Help !! transmission fluid in radiator

[sag2]

I use Joy, because it leaves my hands soft and supple!

I also found this from an earlier post.

Found the PN for the recall cooler, CBLAC442, fits 2003-2004 and retails for $176. 00. I don't know why it would not fit more years as the OEM cooler fits 2003-2009.

Retail is now $286 and there are only a couple hundred left in stock.

 

[mwilson]

Sag2, Thanks for bringing up the kit, you have posted that before and I keep forgetting that it is out there still available.



TGVET,

We use the liquid Cascade here as well with excellent results. We clean the big engines with it after an oil cooler failure and it works really well.

I have not checked anybody's hands for suppleness afterwards though... ... . nor do I want to...



I would try flushing the transmission with the return line off method before I condemned it.

In theory that cooler failed on your way home. It happily pumped transmission fluid into your coolant system all the way home.

Then you shut the truck off and the coolant/goo mixture bled back into the transmission until the pressure was gone.

You fired it up the next morning and could not make it out of the driveway.

I theorize that the transmission was only exposed to the goo for a short time and everything was cold as well. It might have survived, I would certainly take a case of ATF+4 and try it before I yanked it out of there.



Just my theory, I welcome yours... .



Mike.

 

[cerberusiam]

I would try flushing the transmission with the return line off method before I condemned it.

One can try that but inevitably a rebuild is gonna happen.



The fact the pan had milky fluid in it means it is all thru the transmission. Every seal, bearing, thrust washer, bushing, etc, has run without lube. Water is a lousy lubricant. A quart of water run thru an auto transmission will destroy the frictions, every single one of them. They will start flaking and shedding into the transmission.



The transmission has small passages that feed oil for lube and clutch apply. The sludge partially blocks these and raises havoc with control and operation. Have tried several times to salvage units contmainated with water and\or coolant and the only commonality is they failed soon after.



Usually, the failure is much more costly after the fact cuz its gonna burn some pieces up.



The front cooler is practially impossible to clean and flush with the thermostat in it. The sludage will plug lines and and thermostat stopping flow almost compeltely at times. Then you really smoke the transmission. The drain back check ball invariably catches sludge and failed friction material then its plugged.



A engine is easy to clean, an auto trans is a waste of time trying. It will fail, usually at an inopportune time costing way more than it should.

 

[sag2]

To properly clean the transmission cooler with a thermostatic bypass valve the bypass valve must be removed. If you don't, you have nice clean lines, and a dirty cooler.

As far as water always damaging them, I have to disagree that it always kills them. The Hemi cars with NAG transmissions ingested lots of water back a few years ago. They could and were saved by changing the fluid several times. Very few of them failed, and if they did it was usually only the converter clutch.

 

[TGVET]

Thanks for all the post guys, this is an awesome site with a lot of good and knowledgeable folks. I learned long ago and live by the words "knowledge it not all free". As much as it stings, there's much to be learned everyday, st least I'd hope so.
If not, you're probably dead or near it. . lol

At this point I've pretty much resigned myself to new components all BETTER than OEM if I can find and afford. Coolers, lines,(custom to avoid fore mentioned POS OEM design) hoses, Trans (now 240K on it and back at 140K doing every 20K trans fluid changes a 1-1/2" long piece of retaining ring was in the pan, what a nice surprise) I am leaning towards a BD trans but open to opines... To summarize, all necessary stuff to get me through and hopefully beyond, another 240K and 6yrs.

 

[sag2]

At this point I've pretty much resigned myself to new components all BETTER than OEM if I can find and afford. Coolers, lines,(custom to avoid fore mentioned POS OEM design) hoses.

I don't think you will find an aftermarket cooler that is more efficient than the OEM engine mounted cooler. Oil to water is always better than oil to air except when it fails, which is not that often.

 

[cerberusiam]

A little water is one thing, coolant is another whole ball game. One might get away with flushing it if it was just water, but, I have never had any luck or seen anybody have any luck with coolant contamination.



A lot of people just bypass the heat exchanger and add a Derale cooler under the bed with a fan. It is definitely not as efficient as the heat exchanger and you loose the ability to warm the fluid when in cold temps but it is an option depending on your location and use.



These coolers have been pretty solid as they have been used since Dodge started using the Cummins in these trucks. Occasional failures happen and it is no consolation when one is the target of chance.

 

[TGVET]

This is long winded but necessary..

A little water is one thing, coolant is another whole ball game. One might get away with flushing it if it was just water, but, I have never had any luck or seen anybody have any luck with coolant contamination.

A lot of people just bypass the heat exchanger and add a Derale cooler under the bed with a fan. It is definitely not as efficient as the heat exchanger and you loose the ability to warm the fluid when in cold temps but it is an option depending on your location and use.

These coolers have been pretty solid as they have been used since Dodge started using the Cummins in these trucks. Occasional failures happen and it is no consolation when one is the target of chance.

Referring to OEM replacement parts did not include the exchanger, I was referring to replacing the radiator and trans cooler with new ones. I'm not wasting time trying to clean either one. As for the a remote exchanger, I've already received the new OEM one.

As for the "lines", I was referring to custom SS braided ones the could be routed in such a way as to not contact any other hoses and such. Trying to put this thing back together again avoiding the crappy OEM designed to fail.

Getting back to the engine flushing which I think needs to be done ASAP unless the internals of the engine are not at risk like the trans. My thought is to start removing parts: lines, trans cooler, radiator & exchanger and flushing the engine directly with warm or hot soapy solution somehow . Or, leaving all intact and somehow get the cleaning solution into the system whether by: 1- filling the radiator directly, 2- through the overflow recovery tank or 3- through the T-stat port ?

Should I run the engine for a while in a closed system up to temp OR do the flushing in a purge with a hose disconnected and adding water as it flushes ?

Using diesel fuel as the solvent better ? Safer ? or does it really matter ? As it is right now, I have 10+ gallons of nasty milky trans & water fluid to dispose of. Using the diesel mixture I may well be able to throw it on my brush piles to burn or take it to the oil recyclers at my local refuse station.

What about the water pump and possible damage to it ? I suppose at this point I might be better off with a new and better one if there is such or rebuild it ?

I always leave my block heater on if under 50 deg. so also wondering if the element is now encrusted from heating goo vs coolant ?

If I'm taking the trans cooler and radiator off that would give me direct access to swapping a better harmonic balancer as well.

BTW, I do have the entire 105 Mb shop manual on my computer.

Thanks again for taking the time to read this guys and provide recommendations based on real life experience, I really do appreciate everyone's input.

Rob

BTW, it was discovered that my failure started over 90 miles from home where I had left a nice deposit of pink **** in several locations I was at. So, I had driven all the way home for over an hour on the freeway without any indications of overheating or driveability problems. .

 

[NIsaacs]

I can't advise how or what to do about running the engine to clean the cooling system due to the Auto, I don't have a clue about it.



But not counting the auto, diesel will clean your engine and radiator and any related parts without any damage, maybe the t-stat has a rubber seal... any way, per my Dad during WWII, it was hard to get antifreeze so they would often use diesel as the sole coolant. I also had a logging partner that told me and did the same thing. I have seen it used first hand as the sole coolant. I would not buy a new radiator if it were me, it will clean up as good as it was before the oil. I would also start the cleaning process before I removed anything other then the new exchanger.



Nick

 

[mwilson]

Cleaning it up isn't that bad. Pull the thermostat and use dishwashing soap. Start out with a cup or more, run a couple minutes, drain (by pulling lower hose), repeat, repeat, repeat. Then flush with water a couple of times, then evaluate and add soap again as required. It will start to come clean pretty quickly. Pull the overflow tank and clean it off the truck. The hardest part is changing the cooler.

To save time, you should not need to put the clamp back on the hose each time, just don't close the cap.

TGVET,

We do the exact same thing here as sag2 and Bill have described. We don't take anything apart, just keep putting the liquid Calgon and water to it, run the engine for a bit, drain, repeat, repeat... ... . This is on big Diesels with 12 gallon plus cooling systems.

The Calgon breaks up the oil just like it does in a dishwasher with greasy old dinner plates.

At least try it before you tear all kinds of stuff off that may not be necessay.



We don't change radiators, heater cores, water pumps, etc. after an oil cooler failure as they always clean up with the Calgon treatment.



Mike.

 

[TGVET]

Cleaning it up isn't that bad. Pull the thermostat and use dishwashing soap. Start out with a cup or more, run a couple minutes, drain (by pulling lower hose), repeat, repeat, repeat. Then flush with water a couple of times, then evaluate and add soap again as required. It will start to come clean pretty quickly. Pull the overflow tank and clean it off the truck. The hardest part is changing the cooler.

To save time, you should not need to put the clamp back on the hose each time, just don't close the cap.

OK Mike, Sag and Bill.



Tomorrow weather permitting, I'll try to get some flushing going. As stated, I've always had the heater plugged in to avoid cold starts. I'm liking the Cascade vs Calgon if indeed there is less residue and entering it into the system via the T-stat.



Should I run it up to temp a bit or not concern that ?



And draining out via the low radiator hose disconnected from the radiator ? With cap of so as not to have it under pressure popping the un-clamped lower hose ?



As far as water goes, at this point I am assuming tap water from my well is not and issue ? Otherwise, I would certainly use distilled mixed with coolant.



Thanks again.

Rob



PS, I think the only reason I made it all the way home is due to the fact that I have a MagHytek pan, because when I popped the cork on the pan I still had a gallon of goo come out where the dip stick was dry.

 

[NIsaacs]

Yes, you will need to run it up to operating temp, cold water will not cut the gunk. I would take the t-stat out and re-bolt the outlet back and fill at the radiator. By using the bottom radiator hose to drain you will get the quick dump that you need to pull the gunk out. I don't know about a 3rd gen but a 1st and 2nd gen, the bottom hose is up off the bottom a little. That might cause an issue getting it all out. If it is thin enough, you can use a siphon hose out the top. I would not use any antifreeze for the flush. By running the engine you will flush everything including the heater core. Like I said earlier, I don't know what you will need to put in the transmission so you can run the engine.



Nick

 

[mwilson]

If he leaves it in Park and it is still in stock form the transmission shouldn't pump, right????



Mike.

 

[NIsaacs]

If he leaves it in Park and it is still in stock form the transmission shouldn't pump, right????



Mike.

Yes, is will still pump and turn all the goodies, he will need some form of lube in it.



Nick

 

[mwilson]

Then I think I would unhook the transmission return and pump a case of ATF+4 through it before I started on the engine flush.





I still think that is worth a shot.

Being a cheapskate from Maine and all... ... .....



Mike.

 

[NIsaacs]

Then I think I would unhook the transmission return and pump a case of ATF+4 through it before I started on the engine flush.





I still think that is worth a shot.

Being a cheapskate from Maine and all... ... .....



Mike.

Lol, a case of atf+4 ain't cheap I don't know a thing about the Dodge auto's. If it were an old C-6 in a Ford I would not hesitate one minute to fill it full of diesel and flush it at the same time. However they have a converter drain plug. I don't know if the Dodge has one or not. If the transmission has to come out, then I would wait and do the engine while it was out.



Nick

 

[cerberusiam]

Pump and converter still turns in park, not a good idea to run without something in there.



Considering the price of diesel, the cheapest generic ATF is probably the best bet. Does not have to be ATF+4 just something to keep things lubed and cut the sludge.



High detergent hydraulic oil would work also but it ain't cheap either. I think I would go with the cheapest ATF possible to flush the engine then yank the trans for a rebuild. Trans will porbably work after changing out the gov solenoid but I would not trust it out of town.

 

[sag2]

Just use tap water and soap until it comes clean. Then you can worry about using distilled water. But I would not worry about it for the short term. For the trans, go to Wal-Mart and get three or four gallons of the least expensive (I think the Dexron/Mercon in gallons) fluid they have. As was mentioned, not to worry about the type, first concern is to get the water out and clean fluid back in. The trans is going to take a few gallons to flush properly. You might want to loose the deep pan for now until you get it clean and have the final flush done with the ATF+4.

I'm assuming you changed the cooler first. And yes with the cap loose the hose will not blow off. Again don't worry about getting all the water out, just keep flushing and work on volume.

 

[TGVET]

Just use tap water and soap until it comes clean. Then you can worry about using distilled water. But I would not worry about it for the short term. For the trans, go to Wal-Mart and get three or four gallons of the least expensive (I think the Dexron/Mercon in gallons) fluid they have. As was mentioned, not to worry about the type, first concern is to get the water out and clean fluid back in. The trans is going to take a few gallons to flush properly. You might want to loose the deep pan for now until you get it clean and have the final flush done with the ATF+4.

I'm assuming you changed the cooler first. And yes with the cap loose the hose will not blow off. Again don't worry about getting all the water out, just keep flushing and work on volume.

Sag, NO. All is still intact. Are you referring to the trans-cooler OR the heat exchanger ?



If the heat exchanger, I don't know what the internals of that are like as compared to the cooler and my concern is the new H. E. which I don't want to mess up by purging goo through it.



If you're referring to the trans-cooler, my thought was to completely bypass that and the H. E. as well if possible by connecting tubing with hose clamps during the flushing process prior to draining/purging via the return line.



And of course trying to do all this w/o making a big mess. .

 

[TGVET]

Update

Starting 3rd flush today, still lots of nasty coming out trans and cooling. I bypassed the heat exchanger from the cooling, and am now thinking about bypassing the trans on it as well by connecting output line direct to return connection and stop trying to flush my lines and the trans cooler. I'm looking into ordering a new cooler today, may lines too. Not putting the new exchanger on until all is clean.



Any thoughts ?



Thanks again guys. Rob