Intake grid heater coming on while driving

[dodgeliner]

My 2005 3500 diesel has been having some "code" issues and the Grid heater comes on while driving. I was traveling pulling my 14K horse trailer when this started. I found a dealer to run the DX and they stated it was the Ambient air temp sensor and the MASS air flow sensor in the intake. They would have to order the parts, so I drove it home limping. I replaced both sensors, the truck seemed to be ok for a few days, then when I left this morning to go on Vacation pulling my trailer, it started doing it again. I hear a ding, ding, ding and the heater grid light is on the dash and if I keep driving it in a few minutes I would loose power, most likely because it is heating the intake air and it is 90 degrees outside. The check engine light doesn't come on, but I am showing code P1223 Unknown Code. I had just left home, so I went and unhooked the trailer and took it to the dealer. I just recieved a call from them stating they can't duplicate the problem and I can pick my truck up. Does anyone know what could cause this, as I know it is not fixed and don't know who else to take it to?

 

[Prairie Dog]

I'm not sure about your 05 but 06 and later trucks do this grid heater thing when your injector return rate is too high. I know, weird but that's how Dodge does it.
I'm surprised the "Lamp out" notification doesn't have the seat moving up and down.

 

[LNaugle]

prarie dog... how does the truck know the injector return rate is high?

 

[Prairie Dog]

I don't have the faintest idea.

I've just read of this scenario enough times to recognize it.



But, I'm guessing there are more knowledgeable guys out there.

Calling Sag2. .

 

[DonFitzwater]

If you search your code you will find a post by Sag that lists what is going on. You have a fuel system failure going on of some type. A return test should be performed, a cylinder balance test as well as a test of your oil for fuel dilution. I was confused as hell when this happened to my truck and it turned out to be a single injector bypassing too much fuel. Good luck!



DIAGNOSTIC PROCEDURE P1222 - LEAK DETECTION DURING MOTORING

NOTE: For a complete wiring diagram, refer to the Wiring Information.

When engine is motoring (i. e. Engine is running, but requires no fuel injection) the only

required fuel delivery to the rail is due to natural leakage in the system. The natural

leakage depends directly on the rail pressure. A definite amount of fuel is required to

overcome the natural leakage, for different fuel pressures. The Engine Control Module

(ECM) sets Leakage Detected, when the fuel flow exceeds an expected value. When a

leak is detected in the system, a counter is initiated. When the counter reaches a

predetermined value a fault is set and engine derate is enabled. When the leak is not

detected the counter counts down, and once the counter becomes zero the engine is set

back to normal running conditions.

**A solid Wait to Start lamp will illuminate in the cluster along with chiming 10 times.

When the fault goes inactive, it will clear the wait to start lamp with no chimes**.

• When Monitored: Engine is motoring and at operating temperature with no fuel

system and engine speed related DTC's.

• Set Condition: Counter reaches a calibrated value.

Possible Causes

EXCESSIVE INJECTOR RETURN

NOTE: Always perform the Pre-Diagnostic Troubleshooting procedure before

proceeding.

OTHER DTC's PRESENT

1. Turn the ignition on.

2. With the scan tool, select View DTC's. Are there any other fuel system related DTC's

present along with this DTC?

a. Yes >>> Perform the diagnostics for the other fuel system DTC's before proceeding.

b. No >>>> Perform the INJECTOR RETURN FLOW TEST procedure.

18-006-12 -6-

DIAGNOSTIC PROCEDURE P1223 - LEAK DETECTION BASED ON QUANTITY

BALANCE

NOTE: For a complete wiring diagram, refer to the Wiring Information.

There is a required amount of fuel required by the fuel system to keep the system stable.

The amount of fuel required depends on fuel pressure, injection quantity, engine speed,

and coolant temperature. The Engine Control Module (ECM) sets Leakage Detected, when

the fuel flow exceeds an expected value. When a leak is detected in the system, a counter

is initiated. When the counter reaches a predetermined value a fault is set and engine

derate is enabled. When the leak is not detected the counter counts down, and once the

counter becomes zero the engine is set back to normal running conditions.

**A solid Wait to Start lamp will illuminate in the cluster along with chiming 10 times.

When the fault goes inactive, it will clear the wait to start lamp with no chimes**.

• When Monitored: Engine is running above low idle speed and at operating

temperature with no fuel system and engine speed related DTC's.

• Set Condition: Counter reaches a calibrated value.

Always perform the Pre-Diagnostic Troubleshooting procedure before proceeding.

Possible Causes

EXCESSIVE INJECTOR RETURN

NOTE: Always perform the Pre-Diagnostic Troubleshooting procedure before

proceeding.

OTHER DTC's PRESENT

1. Turn the ignition on.

2. With the scan tool, select View DTC's. Are there any other fuel system related DTC's

present along with this DTC?

a. Yes >>> Perform the diagnostics for the other fuel system DTC's before proceeding.

b. No >>>> Perform the INJECTOR RETURN FLOW TEST procedure.

__________________

 

[BGlidewell]

weak batteries do some weird stuff...

 

[dodgeliner]

This sounds like what is happening on my truck. Thank you very much DFitzwater. I printed a copy and went back to the dealer, spoke with the service manager and he stated they would look at it again. They checked everything and stated it was up to date according to their Dx equipment. I needed to try something as I know it is a serious problem, so I asked them to reflash the ECM. ( I thought it may help). They stated they would do it, but wouldn't guarantee that would fix anything. I stated I was willing to try something vs nothing, and paid them $95. 00. That was Monday. Tuesday I hooked up my trailer, drove an hour away for a job and had a P018 (High Pressure Common Rail- HPCR checksum) and check engine light came on. I cleared it and around 15 minutes later, the chimes started and the coil light came on and went off around a minute later. It came back on again in around 10 minutes and showed codes P1223 and P1222. Today coming home, The coil light and dinging started in around 10 minutes and would not even go off. Every little grade, my transmission downshifted trying to keep up the 65 mph speed limit and some hills I was down to 50mph as the engine has no power. So far I am out $550 and still nothing is fixed. I don't know where to go from here... Should I try another dealer in a different city or does anyone know of a good diesel mechanic around Winston Salem, NC????

 

[Prairie Dog]

A checksum error makes it sound like they either botched the SW download or your computer has an issue. Since it just did it after a download I would think the dealer goofed.
Has the dealer specifically performed an Injector return rate test?
It possible the tech does not know what the WTS light coming on means.

 

[dodgeliner]

Thanks for your input Perie Dog. . As for the dealers "diesel" tech, I am starting to get the feeling that all he knows is to hook up their computer and see if it tells him what to do. I guess after spending $550 so far with no results I am a slow learner. They say they can't duplicate the error. I stated (sarcastically) well if he was driving the truck and heard 10 dings and the coil light came on and the engine went into a derated mode and showed P1223 and P1222 what would he do??? I never got an answer. It seems strange that even after giving them a printout of the above solution, they couldn't figure out what to do... I do feel very strongly that it is a bad fuel injector, but unfortunately don't have the knowledge or equipment to fix it.

 

[cerberusiam]

They say they can't duplicate the error. I stated (sarcastically) well if he was driving the truck and heard 10 dings and the coil light came on and the engine went into a derated mode and showed P1223 and P1222 what would he do??? I never got an answer.

. . and that's pretty much your answer. The alleged diesel tech doesn't have a clue and the service manager is not going to let him dig, probably too many oil changes waiting to be done.



With what was posted earlier and even a rudimentary idea what to do, they should have had it fixed by now. Unfortunately you are goin to have to find a dealer or independent shop that has a clue.



Sometimes that is harder to do than fix the problem.

 

[Prairie Dog]

This brings a question to mind; Is there some kind of certification a real dealer diesel tech gets that we could ask to see?

 

[cerberusiam]

This brings a question to mind; Is there some kind of certification a real dealer diesel tech gets that we could ask to see?

Oh, that is a can of worms. :-laf



Sag2 and Bob4x4 could probably enumerate the certifications and training corporate has available. Whether the SM or dealership would tell you is another question entirely.



All that aside, it may not matter how much training the tech has if they cannot use the old Mark I. You can teach a human and monkey to do the same tasks, but, the monkey will seldom ever think abstractly and grow their knowledge. Some people are the same way, what they learned is what they know and thats it.



Knd of like the MicroSoft MCSE certification. It matters what you can do with it, not that you have it.

 

[mwilson]

From what I have witnessed in this neck of the woods, if the Tech is any good with the Cummins engines he will leave the Dodge Dealer eventually and do one of the following...



(1) Open his own shop, most likely owns his own shop tools and diagnostic equipment at that point anyways.



(2) Come to work for a truck dealership, truck work pays quite a bit more and less flat rate BS to deal with. (We do not flat rate at all, for example)...



Takes a pretty good Dodge dealership to hang on to a qualified Diesel tech.



Mike.

 

[AH64ID]

The WTS light issue is supposed to be a glitch in the latest Chrysler software. As most older truck owners aren't doing updates the "glitch" rate has been high among Smarty users as they always use the latest Chrysler software.

Did you do a recent SW flash or update?

NUMBER: 18-006-12
GROUP: Vehicle Performance
DATE: February 04, 2012




THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES SERVICE BULLETIN 18-011-11 REV. B. , DATED JULY
1, 2011, WHICH SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM YOUR FILES. ALL REVISIONS ARE
HIGHLIGHTED WITH **ASTERISKS** AND INCLUDE ADDITIONAL OVERVIEW AND
DIAGNOSTIC INFORMATION.
HELP USING THE wiTECH DIAGNOSTIC APPLICATION FOR FLASHING AN ECU IS
AVAILABLE BY SELECTING “HELP” THEN “HELP CONTENTS” AT THE TOP OF
THE wiTECH DIAGNOSTIC APPLICATION WINDOW.
THE wiTECH SOFTWARE LEVEL MUST BE AT RELEASE 12. 02 OR HIGHER TO
PERFORM THIS PROCEDURE.
THE DRBIII® FLASH FILES FOR THIS BULLETIN ARE AVAILABLE ON
DealerCONNECT.
SUBJECT:
Flash: Diagnostic Enhancements For Fuel System
OVERVIEW:
This bulletin provides Engine Control Module (ECM) software enhancements to improve
robustness to fuel system issue detection and two new Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC's).
This bulletin involves selectively erasing and reprogramming the Engine Control Module
(ECM) with new software.
Diagnostic procedures for these new DTC's are included in this Service Bulletin on the last
2 pages which may be printed.
The two new injector Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC's) for excessive injector return flow
are:
· P1222 - LEAK DETECTION DURING MOTORING
· P1223 - LEAK DETECTION BASED ON QUANTITY BALANCE
**When the fault(s) occur, a solid Wait to Start lamp will illuminate in the cluster along with
chiming 10 times. When the fault goes inactive, it will clear the wait to start lamp with no
chimes**.

That is the update that has a glitch.

 

[cerberusiam]

That is the update that has a glitch.

Why do you say it is a glitch?



From reading the description it is a feature that is specifically programmed in to alert the owner of problems.

 

[AH64ID]

MADS has put out that it goes off when it's not supposed it, something with the tuning makes it a glitch on programmed and stock trucks.

I am not 100% sure on the details thou.

 

[JFN]

I had this problem leaving for Cheyenne a week back, Had the Smarty on sw1? economy? and around 3000' in the mountains the chime went off and the WTS light came on. I stopped at my normal rest area going twards Reno and the truck was very hard to start, I might add I didn't loose any power, so when I reached Fernley Nevada I restorde the factory settings and removed the Smarty Jr. Everything went back to normal, Now I afraid to re-program with the Smarty, just an expensive box riding around in my truck. I emailed Bob a 2 weeks ago, but have not had a reply.

 

[AH64ID]

The WTS issue is still in your truck, it's part of Chrysler software and not MADS.

Try the latest MADS update.

 

[JFN]

The WTS issue is still in your truck, it's part of Chrysler software and not MADS.

Try the latest MADS update.

Thanks, now which update do I need?

Kind of on the same thing, and a bit of a rant, I have given up the practice of buying from the discount houses, I bought a Pac-brake and air system to find out I didn't get a pressure switch, contact the discount house and they said they would sell me one at cost, $50. 00+, I said thanks and called Pac-brake, they put one in the mail and informed the company I bought from was not a Dealer, Now I buy a Smarty Jr, that needs updating and third I bought a trailer leveling system and come to find out the name has been changed for 2 years, Ive had it, I'm going to pay more and get current stuff, all the hassle and phone calls and shipping just make it the same price. Thanks for the Info AH64ID, Ops rant Off.

 

[AH64ID]

The latest one for your tuner.