Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) EGT too high, too much smoke & bark

[Grumpy John 4x4]

bark

Might want a HX40/16 turbo my set up works great with the 370's AFE Sock

 

[Reddog1]

Grumpy John 4x4, do you have stock exhaust?

I do wonder if a 14 or 16 exhaust with my PDR HX35/40, would have a positive impact?

I appreciate your suggestion.

Wayne

 

[Missouri Mule]

What Grumpy John 4x4 states a larger exhaust housing but there are several turbos on the market that are better than the Hx35/40. The 370 as Games states are smoky.

Try calling or checking out Dynomte Disel performance 360-794-7974,

Dynomite Diesel Performance: Reliable Diesel Performance Products and Injectors for your Cummins, Duramax or Powerstroke - Monroe, WA I would check out their web site first.

 

[Reddog1]

There must be turbos on the market that are better than the Hx35/40, so far it appears the stock turbo is better for my application.

I will check out Dynomite Diesel Performance.

Wayne

 

[JMcCoy]

You say you are dissappointed in the suggestions. Do you think maybe you don't like the suggestions given. It took several mods to get you where you are. It will probably take several to correct the problem.



More fuel = more smoke and higher EGTs. More air = less smoke and lower EGTs.



Answer #1 If you lreduce fuel, your egt's and smoke WILL reduce.



Answer #2 If you increase your airflow, your egts and smoke WILL reduce.



Answer #3 If you reduce backpressure (open up the exhaust), your your egts, smoke, and bark will reduce.



Thoughs are your options. There are many ways of getting there. You can't open up the exhaust due to the brake. Then the only way to reduce smoke and egts is to get a bigger turbo or install smaller injectors. A larger turbo is not going to work to it's full potential with the stock exhaust. That leaves you with going back to stock injectors.



I would definately play with the waste gate and see if it helps the bark, but I doubt it will help your smoke and egts.



Recommendation #1: Open up the exhaust and see where it is with smoke, egts, and bark. The go to recommendation #2 if nessesary.



Recommendation #2: Put the stock injectors back in then see where that leaves you with smoke and egts. Install an aftermarket (adjustable) wastegate. I know banks makes them. I'm sure others do too. If your problems are corrected, then I would try a #10 fuel plate with the stock injectors. I think you will be surprized. Then, when possible, open up the exhaust.



I appologize if I come off like a know-it-all. Believe me, it is not the case. I hope some of my ramblings made sense or even help some. Good luck.

 

[Reddog1]

JMcCoy, My statement on being disappointed is quoted below. My disappointment was not due to suggestions, but lack of people suggesting.

"I am disappointed with how many post are made recommending mods, when the most basic (in my opinion) questions cannot/or are not addressed by the same people. It kinda suggest there are a lot of people that simply re-post hype, with very little knowledge of what they have. It also suggest they fail to post the negatives of their set-up. Simply stated, it does not do much for their creditability, on their suggestions. "

Although I did get a couple of valid responses, I hoped to have received a couple more in depth post like yours.


I have considered a lot of issues in your post, from my previous experience, but it has been a few years. You have re-enforced what I thought I knew, and made it more clear. I certainly do not see your post as ramblings nor do you appear to come off like a know-it-all. Part of my frustration has been one line solutions offered.


Considering cost and time, I think I will use my #10 fuel plate with the stock injectors first, as you suggest in your 2nd recommendation. I am convinced the 370s will have to go, for the smoke if nothing else. If I cannot accept the power loss, maybe bump up a notch over stock injectors.

I am going to play with the wastegate, as you suggested. I have never adjusted the wastegate before. I will look into aftermarket (adjustable) wastegates Do you have any specific thoughts on what to do with adjusting the stock wastegate? I do have the elbow on it now.

What are your thoughts in replacing the 12 cm exhaust housing with a 14 cm? What would be the overall effect?

It could be I am just chasing my tail, but I do not think my mods are not uncommon with the stock exhaust. Perhaps others are just accepting the issues I have, I did for several years. Perhaps it is simply a result of hauling 4200 pounds on a daily basis. Thanks for taking your time to help me resolve this issue.


Wayne

 

[hsmith]

I'm not sure what your problem is, or I should say what is the cause of your problem. With my setup I have absolutely no barking issues. Mine went away when I went with the larger turbo. I'm using the same plate, timing, etc. DDPII's, Super B turbo, afc mods, etc.

Also egt's are seldom an issue towing. BTW, it tows like a champ, 14k fiver.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[JMcCoy]

I do agree there doesn't seem to be as many posters here. I believe many have moved on to 3rd gens. I also believe people don't post problems with their setups because they don't want to admit they're setup isn't perfect or they wasted $$$. My truck is far from perfect, but I'ts getting better with "almost" every mod.



Most of my diesel experience is with working around a stock turbo setup. If I posted any specific information, it would just be more re-posted hype. That is probably why I always push for addressing intake/exhaust. Nobody likes the unknown. As of right now, I have no smoke or egt issues. That may change when I get injectors. I will probably go with Dynamite Diesel injectors, due to internet posts. My main issue right now is gearing. 3. 55s are not working for me with 35" tires.



Hopefully someone will chime in with more turbo suggestions. Good luck.

 

[The patriot]

I have a pretty much stock 98 with a 5 speed.

The 370's will smoke at idle. As a result I limit my idling because of cylinder wash.

I have a BHAF, 370's and an "adjusted" star wheel. That's about it.

If you idle a lot you may want to try another injector.

 

[Reddog1]

hsmith, do you have the stock exhaust with your Super B turbo?


JMcCoy, I too "believe people don't post problems with their setups because they don't want to admit they're setup isn't perfect or they wasted $$$. " Unfortunately, too many of them will give one line recommendations without including the negatives. I appreciate your response, I think the answer is in there. Are you running a stock turbo?


The patriot, I do not idle my truck for long periods of time, I haven't had the need. If it smokes at idle, I haven't noticed it.


Wayne

 

[JMcCoy]

Yes My turbo is stock. Even it will bark (like a chiwawa) if i let off too fast while spooling up.

 

[hsmith]

Wayne, my exhaust has been 4" for a long time. When going to the Super B you will have no choice as it comes with a 4" down pipe.

I also had to go with a down stream EB, as the Jacobs turbo mounted unit would no longer work.

 

[KB0OU]

I think if you check the "turbo bark" is popping off of the wastegate valve.

It would have nothing to do with a reversing of the rotation of the turbo.

If you adjust the wastegate for less "bark" it will allow a higher boost pressure, this can get bad for head gaskets if it goes too high.

 

[The patriot]

The patriot, I do not idle my truck for long periods of time, I haven't had the need. If it smokes at idle, I haven't noticed it.





Wayne

Just noticed you have the 180 (stock) ENGINE. probibally has the smaller delivery valves.



It dont smoke like theyre sending out helos to find the forest fire, but it can be a hassle if the wind is coming from the wrong direction.

I dont forsee me buying another one of these as I'm quite happy with mine, so my main concern is cylinder wash.

 

[GAmes]

I think if you check the "turbo bark" is popping off of the wastegate valve.

It would have nothing to do with a reversing of the rotation of the turbo.

If you adjust the wastegate for less "bark" it will allow a higher boost pressure, this can get bad for head gaskets if it goes too high.

The whistle you hear when releasing the throttle to change gears is the wastegate opening. The turbo shaft does not "reverse" when it barks, it stalls, just like an airplane wing stalls when air flow over it slows down below a critical point. The sudden slow down causes the blades to flex slightly and over time they will break off at the root and grenade the turbo. If the wastegate has an adjustment it can go either way i. e. , allow higher boost before opening or lower boost before opening.

 

[Reddog1]

hsmith - Realizing it would still be a restriction, I wonder what the end result of the Super B would be if a 4" down pipe was used, necked to a 3" exhaust brake, then back to a 4"? Have you ever talked to anyone that has done this?





KB0OU - Could you expand on your post to adjusting the wastegate for less "bark"? If I disconnected the wastegate, do you think that would stop the bark? If pulling up a slight hill, quickly let off the accelerator at 10 lbs boost, my turbo will bark.



I do have a 0. 020-inch marine head gasket, 40-lb springs and my head has been shaved 0. 010 inch. It is my understanding, that would allow me to run higher boost.





The patriot - Yep, I have a stock 180 pump and delivery valves. I guess my EGTs are high enough to to burn the cylinder wash.





GAmes - I am not quite clear on your post. I hear a whistle when at an idle, or spooling up. I do not hear a whistle when releasing the throttle. Maybe I have misunderstood.



I understand the wastegate will allow higher boost before opening or lower boost before opening. Will it have an effect on the barking?



How does the boost elbow differ from adjusting the wastegate?





I appreciate you guy input.





Wayne

 

[GAmes]

I do have a 0. 020-inch marine head gasket, 40-lb springs and my head has been shaved 0. 010 inch. It is my understanding, that would allow me to run higher boost.



GAmes - I am not quite clear on your post. I hear a whistle when at an idle, or spooling up. I do not hear a whistle when releasing the throttle. Maybe I have misunderstood.



I understand the wastegate will allow higher boost before opening or lower boost before opening. Will it have an effect on the barking?



How does the boost elbow differ from adjusting the wastegate?

Don't you mean you have 60 lb springs? 40 lbs are stock.



I guess you wouldn't hear the release of pressure when changing gears, forgot you had an auto. Maybe you could duplicate it by accelerating and shifting into nuetral as you release the throttle.



KBOOU is totally off base, here is why. When you are accelerating the increased flow of exhaust gas turns the hot side wheel. Remember that each vane is an airfoil, just like a wing. The hot side wheel drives the cold side wheel, again a group of airfoils, faster and faster resulting in increased air pressure to the intake manifold. If you have 30 psi of boost in the manifold the entire intake system is pressurized to 30 psi, the tubes, the intercooler all the way back to the wheel. The wastegate is also held closed by the increased or increasing pressure. If you let off the throttle gradually the pressure to the wastegate drops, it opens and releases the pressure in the system and all is well. If you suddenly let off the throttle the flow of exhaust gas decreases suddenly also, so the hot side quits driving the cold side, the wastegate can't open fast enough and the 30 psi in the system trys to reverse it's direction to the now unpowered cold side wheel. It stalls and you hear a bark.



Thinking back to my turbine engine training I remembered that not only were the Lycomings improved with the variable inlet guide vanes, they also had a bleedband installed at the last stage of compression. The purpose of the bleed band was to release compressed air if the cold side compressor wheel was spinning too fast for the hotside turbine wheels. It does the same thing the wastegate does, so based on that I would think that employing a faster responding wastegate could work.



As for you last question, I don't know. I do not have an adjustable boost elbow. I am not sure there is an adjustment for the wastegate either, I'm on the road so crawling around under the truck can't happen until I get home.



I was hoping Joe D. would step in here with a possible solution.

 

[Reddog1]

You are correct, it is 60 lb springs.

I too would like for Joe D. to step in here with a possible solution.

I have to re-read, ponder, and digest your last post.


Wayne

 

[cerberusiam]

The WG is on the hot side, its only held closed by the spring pressure on the actuator not the boost. The WG opens when boost exceeds the spring pressure on the actuator, it won't open until that happens.



The bark on shift points is simply compressor stall because the hybrid cannot support the drop in flow of the exhaust on the gear change. It was and is one of their major drawbacks, in addtion to snapping the shaft because of that. You get rid of the bark by reducing the boost but thats not what you need.



If you go to bigger compressor wheel that will support more airflow you must upgrade the exhaust side to a better compressor that will support the compressor at reduced exhaust flow. This is what the extend tip turbine wheels give oyu in a correctly matched turbo.



You basically have a choice of turning the fuel and boost down or getting a turbo that is matched better to the fueling curve.

 

[KB0OU]

I think you guys are way too smart for my comments but here goes.

The boost elbow sold by TNT etc is a ajustment for the wastegate.

No more comments on the barking turbo, obviously my comments are wasted here.

I just have 40 plus years working on diesels, I don't know much.

The Fairbanks engines I have worked on would overload your trucks and your brains.