Help !! transmission fluid in radiator

[mwilson]

Patience and fortitude at this point.

Keep going, fill, heat it up, drain, repeat, etc.



You could bypass the front cooler for now, maybe that would help.



If the front cooler is real nasty (and it sounds like it is) you could take it off and take it to a radiator shop where they could hot tank it. Should be considerably cheaper that buying a new one.



I'm feeling your pain, it is no fun cleaning up after a mess like that.



Mike.

 

[TGVET]

Patience and fortitude at this point.

Keep going, fill, heat it up, drain, repeat, etc.



You could bypass the front cooler for now, maybe that would help.



If the front cooler is real nasty (and it sounds like it is) you could take it off and take it to a radiator shop where they could hot tank it. Should be considerably cheaper that buying a new one.



I'm feeling your pain, it is no fun cleaning up after a mess like that.



Mike.

Thank Mike. I was sourcing parts from Moparparts.com, coolers, lines,hose,etc. etc. . Any thoughts on parts buying other than them ? Got the haet-exch. for 349. 00 direct from Cummin's, good buy there.



Taking trans cooler and radiator in to get cleaned seems logical, but read some threads back about the trans cooler probably not getting cleaned good enough to reuse. Also, I am thinking about a remote spin-on trans filter now (read back a ways someone did it) and sounds like a good idea.



I would imagine the trans lines will clean up OK.



Rob

 

[mwilson]

I think that the lines will be fine, too bad to replace them.



I just changed one and I priced all three while I had them looked up, over $200. 00 for all of them.

Those should clean out OK, even if you have to pull them off to do it.



The cooler up front is going to be a Mopar item, the guys can suggest the best on-line Mopar source for you.



In my opinion the two coolers on these trucks are very efficient, it will be hard to find anything else aftermarket that will match the performance in both hot and cold conditions. Plus getting something mounted and plumbed up will be more aggravation on top of everything else that you are dealing with right now.



Give the local radiator shops a call and get some pricing for the hot tank cleaning, also ask about the success rate with a situation like yours.



Mike.

 

[cerberusiam]

The lines should flush fine except for the one with the check ball in it. That will be problematic to get clean. Likely have to replace it or drill it out.



The front cooler is also a little touchy. The thermostat needs to be pulled first before any cleaning is done, then, a way to block the bypass to flush the main body has to be setup, same for flushing the bypass.



There is one sealing o-ring that is special material ans size that seals the thermostat and it is the problem as it is no serviced. You will need to find the size and type or it will leak.



Since you are flushing just bypass the front cooler and and just dump it out the front cooler line until it is clean, which it probably will never be. At some point you just have to give up and pull the trans cuz the water and coolant is in every corner and it impossible to flush it all. The sludge will never come out and will always be in there floating looking for an excuse to dislodge.

 

[TGVET]

The lines should flush fine except for the one with the check ball in it. That will be problematic to get clean. Likely have to replace it or drill it out.



The front cooler is also a little touchy. The thermostat needs to be pulled first before any cleaning is done, then, a way to block the bypass to flush the main body has to be setup, same for flushing the bypass.



There is one sealing o-ring that is special material ans size that seals the thermostat and it is the problem as it is no serviced. You will need to find the size and type or it will leak.



Since you are flushing just bypass the front cooler and and just dump it out the front cooler line until it is clean, which it probably will never be. At some point you just have to give up and pull the trans cuz the water and coolant is in every corner and it impossible to flush it all. The sludge will never come out and will always be in there floating looking for an excuse to dislodge.

Cerb,



I've been flushing the heck out of block and the trans. I removed the guts of the T-stat, ran nearly a gallon of liquid dishwasher det. mixed w/hot H2o 8 or 9 times now, draining via the lower hose and the petcock, I'm not getting anymore pink from the cooling. As for the H2o T-stat, I know about it and the O-ring and have sourced it.



I've got 14 gals. distilled H20 and was going to do a "final flushing" with it adding 3 to 4 remaining gals. plus 3 gals. of G-05 concentrate. Unless presumed I still have more to do first ?



Re: "Front cooler T-stat. " Are you referring to the trans cooler ? I have not pulled that and don't know where it is. You referred to bypassing and blocking it. I'm confused, are you referring to engine cooling or trans cooling ?



Which line has the "check ball" ?



"Bypass the front cooler" ? I have been flushing through the cooler and doing a combination of dumping the pan, refilling and then out the rear line. So far, 8 gals. it is getting much better and going to do another 3 or more gals. today until it looks like clean trans fluid w/o any pink then install the new heat exchanger and put it all back together. Including the fenders which I had to take off for ease of accessing and removing the coolant reservoir and the exchanger.







Thanks again Cerb/Mike.



Rob



PS. I have been talking with a guy at NAPA and he has an 03 w/48RE and it has no heat exchanger. WHY did they go to that in the 04+ ??



PSS. What would cause the heat exchanger to fail ? Seems that's not been discussed yet.

 

[RDeFayette]

Trans cooler t. stat.

Found my transmission overheating issue... . 48RE running Hot? - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum



Check ball line. Rubber/flex line near drivers side front of engine with brass/copper end.

48RE Check ball/ valve removal - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum



The '03's DO come from the factory with the heat exchanger. Apparently the guy at the NAPA stored either had someone or he removed/bypassed it. Wouldn't be the 1st time.

 

[cerberusiam]

The line with the check ball is the one under the driver side battery that has the union in it. The check ball is the long brass part of the line that has the rubber part on it. It would be the top line out of the heat exchanger.



The front air-to-fluid cooler is between the CAC and the radiator. If you look down just in front of the radiator you can see it. The upper cooler is the trans cooler, the lower cooler is the power steering.



The front trans cooler has a thermostat in the upper right corner as viewed from the front of the truck. This thermostat does not open until fluid temp exceeds 140 degrees. Until it opens the fluid just bypasses around the bulk of the cooler. You can't flush the main body of the cooler unless the thermostat is removed and the bypass line blocked. Thats why the typical repsonse is replace them when a trans gets pooched, tought to clean. The thermostat has a special size and composition o-ring under the cap that retains the thermostat. That o-ring or thermostat is not serviced seprately AFAIK. You have to get the correct size and composition or it will leak and puke trans fluid all over the front of the radiator and truck.



All auto Dodge trucks from 1989 to present have come with a heat exchanger as standard equipment. Only way they could keep the transmission cool enough to last. If someone has a truck that does not have one it has been removed, or, the trans swapped from a manual.



The heat exchanger is a set of tubes or plates that puts transmission fluid and coolant in close contact with each other thru a metal that has a high transfer rate. This means the metal is generally soft and thin to effect heat transfer. The maount of vibration a diesel engine produces is significant so eventually a tube or a solder joint may give way. The engine oil cooler is the same design and probably has about the same failure rate. If QA is not good or they source too cheap a part problems will ensue.

 

[TGVET]

Cerb, RD,

Thanks for the info. Yesterday I pulled the HE out, what a *****. Fortunately, I am fairly well tooled up w/ metric and SAE basics plus a few. All lines undone, I had to undue the 4 bolts holding it to the plate, it was in the way keeping my wrenches from getting to the lower left 15mm bolt. I thought I would have to take off the starter but so far, not the case. Had to dislodge the + battery cable holder from the plate also as it was in the way of the 15mm bolt, first slip the +batt cable boot off the starter bolt (remove cable from battery first and foremost). Once the various cables were free from their holding points I was then able to undue the bolt and remove the plate. Sliding the new HE up in from below, jockeying in around the lines and such finally got it in position. (I removed the fender and the driver wheel previously for ease of access) I'm hoping to to be able to get the 15mm bolt in place and tight. I did not notice any loctite on the the three holding the plate to the block, I'm thinking lock washers or loctite ?

 

[RDeFayette]

Cerb, RD,

Thanks for the info. Yesterday I pulled the HE out, what a *****. Fortunately, I am fairly well tooled up w/ metric and SAE basics plus a few. All lines undone, I had to undue the 4 bolts holding it to the plate, it was in the way keeping my wrenches from getting to the lower left 15mm bolt. I thought I would have to take off the starter but so far, not the case. Had to dislodge the + battery cable holder from the plate also as it was in the way of the 15mm bolt, first slip the +batt cable boot off the starter bolt (remove cable from battery first and foremost). Once the various cables were free from their holding points I was then able to undue the bolt and remove the plate. Sliding the new HE up in from below, jockeying in around the lines and such finally got it in position. (I removed the fender and the driver wheel previously for ease of access) I'm hoping to to be able to get the 15mm bolt in place and tight. I did not notice any loctite on the the three holding the plate to the block, I'm thinking lock washers or loctite ?

Either or which ever is easiest, I prefer lock-tite. Make sure you support the HE when tightening the trans lines, don't want to put anymore stress on it (HE) than necessary. When you do tighten them down also make sure that they aren't tightened down in a "bind" condition exerting any force on the HE.

 

[TGVET]

Thanks RD.

Had to take out 3 12point bolts holding the starter then tilt down slightly to get on the 15mm bolt, not too bad with 10mm box and angle ratcheting wrench and 10mm socket and not needing to remove completely. I used blue loctite on the HE mtng. plate bolts and locking nuts on the starter bolts. Unfortunately I didn't get your earlier reply on tightening the lines but I feel that I didn't reef like heck on them and they are not leaking. It took approx 4 gals of Amsoil ATF.



New thermostat is a 180 deg not 190 as was stock, I was told by the diesel parts guy it was the same number crossed to a NAPA one for my truck. Should it be 190 and if so, why ?

 

[RDeFayette]

Thanks RD.

Had to take out 3 12point bolts holding the starter then tilt down slightly to get on the 15mm bolt, not too bad with 10mm box and angle ratcheting wrench and 10mm socket and not needing to remove completely. I used blue loctite on the HE mtng. plate bolts and locking nuts on the starter bolts. Unfortunately I didn't get your earlier reply on tightening the lines but I feel that I didn't reef like heck on them and they are not leaking. It took approx 4 gals of Amsoil ATF.



New thermostat is a 180 deg not 190 as was stock, I was told by the diesel parts guy it was the same number crossed to a NAPA one for my truck. Should it be 190 and if so, why ?

I honestly don't know if it'll make a difference.

The computer might be looking for 190 that's the only reason it migt make a difference.

If it wasn't computer controlled it wouldn't.

 

[TCDiesel]

OK. . We have Heat exchangers on every truck in America (Bio-Clean 4 Per unit). . if You want these Exchangers to last Lifetime listen carefully (BC) if I am challenged I will NO longer post in this thread (Questions are ok) You NEED to keep the system (Coolant/Fluid) free form any type of air contamination. . the trans fluid is basically simple. . Service regularly . . DO NOT flush. . Some Garages that do NOT know what they are doing will use chemicals that are not exchanger friendly. . If they are NOT careful and remove 100% of the chemicals ... if they know what and how to remove 100% it works fine. . Do at your own risk.

The coolant requires more care, YOU MUST KEEP THE SYSTEM coolant AIR FREE . . this means knowing what you are doing at drain intrevals. . YOU MUST KEEP THE DE-GAS BOTTLE CLEAN AND AT PROPER LEVELS, check radiator cap or just replace, if Air is allowed to enter the system its only time before corrosions begins. . keep the factory coolant for 4-5 years before service. . rumor has it factory coolants have special additives to prevent this and leaks to seals and gaskets. Check fluid life yearly. . do not service unnecessarily.



I have seen these heat exchanger in like new condition after 10 years of service, generally thier failures are related to contamination or lack of care,they rarely leak.

 

[NIsaacs]

I would not use the 180. The Cummins is more efficient at 190, also the cab heaters on our trucks are crummy at best.



Adding to TC's comments, I will also say, always use distilled water or pre-mix, not just at service time, but anytime. If you add tap water because you are on the road and don't have distilled water, you contaminate the whole works. This is just in general, the OP already knows this.



Nick

 

[TCDiesel]

Thanks. . that was important . . and I forgot to add it.

 

[TGVET]

Nick, TC

OK guys I've never flushed my trans or the cooling system up until now. Truck has never been to the stealership except for when I bought it new. The ONLY reason I have "flushed" them is because of the HE failure. In doing so with the cooling, I followed advice from others here using liquid DW soap mixed with hot tap (well) water. Loosened the T-stat for air while filling, tightened, run up to temp, dump via lower hose and petcock, repeated until no more pink. Final flushing with distilled twice, then 2. 5gals of GL5 and 3gals of distilled. I also cleaned the coolant tank out like new (it had what looked like algae settled in the bottom where the feed tube is. I also flushed the feed tube.



Other than the above, the lower coolant hose on the HE failed last August while driving, temp gauge got up to 220? Pulled into store parking lot and did a fix there adding 5 or 6 gals of distilled then getting home, draining out 3 gals via petcock replacing with ES Complete. I've only drained the cooling system one other time about 3yrs back via the petcock and added ES Complete.



Prior to doing my own work, I contacted my local shop, the only other that has worked on my truck. Owner runs a Duramax, they do seem knowledgeable, but after researching here, I felt what they were going to do (flushing cooling and trans) and the time they quoted on the repairs (not enough) I was not comfortable. Yeah, perhaps they could have done it in less time, perhaps they would have lifted the body off the frame as they had just done on my friends F150 Triton to rebuild the heads and piston issues, but this was not a Ford. And I am pretty sure I (hopefully) saved myself in access of $1500. 00 or more in labor. So far, I'm out my time and the cost of parts $350. for HE, roughly $350. 00 for cheap trans fluid and Amsoil fluid, distilled H2O, T-stat, trans filters and replacement 3/4" hoses for the HE.



TC, you stated "I have seen these heat exchanger in like new condition after 10 years of service, generally their failures are related to contamination or lack of care,they rarely leak. " What type of care ?



Today I am going to replace the T-stat with a 190.



Thanks again guys for all the input.



Rob

 

[TCDiesel]

Make Sure De-gas bottle is adequate and radiator cap does NOT allow air to enter ( other then the snorkel tube ). . I did Not like the 03 location of the degas bottle so I removed it and replace it with rider side small bottle on the wheel liner. . it is much lower here. . that way I can fill the De-gas bottle with the line form the radiator Cap. ( I don't want air even in the line). Some systems require the de-gas bottle to be higher then the radiator,so don't apply this to every coolant systems,Just Cummins RAM.

 

[TGVET]

OK guys, thanks again for the points. I did install a new 190 from Cummins, 10. 00 less than the 180 from Motor Trucks. Go figure



Is the De-gas bottle the same thing as the reserve/overflow tank ? I see nothing in my manual stating "De-gas bottle" And if there is air in the system, how best to remove it ? Manual states, starting the engine, turn heater to"Full- On position" (as in max heat ?) Then turn engine off. Open drain. Open radiator cap half way.



Is there a better way to purge air out of the system ?

 

[NIsaacs]

Any updates? Are you up and running?



Nick

 

[TGVET]

Any updates? Are you up and running?



Nick

Yes. Stock pan is on, 2nd drain Sunday Amsoil, getting finger nail size pieces of material, must be friction plate stuff. Going to keep driving and draining, probably filter the drains and, reuse as it looks clean now. Wondering if the flakes just settle in the pan and not lodging in the lines or coolers ? Thanks for enquiring.

 

[cerberusiam]

The friction material form the clutch packs will just drop into the pan, what can get out anyway. What stays in the clutch packs will stay and clog the vents.



TC clutch friction material will go thru the cooler.



If you are seeing flakes of friction material its only a matter of time. The glue that holds the friction material on is water soluble. As it deteriorates it just gets messier.



Rebuilding now before a major failure is advisable. Just an FYI, a new direct drum for a 48RE is over $600 retail. Save the hard parts as much as possible.