Excessive Oil Compsuption 5.9 24V Cummins

[GAmes]

Tremendo, is your crank case vent discharge in front of the radiator or has it been repositioned? That is where blowby is measured.

 

[Tremendo]

BoeingDiesel, I went ahead and checked the procedure you mentioned and no default was noted when I placed the A/C setting to floor. All positions checked Ok.

fast3rd, You mentioned something about the 710 cap, you referring to the oil filler cap? or is it a cap somewhere else in the valve cover that could get blocked causing over pressurize valve train...

GAmes, the crankcase vent tube on this truck is located right bellow-- front of the valve cover. More precisely, top, right of timing cover.

 

[GAmes]

I'm not familiar with the 24 valve stock location. I have just read on several occasions that the discharge in the stock location fouls the radiator and needs to be repositioned. At any rate, is there a high amount of air being pushed out when the engine is at 2000+ rpm? Any evidence of a large amount of oil being discharged from it?

 

[GCroyle]

Turbo is lubed and cooled by engine oil.

Doesn't sound like you've found a source, why not pull hose from turbo to intercooler and look for oil. Hose is gonna be clean or slimy with oil.

 

[NIsaacs]

I try to keep it below 20 pounds of boost for transmission longevity, but I'm not afraid to go to 30 if I have to.

I would think with all those heavy, wind resistant RV's you tow, it would require 20 psi just to run on level ground. Even at 57mph, then with a head wind.....If I did that, I wouldn't have a heating issue. I have no problem going down an extra gear on a long steep grade, but out on the open road I gotta go at or near the speed limit

 

[GAmes]

I would think with all those heavy, wind resistant RV's you tow, it would require 20 psi just to run on level ground.

Only when getting up to speed. Most trailers stay in the 10-12 range on level ground.

 

[Tremendo]

I don't know if you are trying to run your truck at the full line or not?? I find that If i try to run my 99 CTD at the full line it will usually use the first quart down to the half between full and add fairly rapidly (1000 miles or so) and is at that level for the next 3000 miles until I may have to add another quart back to the mid mark. It seems to push that top quart out the crank case vent if it to full! I have used Rotella T-6 for the last 14 years and 80K miles with no issues.
gtwitch in wyoming

Hi gtwitch, that same symptom you have is what I am experiencing. Except that I freak out when I see the oil level coming down too fast. I have been told by few members here that is a normal, and other that is not. So, I don't know what to make of it any more.

 

[Tremendo]

One other thing to check is blow-by. Mine was using a *lot* of oil. Until I removed the 710 cap and installed some PVC tubing. In my case, the oil reaching the top end couldn't get back to the crank case due to excessive pressure and found somewhere else to go. Once I relieved that pressure, oil consumption returned to 'normal'. Even today with 315k miles, if I generally keep the boost under 10PSI, it doesn't use much oil.

Hi fest3er, the 710 cap you referring to, where exactly is that cap located ? I might consider installing a Quart Breather made by Jaz Products, may be that would help. But again, I don't really have any obvious blowby (at least that I know of) I still have to perform the real manometer blowby technique to completely discard the possibilities of internal component failure.

 

[Tremendo]

I'm not familiar with the 24 valve stock location. I have just read on several occasions that the discharge in the stock location fouls the radiator and needs to be repositioned. At any rate, is there a high amount of air being pushed out when the engine is at 2000+ rpm? Any evidence of a large amount of oil being discharged from it?

Hello GAmes, I finally performed the 2000 rpm blowby test when I got back from work today, but could not duplicate the high volume of white haze coming from the breather tube. No oil discharge either, just slightly damped.

 

[fest3er]

Hi fest3er, the 710 cap you referring to, where exactly is that cap located ?

Old blonde joke. "OIL" upside down is "710".

 

[Rich Poirier]

I agree with Boeing Diesel. There are a few threads that will zero-in on this situation. They helped me with my 2001, same exact situation. Technically, the truck is almost 19 years old..

That's a long time for rubber hoses to live in extreme cycles. I had a blow by issue just like yours. You shouln't see anything coming from the oil fill in that kind of volume. It is an indicator that there is a vacuum/pressure imbalance in the engine. Chase down all your vacuum lines, especially under the weatherstripping at the engine cowl, and the elbow at the vacuum pump, like BoeingDiesel says. You'll be surprised how "out of sight, out of mind" applies here. Most of the lines on my truck were weathered beyond perforation. Obviously the cause of the blowby and oil consumption. And remedied all of it.
Also, there is a slew of vacuum lines that operate the 4wd system from the front axle to the transfer case. That whole system is notorious for vacuum leaks. Do yourself a favor, check them for leaks, then replace all of it. Around 20 of line total. There is a little rubber manifold for all the lines that couple at the top of the transfer case. Omit that manifold. It gets oily, and the ports lose their seal. Just place the corresponding line, on the appropriate nipple on the transfer case. By doing this, you will eliminate vacuum leaks, and prevent 4x4 engaging issues down the road. ziptie all the associated ends of lines.

 

[GAmes]

Vacuum leaks receive a lot more publicity than they deserve. A vacuum leak, by itself can not pressurize the crankcase. The in coming air would be coming through a small hose, the crankcase vent is a 3/4 inch opening. It's physics. A little extra air flow is not blow-by anyway. Add a little common sense, i.e., if all the vacuum operated components are working (4WD, cruise control, heater vents) obviously the vacuum system is good.

 

[BoeingDiesel]

Tremendo, I doubt this is a Vac' issue but I feel it's important eliminate all possibilities. If you haven't done so already I would run a vacuum check on your pump and then move onto the next. I'm doing this from memory but I think you should be pulling 16-18" at idle.

 

[Tremendo]

Vacuum leaks receive a lot more publicity than they deserve. A vacuum leak, by itself can not pressurize the crankcase. The in coming air would be coming through a small hose, the crankcase vent is a 3/4 inch opening. It's physics. A little extra air flow is not blow-by anyway. Add a little common sense, i.e., if all the vacuum operated components are working (4WD, cruise control, heater vents) obviously the vacuum system is good.

The only problem thus far I have noticed with vacuum components is the cruise control. The cruise control light stays on all the time. It does not work either. I think my cruise control is a fly by wire, I could not locate any of the components such as the servi etc.. near the batteries.

 

[GAmes]

The only problem thus far I have noticed with vacuum components is the cruise control. The cruise control light stays on all the time. It does not work either. I think my cruise control is a fly by wire, I could not locate any of the components such as the servi etc.. near the batteries.

Your cruise control servo is located under the driver's side battery tray. There is a cable leading to it from the throttle linkage. Very common for battery acid to drip on it and the vacuum hose causing an air leak and if left long enough a hole in the servo itself. To remove the battery tray, other than the obvious bolts on top there are two nuts under the fender. I urge you to invest in a factory service manual. Genos sells them.

 

[Tremendo]

I agree with Boeing Diesel. There are a few threads that will zero-in on this situation. They helped me with my 2001, same exact situation. Technically, the truck is almost 19 years old..

That's a long time for rubber hoses to live in extreme cycles. I had a blow by issue just like yours. You shouln't see anything coming from the oil fill in that kind of volume. It is an indicator that there is a vacuum/pressure imbalance in the engine. Chase down all your vacuum lines, especially under the weatherstripping at the engine cowl, and the elbow at the vacuum pump, like BoeingDiesel says. You'll be surprised how "out of sight, out of mind" applies here. Most of the lines on my truck were weathered beyond perforation. Obviously the cause of the blowby and oil consumption. And remedied all of it.
Also, there is a slew of vacuum lines that operate the 4wd system from the front axle to the transfer case. That whole system is notorious for vacuum leaks. Do yourself a favor, check them for leaks, then replace all of it. Around 20 of line total. There is a little rubber manifold for all the lines that couple at the top of the transfer case. Omit that manifold. It gets oily, and the ports lose their seal. Just place the corresponding line, on the appropriate nipple on the transfer case. By doing this, you will eliminate vacuum leaks, and prevent 4x4 engaging issues down the road. ziptie all the associated ends of lines.

Thanks for your input Poirier, i have not devoted too much time on the possibilities of a vacuum issue since all my vacuum controlled components seem to operate fine. I switched oil brand five hundred miles ago, I switched to a non synthetic base oil, I would be posting here my results soon as I reach 2k with this new oil. I used the new chevron delo 400 ck-4

 

[Rich Poirier]

Certainly. I don't normally participate in threads, but once I ran across your issue, it mimicked mine to the T. If I could minimize your grief, that I felt, why not. I actually found a thread on this issue on another forum. It made sense to investigate. Lo and behold....I found a collapsed, powdery brittle, and leaky oem elbow at the vacumm pump. Then I went from there, checked under the battery tray. All good. Then, went to the lines under the weatherstripping. All bad. I had already remedied all the lines under the truck from a prior issue, which again vacuum lines were the issue. So, what I have also learned since joining the TDR adventure, is that our trucks are finicky to lack of minor maintenance. Not our fault, just out of sight out of mind thing. Who would've thunk by wrapping a ground wire at the alternator and cleaning all your grounds would remedy a torque converter lockup problem?! Go figure. It has changed the way I look at my truck (2001 4x4 club cab), and how I approached the glitches. My mind automatically went to internals, like many I'm sure. Anyway, good luck. Rich

 

[Joe Mc]

Tremendo, welcome to the TDR! Nice looking truck, congratulations! Not to start an oil war/conversation here, just sharing what I've learned/used since purchasing mine in 05/01 w/75k miles: I started out using Valvoline Premium Blue 15/40, maybe first two oil changes (typically around 3-4000 mile intervals - yes overkill). Since then I switched (mainly due to cost and my frequent change regiment) to Rotella (a.k.a. "Goat-Smella") regular Dino oil (no synthetic) 15W/40 and haven't strayed. I've always use Fleetguard oil filters, specifically LF-3894. Present milage is 237,000 +/-.

To your "consumption" dilemma: As others mentioned check for vacuum leaks. I didn't notice any mention of checking the thread-in vent on the timing cover (has the hose attached that arcs up then down below the engine) it's unlikely, but plausible that it might be restricted a bit or clogged. By the looks of your video it doesn't appear to be clogged/restricted = I noticed a nice flow as you took video under the engine. I found that 11 quarts (including whatever will fit in the oil filter before installation) is the number that brings mine right up to the mark on the dipstick. I'm fortunate and mine stays right on the mark from change to change. Check the tappet cover for leakage (along left side of block just above the pan) another spot could be where the stock lift pump attaches to the block. As for your cruise not working, same thing on mine around 120k it was the Servo rubber diaphragm failed due to battery location. At the time it cost me like $80 for the servo from the dealer, that was 16/17 years ago so I'm sure they've at least doubled in price and probably not available from Dodge, but probably in the aftermarket iCardi, Parts Geek, Rock-Auto, etc. As others mentioned I too am thinking it is unlikely that the consumption is related to blow-by with only 80k miles, but it might end up being that. Check everything that's simple first. Also, do get a Dodge Shop Manual, as suggested sold by Geno's Garage, it'll help greatly and actually has fairly easy to follow steps and troubleshooting. Good luck to ya. And do keep us posted. "Subscribed"

 

[Cummins12V98]

Being that there seems to be no external leaks and other options are fine maybe it simply needs to have a heavy trailer attached and do some mountain towing!

 

[Tremendo]

Tremendo, welcome to the TDR! Nice looking truck, congratulations! Not to start an oil war/conversation here, just sharing what I've learned/used since purchasing mine in 05/01 w/75k miles: I started out using Valvoline Premium Blue 15/40, maybe first two oil changes (typically around 3-4000 mile intervals - yes overkill). Since then I switched (mainly due to cost and my frequent change regiment) to Rotella (a.k.a. "Goat-Smella") regular Dino oil (no synthetic) 15W/40 and haven't strayed. I've always use Fleetguard oil filters, specifically LF-3894. Present milage is 237,000 +/-.

To your "consumption" dilemma: As others mentioned check for vacuum leaks. I didn't notice any mention of checking the thread-in vent on the timing cover (has the hose attached that arcs up then down below the engine) it's unlikely, but plausible that it might be restricted a bit or clogged. By the looks of your video it doesn't appear to be clogged/restricted = I noticed a nice flow as you took video under the engine. I found that 11 quarts (including whatever will fit in the oil filter before installation) is the number that brings mine right up to the mark on the dipstick. I'm fortunate and mine stays right on the mark from change to change. Check the tappet cover for leakage (along left side of block just above the pan) another spot could be where the stock lift pump attaches to the block. As for your cruise not working, same thing on mine around 120k it was the Servo rubber diaphragm failed due to battery location. At the time it cost me like $80 for the servo from the dealer, that was 16/17 years ago so I'm sure they've at least doubled in price and probably not available from Dodge, but probably in the aftermarket iCardi, Parts Geek, Rock-Auto, etc. As others mentioned I too am thinking it is unlikely that the consumption is related to blow-by with only 80k miles, but it might end up being that. Check everything that's simple first. Also, do get a Dodge Shop Manual, as suggested sold by Geno's Garage, it'll help greatly and actually has fairly easy to follow steps and troubleshooting. Good luck to ya. And do keep us posted. "Subscribed"

Hey there Joe,
Thanks a lot for your input Joe. Like I said, I was a gassed type guy with Toyota trucks, but it became clear that a larger truck with greater power was necessary to fulfill my needs so I went with Cummins 2 gens as to I founded them to be the most reliable diesel trucks out there without paying 45k or more for a 4th gen Ram. But then after meticulously search for a good 2nd gen Ram, I founded mine with low miles but with this oil concern. Although it might be a deal breaker for some, I enjoy the power and the driving style this truck provides me. As result, I would try my best to correct this problem and keep this truck. So far, I have changed the oil to a non synthetic brand and it seems to hold this far even though it has only been driven for six hundred miles. Let’s see what happens after few more miles