2014 Ram integrated brake controller compatible with Dexter disk brakes?

[JDean]

I recently purchased a 2014 Ram 3500 with the integrated brake controller. When connected to an Excel 5th wheel with Dexter axles and electric over hydraulic disk brakes, the IBC immediately asserts the brake to the trailer (you can hear the Dexter brake actuator hum). I've configured the IBC for electric over hydraulic and even set the gain to zero, but the trailer brakes remain on. I can vary the gain on the brake controller and assert the brake manually with the controller and hear the actuator engage the trailer brakes, but it never fully releases them. Dexter says their actuator is compatible with this brake controller. The trailer brakes worked fine with the old truck using a P3 brake controller, so I think the problem is with the Ram IBC. Does anyone have any experience with the 2013-14 Ram IBC towing trailers with electric over hydraulic brakes? Thanks.
- John

 

[JLandry]

John,

I don't have experience with electric over hydraulic brakes since my travel trailer has Dexter axles with electric brakes, but I've noticed the Ram ITBM continuously sends very brief spikes of electricity through the trailer's brake system even when the brakes aren't being applied. I discovered this one day while checking the trailer tires with the truck connected and running. I could hear rapid clicking of the trailer's brake magnets. My theory is the ITBM uses these pulses to verify the trailer's still connected and the brake system is functional.

What year is your trailer? I ask because the 2014 Ram Owner's Manual mentions the ITBM is tested to be compatible with "new" electric over hydraulic systems...

Integrated Trailer Brake Module — If Equipped

Your vehicle may have an Integrated Trailer Brake Mod- ule (ITBM) for Electric and Electric Over Hydraulic (EOH) trailer brakes.

NOTE: This module has been designed and verified with electric trailer brakes and new electric over hydraulic systems. Some previous EOH systems may not be compatible with ITBM.​

John L.

 

[SnoKing]

John L, how many pages to you have to go to complete your reading of the RAM bible? Chris

#ad


It was pretty wet and windy at Tokeland over the weekend. It rained so hard we all went to Aberdeen and watched Noah, speaking of alternative bibles!

Clam digging was really good however. BTW you have the wrong Seaview in your location!!!!!

Chris

 

[JLandry]

John L, how many pages to you have to go to complete your reading of the RAM bible?

Why does it feel like you're making fun of me?

John L.

 

[SnoKing]

Hey John if more people read the manual we would not have as many questions to answer here!!!! Chris

 

[JDean]

My favorite part of the towing section in the Owner's Manual was on page 608 when it stated in a note that after market controllers might be available for trailers that were incompatible with the ITBM then warns you not to try to install them in the very next paragraph (without checking with a dealer). My 5th wheel is a 2010' but Ram didn't attempt to define "new" so I checked with Dexter to see if they had been getting any calls from Ram owners. They said not so much, which was encouraging and makes sense since they're an industry standard. The truck is brand new so I did take it back to the dealer, but all they check for are codes and everything was fine. But I had the tech standing there in front of me, so I asked about replacing the ITBM with a P3 (there's an adapter cable for the 2013-14 Ram), but he was less than enthusiastic about it. No advice, so i took that to mean he had never done it. Before I left, the shop (not the tech) did offer up a wiring diagram of a 7 way trailer plug that was wildly different than the way the truck is wired, which is the standard way. The only pin that matched was the center pin was still the back-up lights. I ignored it.
But thanks for the reply John L. The periodic spike is not what I'm seeing, but it's good to know if I ever get the thing to work. I think I'll spend today testing the Dexter brake actuator. Or maybe I have a ground problem between the truck and the trailer. If nothing pops up, then I'll have to take my chances with the P3, which is what I used for the last four years with my 2007 Dodge 3500 5.9L. Gone but not forgotten indeed.
John D

 

[SnoKing]

I think some people hang a electric brake magnet in the trailer parallel to the brake pump and set the controller to electric brakes. Chris

 

[JLandry]

John D,

You've probably already found some good troubleshooting tips online, but the ones listed under the "questions and answers" tab for THESE ACTUATORS look helpful.

I saw one question which sounds similar to your situation... i.e.: the actuator going to full pressure and staying there with power applied.

Please keep us posted on what you find so we can all learn from this.

John L.

 

[SnoKing]

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f116/ram-2013-14-integrated-brake-controller-198147.html

 

[CBari]

I know this my sound over simplified, but if you use a volt meter and are seeing a constant 12 volts at the trailer on the brake circuit, I would be checking the trailer plug and verify the wiring is the same as the trucks plug and that no loose wires are screws are causing any shorts. I have pulled trailers with the Dexter electric over hydraulic disc brakes behind my 2013 and the factory controller with no problem. Also check the ground on the trailer and the ground on the brake circuit.

 

[JDean]

So there are three wires from the truck to brake actuator on the trailer: battery + (12V), battery - (neutral or chassis ground), and the brake feed from the ITBM (0-12V). The other wires go to various trailer lights.
I cut the brake feed to the actuator and put a digital volt meter on the truck side of the cut wire and measured the voltage to trailer ground/neutral. With the 7-way cable not connected it read zero, as expected. With the truck connected to the trailer but not on, it read 0.25V. Close enough to zero. But with the truck key in the "Run" position, the DVM read 1.25V. The trailer brake actuator was quiet with the brake feed cut, but came on as soon as I restored the connection to the actuator. With the brake feed cut, the truck EVIC indicated that no trailer was connected. Asserting the brake manually with the ITBM had no affect on the brake feed voltage as long as the brake feed was cut to the actuator. I tried grounding the 7-way neutral pin on the truck directly to chassis ground (using a rear hitch bolt) but the voltage on the brake feed remained at about 1.2V.
Apparently 1.2V is enough for the brake actuator to engage the disk brake. Dexter claims you should see "minimal braking" at 3V, but any braking is too much.
The P3 brake controller shows a cable for the 2014 Ram, so I'm hoping that means it with get along with the EVIC. Nobody had it yet, but one should*be in tomorrow. Installation should be just unplugging the ITBM and plugging in the P3. If it looks like it will work, I'll just paste it next to my right knee under the steering wheel.
John D

 

[SnoKing]

So there are three wires from the truck to brake actuator on the trailer: battery + (12V), battery - (neutral or chassis ground), and the brake feed from the ITBM (0-12V). The other wires go to various trailer lights.
I cut the brake feed to the actuator and put a digital volt meter on the truck side of the cut wire and measured the voltage to trailer ground/neutral. With the 7-way cable not connected it read zero, as expected. With the truck connected to the trailer but not on, it read 0.25V. Close enough to zero. But with the truck key in the "Run" position, the DVM read 1.25V. The trailer brake actuator was quiet with the brake feed cut, but came on as soon as I restored the connection to the actuator. With the brake feed cut, the truck EVIC indicated that no trailer was connected. Asserting the brake manually with the ITBM had no affect on the brake feed voltage as long as the brake feed was cut to the actuator. I tried grounding the 7-way neutral pin on the truck directly to chassis ground (using a rear hitch bolt) but the voltage on the brake feed remained at about 1.2V.
Apparently 1.2V is enough for the brake actuator to engage the disk brake. Dexter claims you should see "minimal braking" at 3V, but any braking is too much.
The P3 brake controller shows a cable for the 2014 Ram, so I'm hoping that means it with get along with the EVIC. Nobody had it yet, but one should*be in tomorrow. Installation should be just unplugging the ITBM and plugging in the P3. If it looks like it will work, I'll just paste it next to my right knee under the steering wheel.
John D

That is really going backwards to set down to a P3 Prodigy controller from the IBC. If others have them working, I would continue to work on the issue. Chris

 

[JDean]

That is really going backwards to set down to a P3 Prodigy controller from the IBC. If others have them working, I would continue to work on the issue. Chris

I hear you, but I need to tow this trailer out of the park we're in this weekend. I feel like I'm at a dead end with the Dodge dealer if they won't look at anything that doesn't throw a code. I'm still hopefull I'll get this resolved with the ITBM, but in the meantime I'm kind of stuck. I guess it wouldn't hurt to have a spare brake controller if I could eventually get the ITBM and the P3 to both work. I would like to get some fishing in while we're still in Texas. If you stay in a Texas state park, you don't even need a fishing license.
John D

 

[CBari]

Another dumb question to ask but you have went into the brake set-up menu on the truck and picked the electric over hydraulic either light or heavy option.

 

[JDean]

Another dumb question to ask but you have went into the brake set-up menu on the truck and picked the electric over hydraulic either light or heavy option.

Originally set it up for heavy electric over hydraulic, but I also tried light EOH just to see if anything changed. The trailer brake feed from the truck always had enough voltage to cause the trailer's brake actuator to turn on (and lightly assert the trailer brakes), with no brake input, regardless of how I set the ITBM up.

 

[JDean]

John D,

You've probably already found some good troubleshooting tips online, but the ones listed under the "questions and answers" tab for THESE ACTUATORS look helpful.

I saw one question which sounds similar to your situation... i.e.: the actuator going to full pressure and staying there with power applied.

Please keep us posted on what you find so we can all learn from this.

John L.

Thanks. I've used etrailer for a resource before but never noticed the questions and answers tab. Lots of good stuff.
I wasn't very clear in the original post, but the problem isn't that the trailer brakes are locking up, but that they're never completely released. The trailer feels like it tows normally, but the trailer brakes are actually dragging. Do that for a hundred miles and the brakes and wheels get pretty hot.
John D

 

[JDean]

Snoking go me thinking: maybe I gave up too soon on the ITBM. Nothing like a second opinion, and there are plenty of Dodge dealers in Texas. This time I had hard evidence (or so i believed) that something was whacked about the truck's 7-way plug to the trailer: the brake feed, which should vary from 0 to 12V, was actually never falling below one volt (and thus, at least in my case, never fully releasing the trailer brakes). As soon as the truck key was turned to "Run" and the ITBM was turned on, even without a trailer attached, the brake line had about 1.2V on it when it clearly should have zero volts, or very close to it.
When I get the truck in front of the techs, I get the same answer as before: everything is fine. Their test showed the ITBM was putting out zero volts without a trailer attached, as it should. So I have them bug out the 7-way plug and the brake line has more than a volt. Everyone (two techs, the service manager and myself) agree that seemed suspicious enough to keep looking. Eventually I see the two techs head out out to check some other trucks in their inventory. The service manager then gives me the news: they looked at two other 2014 trucks and they both bugged out as mine did. That's just the way Ram was building them. Not sure why, but there you go.
So back to plan B. I had the Prodigy P3 professionally installed by a local dealer the same day. The truck didn't complain about the new controller or the missing ITBM. Connected the truck to the 5th wheel and everything was copestetic. The trailer's brake actuator was silent as it should be with no braking. I bugged out the 7-way plug on the bumper and the brake line was zero volts referenced to neutral.
We'll leave in the morning for Arkansas. I'll calibrate the P3 on way out of the park, or get it close enough. I'm not expecting any surprises since I've used this brake controller before.
Not sure what to think about the ITBM in the new trucks. I find it hard to believe I'm the only one having this particular problem with it. For now though, I'm happy with the P3 and I can get back to enjoying the new truck.
Thanks for all the replies.
- John

 

[JLandry]

Wow!

This is fascinating and troubling.

John L.

 

[HGreen]

Got my Weaver Distributing catalogue today (they are located in Fredericksburg, PA 1-800-932-8373) they have a whole page devoted to Titan Electric/Hydraulic brake actuator and under both models they list In-line Factory Brake Control Adapters for 2011 to current Dodge trucks (also list Ford and Chevy trucks). So there may be some issues with electric/hydraulic brakes, you may give them a call and see what they say about the problem.

 

[SnoKing]

Wow!

This is fascinating and troubling.

John L.

John and others, measure the voltage at your trailer plug. If you see similar voltage this is a real safety issue, as everyone's brakes will be dragging a bit. This question is what happens if there is the load of 4 magnets in drum brake installations. Is the impedance of the output circuit high enough that here is not current flow with drum brake magnets in the circuit? Which means you need to measure voltage with and without the trailer plugged in, which means you need to get into the wiring somewhere like the trailers junction box for the brake/lights cord. It might be time for everyone to file a safety complaint on www.safecar.com !

If the Electric/Hydraulic brake actuator has a high impedance input circuit and only looks at voltage and does not rely on current flow like magnetic brakes, then I understand what the OP is seeing, and RAM has a problem or some sort of Brake Adapter is require in the circuit as HGreen refers to.

And John it might be time to get the MaxBrake out of your storage box and re-install it on the new RAM.

Chris