Anyone With Biodiesel Problems?

[MJWenrich]

Curious if anyone has problems using biodiesel in our newer Generation 4 trucks. On a recent trip that was all I could find in Kommiefornia. Seemed to smell different too. And is mileage per gallon different?

 

[Newsa]

Curious if anyone has problems using biodiesel in our newer Generation 4 trucks. On a recent trip that was all I could find in Kommiefornia. Seemed to smell different too. And is mileage per gallon different?

Was it B20? Just curious.

http://www.trucktrend.com/cool-trucks/1407-2014-ram-2500-biodiesel-testing-final-gear-editorial/

I think b20 has advantages in the winter with not needing diesel #1 or other winter blends that may not have lubricity of the summer blends? Less likely to gell? Maybe a disadvantage would be slightly less mileage?

 

[Bob4x4]

Bio has a lower gel point than #2.Read your owners manual to find the max percentage for your model.

 

[bljohnson]

I'm in central Ca and all diesel is Bio here from B5 to B20. Most of the trucker stops are B20 and the same price or more than the smaller stations.

I notice less MPG and less get up and go when using B20.

Are there states that are not Bio mandated yet?

 

[jelag]

I'm having an issue with P20EE codes, and the dealer that's going to look at the truck in a couple of weeks believes that this problem is related to B15-B20 diesel... the problem of course is the most of Western OR only carries B15-B20 in most of the stations.. Were we are currently doing volunteer work would require a trip of at least 40 miles to a truck stop to find a station that doesn't have the B15-B20 diesel...

I personally told the dealer I thought they were wrong... But that's just my thoughts..

 

[EDankievitch]

I've been running B100 and B20 for the past 12 years now. No issues. Of all the Bio fuels BioDiesel hs by far the best choice for the Environment . Far better than that farce E85/ E15 Ethanol the EPA and the GOV has been shoving down our throats.

 

[Newsa]

In some states, B5 doesn't even need to be labeled as such. (If posts on another thread are correct)?

Some of us might be running B5 and not even know it. Especially those who regularly cross state lines.

I agree that B20 is an excellent alternative fuel. Especially for winter months.

 

[Bob4x4]

In some states, B5 doesn't even need to be labeled as such. (If posts on another thread are correct)?

Some of us might be running B5 and not even know it. Especially those who regularly cross state lines.

I agree that B20 is an excellent alternative fuel. Especially for winter months.

Why do you like b20 for the winter?

 

[MJWenrich]

Newsa...it was B20 I believe. In Tehachapi, Ca. Unless there is a B10.

 

[Newsa]

Why do you like b20 for the winter?

B20 has a lower (temperature) gel point than both B100 and #2 diesel. At least that's what I saw from an online source.

B20 has more lubricity than many of the winter blends.

I like it because I am less likely to need a diesel additive?

But I could be convinced otherwise if I am wrong on these accounts.

 

[EDankievitch]

The NationalBioDiesel Org has found that running B5 lowers the light off temp of the DPF meaning that passive ReGen's are more likely .

 

[Newsa]

The NationalBioDiesel Org has found that running B5 lowers the light off temp of the DPF meaning that passive ReGen's are more likely .

Good to know. But I thought I read that using biodiesel decreases not only fuel filter life, but also oil filter life and decreases oil change imterval.

Why? I don't know. Seems if it's doing fewer active regens, it would not decrease oil life or filter life?????

Edit: decreased fuel filter life makes sense. Not sure why it would decrease oil and oil filter life?

 

[EDankievitch]

Less regens means cleaner lube oil in my book. I'm happy with a 10k mile oil change cycle.

 

[JR]

B20 has a lower (temperature) gel point than both B100 and #2 diesel.

B100 yes, regular#2 no. The higher the content of biodiesel the higher the temp at which it begins to gel. Cold climates drop B20 in the winter time. I believe B100 gels up within a few degrees of freezing.
Also widely overlooked is the fact that biodiesel raises NOX emissions which is the primary target emission regarding diesel. Europe is just now figuring this out.
OEMs have conceded OCI and fuel filter life are both shortened compared to conventional#2 diesel. In the early days of B20 almost all OEMs required oil change intervals be cut in half when using B20. I do not know what has changed to alter their position on this but that tells you the stuff just isn't as good as Uncle Sam would like you to believe. Also the potential is much greater for contamination in bulk storage or in vehicles that do not use fuel on a regular basis. It is not recommended in stand by generators for this reason.
Lastly, all current HPCR engines are designed to run off of #2 diesel. No "extra" lube required.
I realize many do not have the option, but I can not understand why anyone would choose to run higher concentrations if a choice is available. I've seen first hand the mess the stuff creates in my cousin's farm tanks. Keep in mind he averages over 1000 gallons a month. By the time it was all said and done he was out thousands of dollars- shocking, cleaning, tank draining, multiple filter changes and repeated down time. No thank you.

 

[Tuesdak]

I posted my severe problems with biodiesel here: https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/248698-ULSD-and-Biodiesel-Exposed!


The take away is this: Reduced MPG, More water absorption to the point that B20 requires a separate water separator element (per Cummins documentation for fleets that are rated for B20 use), unlucky bugs in fuel episodes become a nightmare, Biodiesel doesn't evaporate back out of the engine oil like #2 diesel will, and the Methanol left over from the process screws up about every lift pump out there. DPF regens with in cylinder post injection are the worst for oil dilution that UOA labs can't report as "fuel dilution". This is why you have to change the biodiesel diluted oil more often.

The EPA doesn't care if your older vehicle wasn't rated for the "modern" fuel. Fuel is your problem, you didn't have a warranty on the fuel system anyway, the warranty is long gone, and WV got screwed over NOx emissions that Biodiesel raises anyway. It's ok for Biodiesel to reduce MPG and raise NOx. Yet it's not ok for WV to raise MPG while raising NOx with a standard the EPA couldn't fully test anyway... Confused yet?

Again the fuel system that had a separate CAT water separator on it survived (the tank didn't) wet bug fouled biodiesel while the other vehicle with the inadequate single does it all OEM filter had the injection system completely destroyed from the fuel tank to the injector tips. We all know that The USA is known for wet dirty diesel fuel otherwise frugal truck drivers wouldn't run the big 2 stage fuel filters...

 

[Newsa]

B100 yes, regular#2 no. The higher the content of biodiesel the higher the temp at which it begins to gel. Cold climates drop B20 in the winter time. I believe B100 gels up within a few degrees of freezing.
Also widely overlooked is the fact that biodiesel raises NOX emissions which is the primary target emission regarding diesel. Europe is just now figuring this out.
OEMs have conceded OCI and fuel filter life are both shortened compared to conventional#2 diesel. In the early days of B20 almost all OEMs required oil change intervals be cut in half when using B20. I do not know what has changed to alter their position on this but that tells you the stuff just isn't as good as Uncle Sam would like you to believe. Also the potential is much greater for contamination in bulk storage or in vehicles that do not use fuel on a regular basis. It is not recommended in stand by generators for this reason.
Lastly, all current HPCR engines are designed to run off of #2 diesel. No "extra" lube required.
I realize many do not have the option, but I can not understand why anyone would choose to run higher concentrations if a choice is available. I've seen first hand the mess the stuff creates in my cousin's farm tanks. Keep in mind he averages over 1000 gallons a month. By the time it was all said and done he was out thousands of dollars- shocking, cleaning, tank draining, multiple filter changes and repeated down time. No thank you.

This website says b20 gels at -15 °F.

http://www.bioblendfuels.com/biodiesel/
It has to do with the chemical property(properties) of mixtures that depresses freezing (in this case gelling) poimt. Biodiesel us the impurity That depresses gel.poimt. summer blends can start getting cloudy at 35° and be gelled at 20°F. I realize winter blends don't gel as easily, but those winter blends are a lot harsher on the pumps and injectors because of lack of lubricity.

I fully recognize the dangers of microbes that could lurk and thrive in biodiesel. No fuel is perfect. Just have to weigh the alternatives

 

[Learjet]

I have a new truck, only 9,000 miles, but this summer with our 5th I used several tanks of B20 with no noticed differences. The loose/added supplement page in my manual says: "if regular operation occurs with B6-B20 oil change interval is 6m or 8000 miles and fuel filter every second oil change"

 

[JR]

If you think biodiesel has a lower gel point than #2, ask yourself why you will not find biodiesel in cold climates.
Even Minnesota, which has a statewide mandate on biodiesel, uses B20 in the summer but reduces the content to B10 April through October.
Thankfully, we do not have any higher than B10 here year around with my local station using a Max of B5.

 

[Newsa]

I have a new truck, only 9,000 miles, but this summer with our 5th I used several tanks of B20 with no noticed differences. The loose/added supplement page in my manual says: "if regular operation occurs with B6-B20 oil change interval is 6m or 8000 miles and fuel filter every second oil change"

Thanks, my 2013 manual doesn't say anything about decreased oil change intervals. I was wondering if it was 8000 miles or 10,000 miles. My printed manual is just missing a lot of updates that have been added for these 4th gens.

The only way I would know there was a decreased oil change interval is from the knowledge and experience base on this forum.

 

[Newsa]

I posted my severe problems with biodiesel here: https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/248698-ULSD-and-Biodiesel-Exposed!

. DPF regens with in cylinder post injection are the worst for oil dilution that UOA labs can't report as "fuel dilution". This is why you have to change the biodiesel diluted oil more often.
..

Here it is. Why the decreased oil change interval is recommemded. Thanks for jogging my memory, JDoremire.