Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) zddp additives

[Tractorat]

Guess I asked the question wrong in a previous thread.



Who is using a zddp additive in their dino oil ? What kind, and how much do you use ?



Thanks

 

[BIGNASTY]

Trat
I asked the lab rat where I use to work about things like this, in fact im not positive about it but I think its the one that you have posted. I don't know if he knows **** but he's got more than a couple of Official looking Diplomas from some really good schools. He said that some of that wont mix up well with some oils!!!! just food for thought!

 

[fox]

It was explained to me like this.
Adding anything to your oil COULD be bad.

It is like this, if you bake cookies, and decide you like eggs so you put 6 in instead of 1 or two as the recipe calls for, you could cause a reaction that will seperate something.

 

[Tractorat]

Well, I sent an email to Cummins, and this is what I got back.

Cummins' only recommendation for oil is use of a 15W-40 weight that is API certified CJ-4 Low Ash oil meeting Cummins Engineering Standard 20081. Oil meeting the CJ-4/CES 20081 oil standard is backwards compatible with previous engines, and therefore is acceptable for use in your unit. All Cummins engines come from the factory containing Valvoline Premium Blue 15W-40 (a synthetic blend); however, we do not endorse any brand of oil. As long as it meets the specifications, it is acceptable for use.







Thank you for choosing Cummins. Have a great day!

Im now completely confused. So, I guess what Ill do is either just continue on with plain old delo, or start using a synthetic. Rotella ?

 

[BIGNASTY]

Trat

Give these folks a call they can tell you what products and where in your area that you can still get the OLD STYLE Delo 400 at, they will say its an OFF ROAD OIL but its the same old stuff that was around for YEARS before the DPF guys screwed up everything with the crap exhaust. They still make it cause when we were in So Ca recently I picked up some from the EL Segundo refinery for my use at home
Delo 400 NG SAE 15W-40 »looks like what they call it now Im to far away from the shop and its raining out to go see what it says on the 55 gal drums that I have but I looked it up on the second link where it says engine oils click on that and a dropdown comes up with them all


http://elsegundo.chevron.com/home.aspx

http://m.chevrondelo.com/products/engine-oils/engine-oils-multigrade-15w-40.aspx

 

[Tractorat]

Thanks Bignasty,
Ill give them a try.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

For anything earlier than 2007. 5, I like the old formulation CI4+ oil that does not meet CJ specs. I have a large supply of it, Delo 400 15-40 and since I have the "new Ram disease" I suppose I will have to offload it and get some CJ oil. There is no way I can use all of it in my 1966 Olds, for which it is an ideal oil as well as for diesels.

 

[Bob V]

I was just at a parts store and saw lucas HIGH TBN 15-40. Dont know much about it thought
http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=48&catid=13&loc=show

 

[Cosmo]

Of course Cummins is going to say to use the current oil... if they say anything else, they're basically telling you that the old oil is better (which it is) but the new motors can't use it due to EPA emissions equipment requirements (which is true), ergo your new diesel truck you just dropped $60k+ on won't last as long as the old one you just got rid of... .

Looks bad for business.


However, if you've got a non-emissions diesel truck, ZDDP or CI-4+ oils are the way to go.

 

[BIGNASTY]

Of course Cummins is going to say to use the current oil... if they say anything else, they're basically telling you that the old oil is better (which it is) but the new motors can't use it due to EPA emissions equipment requirements (which is true), ergo your new diesel truck you just dropped $60k+ on won't last as long as the old one you just got rid of... .



Looks bad for business.



From their standpoint WHY WOULD THEY WANT TO STOCK 2 oils inventory costs money.



As long as most run the oil in our trucks, Would there REALLY be a difference??? not that we could see in the lifetime use of our trucks. IMO The only reason that I use the old Delo is cause I can still get it, and why not its FREE.

 

[HBarlow]

Well, I sent an email to Cummins, and this is what I got back.

Im now completely confused. So, I guess what Ill do is either just continue on with plain old delo, or start using a synthetic. Rotella ?

Why would you be confused? I'll make you a bet that your original 2002 owner's manual prescribed ordinay dinosaur oils and advised that additives are unnecessary and not recommended back in 2002 when you bought the truck and still contains the same words today.

Magic snake oils are best used to lubricate wallets so that buyer's money can slide out of them.

 

[Tractorat]

Why would you be confused? I'll make you a bet that your original 2002 owner's manual prescribed ordinay dinosaur oils and advised that additives are unnecessary and not recommended back in 2002 when you bought the truck and still contains the same words today

The confusing part is that the oil today is not the same as it was in 2002. If you buy a new truck today, you cannot use the same oil as was on the market in 2002.

 

[BIGNASTY]

The confusing part is that the oil today is not the same as it was in 2002. If you buy a new truck today, you cannot use the same oil as was on the market in 2002.

Im with you on the oil is NOT the same as it was Trat. Im no authority or surely not some lab technician that can make a definitive answer to this question of, Is the new oil as good as the old? I don't think that ANY OF US are equipped to make that decision. But I have always been of the thought that once you start a motor with a type of oil YOU STICK WITH IT, right or wrong again I DONT KNOW its just the way that I have thought. I know guys that buy WHAT EVER OIL that is on sale and this has worked for them,their thought is OIL is OIL. This is why I have stayed with the old type Delo and will continue to stay with it until its no longer available. I have never thought that adding some after market additive to oil was a good thing, and have never gave synthetic oil much thought as being anything other than SALES HYPE!!! Have been told that synthetic oil suspends contaminates better than Dino oil and there for makes it better and last longer,I don't buy that either. I change my oil NOT because it wears out ( I don't think that is a real possibility) I change the oil to get the dirt OUT of my motor and by using the synthetic oil longer with more suspended contaminants in it is just circulating dirty oil longer.

 

[Cosmo]

Padding your post count, Harvey?
It's true, the owner's manual back in 02 probably suggested using the industry standard CI-4 oil of the day.

Magic snake oil additives weren't as important back then.


Now that we've got CJ-4 oil, it's more important.


Why? What has changed? The EPA emissions mandate as of 1/1/07. Manufacturers are required to figure out how to make DPFs last 150k miles before having to be removed for cleaning. The additives in CI-4 oils are what make it great. They are what prevent wear. ALL oil has additives in it - the manufacturers of oil put additive packages in - that's what makes one oil different than another. Same story with fuel. It's the additives.

I'm just going to quote someone else here - someone with a lot more credibility than myself:

Low SA (less than 1 percent weight) effectively places a limit on the amount of detergent which can be used in these oils. But diesels love detergents. In over 25 years of inspecting various diesel engines in the field, I've yet to see one which didn't perform better on oils with higher levels of detergency.

Low P means the Feds placed a limit on the amount of Zincdithiophosphate (ZDP) additive which can be utilized. ZDP is the most effective oxidation inhibitor and anti-wear agent currently available. Additive manufacturers are now forced to use more expensive and less effective ashless oxidation inhibitors and anti* wear agents.

Low S means the new oils can't rely on some of the least expensive Sulfur-based oxidation inhibitors they used in the past. And, once again, many of the new ashless oxidation inhibitors haven't been thoroughly field proven in heavily loaded trucks. Low S means more highly refined base oils, which is a positive thing. Average base oil quality is now significantly improved.

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/tdrarticles/tdrarticle54_CJ4LubeOil.html


So if you want the best oxidation and wear protection available, ZDDP is a great product to add to the CJ-4 oil.

 

[HBarlow]

The confusing part is that the oil today is not the same as it was in 2002. If you buy a new truck today, you cannot use the same oil as was on the market in 2002.

Uhhhhh, I guess that's true but so what? New oils designed and produced for the new engines are sold everywhere. The new oils are also backward compatible for older trucks.

 

[Tractorat]

Uhhhhh, I guess that's true but so what? New oils designed and produced for the new engines are sold everywhere. The new oils are also backward compatible for older trucks.

You're arguing with the wrong guy here, because I dont know. But if your argument is the newer oil is better because it is newer, that doesnt hold water. The oil was changed because of a mandate from the epa to lower emissions. At any cost. And they dont care who gets screwed. If the new product causes damage and limits the life of older cars and trucks, more the better. The sooner they will be off of the streets. Remember "cash for clunkers" ?

 

[Cosmo]

Uhhhhh, I guess that's true but so what? New oils designed and produced for the new engines are sold everywhere. The new oils are also backward compatible for older trucks.

*sigh*



Do you have me on ignore, is that why you would say this?



Yeah, of COURSE they're going to say the oil is backward compatible... . because they want to eliminate confusion and reduce warranty claims on newer trucks that need the newer, crappier oil.



The fact is that the old oil HAS the ZDP in it that was removed from the new oil. The ZDDP additive puts it back in. The newer base oils are better, however the older additive packages are much better for longevity of your engine.



Valvoline, the factory fill on your truck, still offers the CI-4+ oil. It's called Valvoline Premium Blue Classic. You'll have to find a Valvoline retailer - like a semi-truck repair shop - in order to find it though. While I'm not fond of the cult, Amsoil offers CI-4+ oils in the form of a Marine or off-road flavor.

 

[Regcabguy]

My 5K oil analysis is coming back virtually identical with the new oil as with the prior CI stuff.

 

[Tractorat]

Regcabguy
Are you using dino oil ? What brand ?

Thanks

 

[BIGNASTY]

My 5K oil analysis is coming back virtually identical with the new oil as with the prior CI stuff.

Quote

As long as most run the oil in our trucks, Would there REALLY be a difference??? not that we could see in the lifetime use of our trucks IMO, The only reason that I use the old Delo is cause I can still get it, and why not its FREE.