Got notice already? I didn't think there was a fix yet.
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Massive emission trouble for VW.
- Thread starter Wayne M.
- Start Date
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Got notice already? I didn't think there was a fix yet.
I have no doubt that you are right, though I am wondering since out TDi is registered in a non smog requiring county whether that will still hold true or what the enforcement mechanism will be. HOPEFULLY, they don;t just eliminate the "non smog certificate requiring" districts though that is probably EXACT:Y what they will do !!!
Wayne, actually from what I read, the ECM contains the fix already.. the dyno mode of operation.. in there lies the challenge for VW. Those that devised the other program almost certainly did so knowing the other emission components could not last the 120K as required by EPA certification, and they are expensive.. so they could remove the "on road" and run the currently compliant mode and be able to meet the current emissions, but then have to replace the LNTs and maybe DPFs before 120K to meet full compliance, and that is going to cost much, much more than the $636 VW has announce they have set aside.. reading the tea leaves.. you'll see my signature note the new Chevy Cruze TDI, and former VW Jetta as of last eve!
Given the hysteria and media hype on this, I'd fully expect it won't stop at CA, though CA is a given. I'd expect the Feds to tell the states, account for a 100% compliance by VIN, and force VW to show them same, and hold registration until this is done.. Not good, especially for those who have modified their cars. It has not happened yet, but with this EPA/Admin, I'd be surprised if that does NOT happen. This is why the trade to the Cruze TDI and off load of the VW, as of last night.
Tuesdak
TDR MEMBER
Good point. Gas engines: Warm up run rich time so the engine doesn't stall is one high emission time. So is 'hold the hammer to the floor' climbing a grade and the ECM dumps fuel ,rich, to put out the fire in the cats. That is beyond the 12:1 rich mixture for power setting. Otherwise the cats would completely melt down because they are so close the the engine to reduce overall emissions. This is why grades smell like burning hair. (My track times were better if I risked the cats by turning this overrich cat protection off when off road racing.)
It's all compromises, but, it's out of control for Diesel emissions. Cost, reliability, increased fuel use, and increased fuel cost for ULSD. We are the easy target with the green morons all upset that you can't deliver things with an electric golf cart powered by some green energy or zero emissions nuke plant. You would be amazed at what 24 hour power plants and other things get away with. If CA wants better air they simply need to dynamite the Tehachapi's to fix the bowl that traps all the used up air.
The EPA certified the cars in the past. Thus the on-road test is truly an after the fact test requirement. I don't blame VW for playing the same dirty pool the EPA does. Strange the timing of this when VW just opened an engine production facility in Russia.
The EPA certified the cars in the past. Thus the on-road test is truly an after the fact test requirement. I don't blame VW for playing the same dirty pool the EPA does. Strange the timing of this when VW just opened an engine production facility in Russia.
I'm one to know the gov't is capable of all kinds of nefarious things.. but I have to say the Russia plant has nothing to do with the timing on this. The 2014 study that discovered the issue, predates the announcement of the Russia VW plant.. Oh, and GM had a plant in Russia that has now been closed, and Ford still has one to my knowledge as well.
The study, I linked it earlier, and even the EPA specifications allow for times of out of specification emissions as you put it, and that is for protection of engine, or components (like the CAT). The problem is on the on road test the VWs were not at any point of operation within specifications, but passed on the dyno, consistently. They also tested a BMW, it passed, and they had one mode where it was off a bit, but that the EPA acknowledges, and accepts within the specification.
I'm no EPA fan, and I find the levels to be ridiculously low, and the way to get there burning more fuel, and causing more CO2 which EPA thinks is going to kill the planet.. is hypocritical for sure.. but the Russia plant had nothing to do with this one.
Worse, my experience and investigation on the HPFP on the VWs made me acutely aware of the general VW attitude that the customer is an idiot. Having metal in my filter was OK, and they'd be happy to wait until a catastrophic failure to do anything, and then charge me $120 for being proactive in trying to avoid what would be a massively more expensive fix for them if not done preventively.. It is sad, otherwise I did like the car.. but it is gone.. and now I have the Cruze TDI, and it seems to be better, and it does not have the overly sensitive HPFP and actually passes the emissions test without cheating, as far as anyone knows at least.. then again, Government Motors..... maybe they get a pass... :-laf
Tuesdak
TDR MEMBER
The VW plant just opened this month. 2014 was last year, why no uproar then like there is now?
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...gine-plants-in-russia-amid-car-market-decline
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...gine-plants-in-russia-amid-car-market-decline
Yes, they do pass on a dyno test, because the programming monitors steering angle, and wheel speeds.. no change in steering angle, and no rotation of back, non-driven wheels.. ECM goes into complaint mode, and passes.. go for a drive, and it switches to the road mode, that has never passed.. but the certification was done via a static test in a lab..
Yes, no way this happens by accident.
Well, let me show the timeline on the VW debacle.. 2014 they noted the issue by the group from WVU that tested 3 cars, 2 VWs (one LNT, other SCR) and a BMW X5 TDi (SCR).. they all passed lab tests at the CARB facility. Taken to all kinds of road testing, city, highway, etc.. the VWs did not pass any drive cycle, the BMW passed all except one, which was rural uphill, something like that, but is was not too far off... all the other patterns were below the EPA limit.. this was all NOx.. all others, like PM, all cars passed on road and lab.. NOx is the specific issue.
The 2013 SCR was Passat, it was only about half as bad as the LNT (2012 Jetta).
The findings were reported to EPA in 2014, let's say late for BOD.. then EPA, CARB continue testing and find consistent results, and ask VW what is going on, VW tells them their cars must have mechanical issues, they deny. EPA/CARB test a brand new car off the lot.. same results, pass lab, fail road.. VW says they found a problem, issue a recall for ECM program, 2306 was the number.. the do the ECM flash, EPA/CARB test a car post recall.. still fails.
Then EPA says, NO 2016 TDI certifications until VW can explain and fix the issue.. then and only then VW admits to the violation and the dual program.
All this is documented.. Now, I'm no fan of tyrants in our own gov't or any tyrant, and I'm no fan of EPA, but to be fair, they gave VW the time to fix this without a fine, and without the mess they are in now, frankly all VW had to do was program the 2306 flash to make it compliant, then offer extended emission warrantees to 120K on all cars they were worried would have later emissions issues due to the full time compliant programming.
VW did this to themselves.. frankly it is sad, some of the features in their cars are really good. They also have had issues with the HPFP, and having realized this and had to deal with a pattern from them of denial, the timeline of this scandal confirms this as a culture issue at VW.. they do need to clean house, I hope they will, and after the damage come back, but it is going to take a very long time.
Also, the plant in your story is the engine plant, they have an assembly plant that was already assembling cars.. in you story:
"The factory near Kaluga, an industrial city southwest of Moscow where Volkswagen already produces vehicles, will have capacity to make 150,000 engines a year for Russian-made VW-brand and Skoda cars"
Picked up the journal today. There's a fantastic op piece. I encourage all to check it out!
http://www.wsj.com/articles/politicians-hope-scandal-stops-at-vw-1443218767
http://www.wsj.com/articles/politicians-hope-scandal-stops-at-vw-1443218767
Hahahahahahahaahaaha
No,I had to get an emissions reflash before I could renew mine a couple of years ago.
VW owners will get the same notice once a fix is in. My friend just bought a Sportwagen a few months ago.
I hope the EPA Animas River incident was a horrible mistake. VW's was deliberate.
Well I kinda have to wonder whether the EPA Animas dam breach, disastrous as it was, was actually an accident or perhaps deliberate…I mean , it certainly saved the mine owner millions of dollars on implementing a solution to disposing of the millions of gallons of waste generated by their mining operation and it also resulted in an at least temporary moratorium on ANY further EPA testing of earthen mine dams. Go ahead and call me a cynic, but that's gotta be worth something to somebody... alls you got to do is follow the money.
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
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Subscribe
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