2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Vibration Problem

[dieselburner]

I have a really bad vibration in my truck that starts up if I am running down a bumpy road. I thought it might be the right front hub but it wasn't. I changed it out today and I still have the problem. Somebody mentioned that it could be my front axle disconnect so I checked that out and it is working fine also. The truck will not vibrate in 4wd only 2wd. When I get the vibration, it will go away if I move the transfer case shifter slightly towards 4wd or neutral. I thought this was coming from the front of the truck but now I am not sure. I heard about a problem with a snap ring on these trucks coming loose in the transfer case. Would the symptoms I am having be caused by this? I am planning on a camping trip next weekend pulling my fifth wheel so I am getting desperate to fix it. Any ideas? Thanks



Steve

 

[dieselburner]

UPDATE:

I took the front driveshaft out and ran it again. I still have the same vibration only now it does not go away if I switch the transfer case into 4wd or neutral. Front axle or ???

 

[Delrayz]

You say it starts when going down a bumpy road. Is it a vibb or a shimmy? Does it go away when brake to stop, does the steering wheel shake?

 

[dieselburner]

Its not a shimmy. Definately not the death wobble. I just got out from underneath it after taking the CAD back apart to take another look. I found that the outer axle shaft is moving about 1/4" up and down inside the housing. I was looking at the FSM and can't find any reference to a bearing on the outboard side of the CAD other than way out at the hub. They do mention a seal on that side. Does anyone have an exploded view of one of these dana 60 fronts with the dodge cad?

 

[dieselburner]

Allright, I just was looking at the dana website and found an exploded view of my axle. It looks like there is a bushing installed in there next to the seal. Anyone have any experience changing this out?

 

[Delrayz]

I far as I can recall the axle is splined with a nut at the hub end and sline at the other at the diff, passenger side is splined into the disconnect sleeve and fits in to the short shaft. I don't recall a bushing for the axle to float in. . as far as the seals go there is a special tool needed to replace the seals. I have used a long threaded rod and some seal installers but the tool works better.

 

[SRath]

There is a plastic (!!) bushing that mates the two axle sections together at the CAD. Dirt cheap and easy to change if you have the shaft apart. It presses into the female end of the shaft-half. The other shaft has a male centering nub that rides and spins inside it.

If you have up and down play where the shaft halves mate, that bushing would about have to be shot. It will cost you about 5 bucks, but you need to slide the shaft out to change it.

 

[dieselburner]

Vibration fixed. I figured I would post this so that anyone else that has this problem can diagnose it by searching the forum. The problem was resolved by adding oil to the CAD. When I first opened it only a small amount ran out into the drip pan. When I found the play in the end of the outer shaft, (it turned out to be about 1/8" not the 1/4" that I thought before) I knew that I had found the source of my problem. I added the 5oz of gear lube to the CAD and now the vibration is completely gone and as a bonus, the outer seal still seems to be holding. The oil must help damp out vibrations between the two shafts as they run together in the plastic bushing. I cannot get over the fact that there does not seem to be any bearing on the shaft near the cad only the plastic nub. I saw on quad4x4 website that they sell a needle bearing, bushing and seals for the outer shaft but I could not figure out where in the axle the bearing gets installed. It is not shown on the exploded view at the dana website. Main thing is it's working now with no leaks and no bad vibes.

 

[SRath]

The seal for the Dodge pseudo-Dana 60 CAD axle; passenger side; is located outboard of the CAD. This means gear lube should be getting down the tube and out to the CAD. Have you checked your lube level?

Real Dana 60 front axles (no CAD crap) do not have 'axle shaft bearings' either. The splined inner end rides in the differential, and the outer end is supported by the u-joint and inner spindle bearing. There is only a seal right at the differential and tube junction, like on the driver's side of CAD-axle Dodges.

IF your plastic axle half-shaft bushing is good; and IF your outer u-joint is good; and IF there are no sealed-bearing-hub problems, there is no need for an axle shaft bearing.

I think you found a very temporary solution that points to a bad bushing and/or u-joint and/or low lube level.

 

[dieselburner]

Your right about it possibly being a temporary fix. I did check the front axle level a couple weeks ago and added a quart of amsoil synthetic to it. It could probably use another 1/4 of a quart to get it up to the plug. When I was chasing the problem, I replaced the hub with a Timken hub. The old one had a little bit of bearing noise with some rust evident but no rocking. The bushing between the two axle shafts had about an 1/8 inch of play. I would guess that that is excessive. My axle seal is not leaking now (yet) but if I get the vibration back, I know what to fix.



Steve

 

[SRath]

That seal is a real PITA to replace without a special installer. I ended up making one. I also had trouble with the National brand seal that Napa sold me and then bought a genuine Spicer seal that seemed to fit better. My old seal was extremely worn.

When the seal is waaaay outboard like that, the slightest wobble or wear in your outer u-joint or hub will really egg it out fast. You will see a definite trail of gear lube out the axle tube (if your oil level is high enough to be correct).

When the seal is located right at the differential, like it is on the driver's side and on both sides on all other non-CAD Danas, a little bit of wobble at the u-joint or hub does not translate into much oscillation at all at the seal and, therefore, the seals last much longer and work better.

Make your efforts count for more and replace the outer u-joint while you have the shaft out. That p-poor dodge design keeps the u-joint and outer shaft turning ALL the time and if you break one, it will certainly take a shaft or two with it or worse.

 

[JMcCoy]

Glad to hear you possibly have it licked. Yeah these CADs are garbage. The cable makes it better, but still garbage. That's why i'm in the process of changing to the Ford manual hubs and brakes. NO MORE CAD Oo.



As far as the needle bearings go, it's located at the outer end of the inner inner axle, at the CAD (opposit the seal).



Enjoy your camping trip.

 

[Tsexton]

That seal is a real PITA to replace without a special installer. I ended up making one. I also had trouble with the National brand seal that Napa sold me and then bought a genuine Spicer seal that seemed to fit better. My old seal was extremely worn.



When the seal is waaaay outboard like that, the slightest wobble or wear in your outer u-joint or hub will really egg it out fast. You will see a definite trail of gear lube out the axle tube (if your oil level is high enough to be correct).



When the seal is located right at the differential, like it is on the driver's side and on both sides on all other non-CAD Danas, a little bit of wobble at the u-joint or hub does not translate into much oscillation at all at the seal and, therefore, the seals last much longer and work better.



Make your efforts count for more and replace the outer u-joint while you have the shaft out. That p-poor dodge design keeps the u-joint and outer shaft turning ALL the time and if you break one, it will certainly take a shaft or two with it or worse.

Gents,

Any update on the this thread?



My 2002 2500 started front end vibrating (low speed while driving on a side street) accompanied by the ABS and Brake light.

At first, it seemed like the right front end. As the vibration and front noise got worse (while trying to nurse it home), I sensed it was coming from the front drive shaft (floor board vibration)... upon inspection, the U joints needed to be replaced.



Replacing the U joints did not fix the problem. ABS and Brake light came on again during the post U joint repair test drive when the vibration came back.



Also, NO CAD installed... it was manufactured late enough in 2002 to be a solid axle version.



Recommendations?

 

[dieselburner]

The only update I can give to my thread is the problem was and continues to be resolved. I have had zero problems ever since I added oil to the CAD. It was very perplexing to find but once I discovered the problem it was a ridiculously easy fix. Good luck with yours. Maybe someone else will chime in.

 

[Tsexton]

Thanks,

I drove it without the front drive shaft and the noise continued the ABS & Brake warning lights came on again.



I disassembled right brake and rotor assembly... all good.



I disassembled the left side and found a bad bearing in the outer race... more work.



Thanks for your reply.