Dealer Rant

[LarryM]

13 months ago at 26,000 miles, I got a check engine light from the code P2196 O2 sensor 01 stuck rich. I called the dealer from whom I purchased the truck and the service manager said to bring it down and he would fit it in. When I got there, he was gone and the service advisor said that the diesel tech was booked up for the next three weeks and they couldn't do anything for me. He also said that I shouldn't drive the truck with that code but I could leave it at the dealership until the tech was free. When I told him that I had just driven 30 miles one way because the manager said to bring it down. He then told me "He shouldn't have told you that, he knows how busy the tech is, that's the breaks". I called another dealer in the adjacent town, and they said bring it over, we can get it today. When I got there, they took it in and two hours later they did the wire harness overlay, the connector work and a reprogram and I was on my way. Since then, I have never darkened the doorstep of the original dealer, and actually sent 6 sailors from the base where I work to the new dealer of which, 4 bought trucks and one bought a Challenger. Now, I got the P2196 code plus a P2BAC code. I called the new dealer who treated me really well and he told me that his tech has had a medical issue with his wife but if I wanted, he would give me an appointment for next week, which was today at 0830. When I got there, the advisor said that the tech's wife had passed away last Sunday and he is the only diesel tech. I told him how sorry I was to hear that about the tech, but after taking care of their employee, they should have called the customers that had appointments and cancelled them rather than have the customers come to the dealership for their appointments only to be turned away. This drive was 66 miles. While there, a fellow from Montana came into the dealership with a 2014 3500 that was missing badly. He left his 5'er and family at the campground and came in to the dealership and was told that they couldn't help him. We both left and in the parking lot called all of the Ram dealerships within 105 miles, and EVERY ONE OF THEM said that their techs were booked, some at least out two weeks and others out 5 weeks. We asked what the issues were and they said that there has been a run of diesel problems. So, here we were, one fellow from another state on vacation with his family and me, both with no help or any prospects. Can our trucks with the good ol' Cummins be this bad that the dealers will tell an out of town guy that he's on his own with a badly running $60,000 truck or a local guy with a check engine light? Now, don't get me wrong, I don't want head of the line privileges or anything, I would have waited for another appointment after the tech comes back, I truly understand but I should have been called about the tech's tragedy and certainly the poor guy from Montana who will most likely find an after market shop to fix his truck and probably trade it for a Ford, (God forbid). Sorry for the long post, but am I off base on this or are we in big trouble with this?

 

[DonFitzwater]

You will find that in most customer service industries, there is a serious lack of knowledgeable techs......especially as technology out paces the brain pressure level. I say keep driving the truck.....the norm for service advisors is that they usually don't know squat. I don't really have anything to offer except stick with it and get it fixed sooner than later.

As far as the other guy trading in for a new 6.7 Ford.......I made that mistake and it cost me 60k to realize it. But that's ok, Ford needs to sell unsuspecting buyers garbage to keep the bills paid.

 

[Brocky]

This brings up a big question to me.. If the Dodge/Ram techs are this busy and it seems an engine problem Can a CUMMINS shop work on it???? Most big citys have a Cummins shop and/or a shop authorized to do warrantee work on big trucks.. Can/will they work on a Ram for you???

 

[Newsa]

I experienced that down here in Miami Fl. There is a huge need for diesel techs. And they have to be careful with all the high pressures. Things can explode. At least that's why they said not just anyone can work on a diesel.

 

[Bob4x4]

As a diesel tech I can tell you I am usually the busiest on the shop most the time. I don't think its because the diesels are bad but ore because the ram sales have jumped up so high so fast. Most shops only have one specialist. In 07 with lackluster sales one was more than enough

 

[mwilson]

The ongoing training required alone weeds out quite a few diesel techs. Between Freightliner/Western Star, Cummins, Detroit Diesel, Fuso, and Thermoking at our three locations with shops we have one, sometimes two or three away at school for a week at a time almost constantly. Not close by either, usually in Southern Jersey. In the case of Thermoking some training is in Minneapolis. That does not include the time spent on self paced training at a computer terminal at work.

A tech needs to be both a true mechanic AND a computer whiz. An increasingly rare combination of talents.

 

[mwilson]

This brings up a big question to me.. If the Dodge/Ram techs are this busy and it seems an engine problem Can a CUMMINS shop work on it???? Most big citys have a Cummins shop and/or a shop authorized to do warrantee work on big trucks.. Can/will they work on a Ram for you???

They cannot do Ram warranty. Can't communicate with the engine for the most part either. Hard parts such as water pumps and such are no problem.

 

[Brocky]

Mr Wilson

From your above post I take it you are associated with a Freightliner dealership.. I am surprised that a Cummins shop cannot communicate with the 6.7 in a Ram as I know this engine is used in many midsized trucks.

 

[LarryM]

I know that the diesel techs are busy, maybe the busiest in the shop as Bob4X4 stated. While trying to help Jon from Montana, we spoke of all of the vacationers and tourists here in Florida this time of year, most driving diesel rigs. Maybe that accounts for some of the increase in service at the dealerships. The problem I have is what do they have in place to help these people when they are traveling far from home and have a problem? I know that lots of you guys travel and some really rack up the miles. What would you expect from a dealer if you needed help? Would you expect to be turned away with no consideration at all? I served in the military retiring 3 months shy of 40 years. My family and I have crisscrossed this country from duty station to duty station numerous times in Chevys and Dodges pulling a car hauler. BUT, when something happened, and it sometimes did, I was able to either fix it or we could easily get someone to do it. Not so now. Someone on this forum posted that these trucks are computers with wheels, and that is absolutely true. We have to depend on the dealer to carry the day. It seems that there is very little that the dealer is willing to do to help, even if it is to offer a service alternative if he is so busy. Additionally, why are the dealers so busy with diesel issues, are the trucks a lot less reliable than they used to be? The ones that we spoke to were doing major stuff, not oil changes , etc. Just makes me wonder that's all.

 

[mwilson]

Brocky,

The software and possibly the ECM itself are different. The engine electronics have to work with the Ram transmission and other Ram specific parameters.

The 6.7L Cummins offered in the medium trucks has different software. Simpler in a way because it would be in front of an Allison for an automatic truck in spite of the chassis brand. Did that make sense??

 

[Bob4x4]

I know that the diesel techs are busy, maybe the busiest in the shop as Bob4X4 stated. While trying to help Jon from Montana, we spoke of all of the vacationers and tourists here in Florida this time of year, most driving diesel rigs. Maybe that accounts for some of the increase in service at the dealerships. The problem I have is what do they have in place to help these people when they are traveling far from home and have a problem? I know that lots of you guys travel and some really rack up the miles. What would you expect from a dealer if you needed help? Would you expect to be turned away with no consideration at all? I served in the military retiring 3 months shy of 40 years. My family and I have crisscrossed this country from duty station to duty station numerous times in Chevys and Dodges pulling a car hauler. BUT, when something happened, and it sometimes did, I was able to either fix it or we could easily get someone to do it. Not so now. Someone on this forum posted that these trucks are computers with wheels, and that is absolutely true. We have to depend on the dealer to carry the day. It seems that there is very little that the dealer is willing to do to help, even if it is to offer a service alternative if he is so busy. Additionally, why are the dealers so busy with diesel issues, are the trucks a lot less reliable than they used to be? The ones that we spoke to were doing major stuff, not oil changes , etc. Just makes me wonder that's all.

We do what we can to help out of towners,never turned any away.The majority of 6.7 headgaskets have been vacationers running programmers,with the newer trucks it's mostly check engine lights that require a simple update.

 

[Bob4x4]

Mr Wilson

From your above post I take it you are associated with a Freightliner dealership.. I am surprised that a Cummins shop cannot communicate with the 6.7 in a Ram as I know this engine is used in many midsized trucks.

The software and diagnostic tools are licensed and very expensive,The Cummins dealer in El Cajon tried opening a branch for RVs and pick-ups,they sponsored a great Grand opening show.I brought quite a few friends and some awesome rigs.The timing was bad itwas right before the economy crashed so it didn't last too long.

 

[jus2shy]

Brocky,
The ECU used by Chrysler is different than what's used in typical commercial applications. Many of the commercial ECU's communicate using the SAE J1939 communication standard since you never know what transmission an engine will be paired with. While the Chrysler ECU uses Chrysler's proprietary communication bus.

 

[Bob4x4]

Brocky,
The ECU used by Chrysler is different than what's used in typical commercial applications. Many of the commercial ECU's communicate using the SAE J1939 communication standard since you never know what transmission an engine will be paired with. While the Chrysler ECU uses Chrysler's proprietary communication bus.

You don't even want to know how many different bus types we have used................

 

[TCDiesel]

WItech is about $3,200.00-$6,000.00 and the 1 year account $2K any shop can have this technology ,that includes any Cummins branch facility. Thiers a lot of legality reason branch locations do NOT work on Ram trucks.

I was lucky last year a local Dealer closed up and offer Me all there equipment.. I sold some of it, but I did keep 2 Toughbook's with WItech.

 

[jus2shy]

You don't even want to know how many different bus types we have used................

I have a general idea, I've had to help spec HD vehicles (Good ol Cummins ISL and Voith transmissions). I just know that J1939 has a lot of powertrain communication purposes along with other things like message signs and all those other wonderful PIDs and MIDs. Then there's the J1708 standard that we have to site for our equipment as well. We tap into it frequently for signs and such. But I know it all explodes from that point with the proprietary stuff some manufacturers have (Volvo is pretty infamous). I can only feel for your electrical engineers that have to get all these things talking to each other.

 

[Brocky]

Gentlemen

Thank you for your answers..I am/was NOT computer savvy enough to realize the many differences.. So I guess the first question you ask any service manager, for any brand, is: Can your computer talk to my truck???

Is some of this designed to keep service "In House"???? Will some of it eventually become standard?? Remember when every cell phone had it's own charger plug? and now they are interchangeable..

 

[Bob4x4]

Very few(independent) shops will buy the technology or techs to get the job done

 

[Brocky]

A neighboring independent shop has a Snap ON multivehicle computer unit.. Are these programmed (updated) to vehicles 3 to 5 years old only???

 

[sag2]

It depends on what they purchased. You can spend a little to get the basics, or a lot to get much more data. The tool is the same, just buying the data. The newer Snap-On tool can even see all the other modules, and has access to diagnostic data as well.