 short, around - town distance, usually 5-10 miles round trip, in the 35 MPH range, and have NEVER had any issues - you want to tell me these later trucks are technologically ADVANCED over the earlier stuff? :-laf