2003 Dodge 5.9 diesel NV5600 knock/tap/clatter, Ideas?

[Tuesdak]

Month ago I gave it a good run through Payson to the 4 corners towing this - wound it out hard on the grades. Then pulled another INOP car back from Payson shortly after that.

 

[sag2]

How many miles on it and was it using oil? Did you notice blow by before you pulled the head? If you want a great shop to test the injectors, contact Pro-Formance Injectors in Clearfield PA. We have used them for years.

 

[Tuesdak]

Never gave it's oil use a second thought: about 1 quart every 1-2K miles. Just minor blowby - nothing major. I don't really see any with the oil cap off. 118K on it. The head was off by the PO for unknown reasons. Turbo appears innocent as the intake is dry.

 

[seafish]

Never gave it's oil use a second thought: about 1 quart every 1-2K miles. Just minor blowby - nothing major. I don't really see any with the oil cap off. 118K on it. The head was off by the PO for unknown reasons. Turbo appears innocent as the intake is dry.

One quart every 1500 miles seems high compared to my 2005 trucks oil use, which is zero quarts every 4k miles, which is also when I change it. Also has 108k some towing heavy.

 

[Tuesdak]

Is that a typo?? 1 quart every 1500 miles seems high compared to my 2005 trucks oil use, which is zero quarts every 4k miles, which is when I change it. Also has 108k some towing heavy.

No typo. Not used to "0" oil consumption so never gave it a second thought. It literally drank the Royal Purple I tried (was on sale) and flashed high copper on the UOA. I switched to Mystic 15w-50 synthetic blend and it still uses oil, just not as fast.

I assume the pistons would show oil washing if the oil control rings were the cause? But My Assumptions for this engine appear to be a little off...

 

[Mathes308]

Well we can see where all the oil was going, now to find out how it got there.
Is the oil consumption related to the noise? Maybe. But that oil use seems to be top priority now.
Hard to see from the pics, looks like it's not affecting all the cylinders the same, right?
Maybe the valves, valve seals, injector seals.... Somewhere in the head I would say lies the problem.
Was the carbon buildup enough to leave taddlers on the head?

 

[Mathes308]

Not to get side tracked but..
Change oil every 4000 miles!
Why?!?
You sled pulling all those miles?

 

[Tuesdak]

Well we can see where all the oil was going, now to find out how it got there.
Is the oil consumption related to the noise? Maybe. But that oil use seems to be top priority now.
Hard to see from the pics, looks like it's not affecting all the cylinders the same, right?
Maybe the valves, valve seals, injector seals.... Somewhere in the head I would say lies the problem.
Was the carbon buildup enough to leave taddlers on the head?

That is correct, the front appears to have less build up. Shop didn't mention if carbon was hitting the head.

 

[AH64ID]

I would guess you have a ring issue, which could explain the noise and consumption.

My dads motor was using oil at a slightly lower rate with 2 broken rings.

I don't use any oil in 10K miles.

 

[Mathes308]

Well with it torn down this far it's only an oil pan away from pulling the Pistons out, worth every penny for a ring inspection.

 

[sag2]

It is hard to tell from the photos, but the cross hatch looks like it is gone. If it is, have you been running an aftermarket air filter? On a Cummins with 200k or even 300k and clean air it's entire life you will still be able to see the hone marks.

 

[Tuesdak]

I am told the cross hatch is still there.

I'll ask them about pulling the pistons. If it's that easy from this point might as well! (Thanks for pointing that out.)

I don't understand why it would break rings? Of course I don't know why they pulled the head off so anything is possible.

Waiting on word back from a machine shop as to valve guide condition.

 

[AH64ID]

I didn't expect rings to beak either, but my dads 06 had broken rings on 1/6 at 123K miles. He never got it hot or abused it.

 

[Tuesdak]

I didn't expect rings to beak either, but my dads 06 had broken rings on 1/6 at 123K miles. He never got it hot or abused it.

Any marks or other signs of the broken rings?

Shop noted oil on the bottom of the intake valves so they are part of the problem.

Stopped in and got some pics of #5 and #6. Crosshatch is there and cylinders look near new.

 

[seafish]

Not to get side tracked but..
Change oil every 4000 miles!
Why?!?
You sled pulling all those miles?

SIMPLE reason, when I bought the truck used in 2007, the PO had bought a lifetime oil change agreement from the Lithia dealership and they offer to do it every 3k miles, or 4 times a year, ….I live 2 hours away from them, so usually I go over the 3k interval before I get time to go down there. I keep track of what oil they use and whether or not they overfill it (only happened once), and then I'm good to go. I also get my tires rotes from Les Schwab (also double checking their work before I go) and now I get my tires rotated on the same trip down to the city!!!

 

[Mathes308]

Good reason.

Back to the oil burner, what kind of oil were you running?
Curious as to why the guides may have been starved, plugged galley or high heat, maybe too many shutdowns before the valves could cool.
Highly anticipating the shops findings, I'm sure you are too.

 

[Tuesdak]

Good reason.

Back to the oil burner, what kind of oil were you running?
Curious as to why the guides may have been starved, plugged galley or high heat, maybe too many shutdowns before the valves could cool.
Highly anticipating the shops findings, I'm sure you are too.

UOA all came back good including the PO's oil I changed after getting it. (Only the RP spiked copper.) As mentioned Royal purple for 1 change and then Mystic. Only owned the truck for 18K. Rest of the 101K was PO towing a 5er with minimum questionable maintenance and repairs. Still had shot factory shocks on it at 101K. They did change the trans and diff oil at 50K. The MT trans oil was sheared down badly when I changed it at 101K.

Head is a wildcard. We think it was a used head and appears to be iffy at that. The past R&R job on the head was certainly a poor one. Had the tic noise since I got it and not knowing these engines I didn't know any better.

 

[Tuesdak]

The head is total and complete garbage.

Valve guides better than 0.020 loose.
Soot and oil on backside of most valves.
Springs bad.
Moisture pitting on the back sides of the valves.
And severe debris impact on the #1.

 

[Mathes308]

Ooohh weee, we've got a bingo....

Aaahh, inglorious *******s was awesome.

But yea, that thing looks like crap.
Provided you find a head, how's the block checking out?

 

[Tuesdak]

No news is good news on the block I guess.

Shop found a head out of a junkyard. Engine it came off of only had 5 good rods and plenty of ventilation from the 6th rod...
So over to the machine shop for seals and a complete check out and repair. Hopefully it's usable.