Synthetic or Dino oil?

[RVTRKN]

RV, as an old timer here, don't you know better than to start an oil thread? With 5k changes I would stay with what you been using. Super duper oils and filters, extended drains, UOA's,... meh... I use what's on sale and Napa filters, 326k on the '91, 326k on the '01 and no clue on the old Ford, same stuff I use in all my off highway equipment.

With only 80k miles on a 12 year old truck, oil changes are not costing you much. I would use what makes you sleep well.

The question was more toward syn or dino, not particular brands or weights. I was just never asked this question when changing oil at the dealer. Being that I don't even know what brand, weight or type the Dealer uses, I'll be more aware of this the next time I change the oil. The cost was alot more than I was used to paying anyway, so I'll probably try another Dealer. Thanks to all that responded, I did come away with more knowledge to help me in the decision. I'm leaning to staying with Dino though.

My Toyota's have 10K mile oil change intervals for free, so I pay for the oil changes in between that. I just don't believe in going that long on the same oil. Does anybody know the difference as to why the norm was 3K-5K oil change interval to 10K-15K?

 

[JR]

Does anybody know the difference as to why the norm was 3K-5K oil change interval to 10K-15K?

Its all about the emissions equipment, 13+ went scr where the NOX is scrubbed in the exhaust with DEF rather than in the engine with copious amounts of EGR. The high % of EGR, along with regen cycles forced the short intervals.

 

[Tuesdak]

Dealer should be selling synthetic cheaper than conventional oil. Not because it is, but, there is plenty of money to be made on older trucks fixing new oil leaks from switching to synthetic. New oil leaks is the biggest reason not to switch. On sale this past week Full Synthetic was 10$ a gal cheaper than conventional for family's gas engine stuff. It leaks anyway...

Synthetic doesn't mean what it used to mean. At 5K miles the fact that Shell dino oil will go a longer distance than their synthetic to satisfy Frugal fleet managers won't matter to you. (Pointed out in a past TDR issue.) More or less synthetic oil has become glorified conventional oil and conventional oil has greatly improved. Still a difference though.

If we had a real oil pressure gauge, we don't, you would notice synthetic would have higher oil pressure at hot idle in said extreme summer temps. Even with lower pressure it's still within spec so NBD other than it indicates a difference.

Corvette is a perfect example of the difference between the oils. GM Bean counter cheap and marketing getting together to save GM the cost of an oil cooler on Corvettes for some model years way back when. Conventional oil wouldn't survive oil temps experienced on the Corvette without the oil cooler, but, synthetic would. So market it as no-compromise factory fill Mobil1 and omit the expensive oil cooler. With the troublesome cheap garbage oil cooler hoses that can't take high oil temps GM is known to use you can see the pressure to leave a factory oil cooler off anyway.

In an example of "wrong tool for the job" you can even exceed synthetic oil's ability. Recall the ads for Mobil1 showing an engine town down with no wear? Towing with a 3.9 V6 using said oil and cam wiped out at ~1/4 million miles. Yeah the owner is now doing oil analysis and it's showing em how ugly the oil gets working a 3.9 V6 this damn hard in extreme temps. (You know it's working hard when the HVAC doors change position due to extended no vacuum time and very slow leak.) Yeah lasted that much longer... Amsoil in the transmission and it's fine. Rear end is being rebuilt now. Think it's close to 300K now.
https://www.turbodieselregister.com...oosing-the-battle-with-5-misfire-code.257192/

So in extreme summer temps towing, yes, you are closer to the limits of conventional oil. This by itself on a well cooled Dodge Ram Diesel doesn't matter so much. A factor also in your favor is shorter 5K oil changes. The emissions equipment holding more heat in the engine is a factor. IMO only if SHTF like a blown radiator hose or other high oil temp event and you stayed between the failure point of conventional oil, but, under the failure temp of today's so called synthetic oil would it do you any good. Again this risk is offset by repair expense of new oil leaks.

Other rides that don't have the better cooling system your Dodge Ram has may get a better benefit from synthetic use during the summer.

 

[Newsa]

Dealer should be selling synthetic cheaper than conventional oil. Not because it is, but, there is plenty of money to be made on older trucks fixing new oil leaks from switching to synthetic. New oil leaks is the biggest reason not to switch. On sale this past week Full Synthetic was 10$ a gal cheaper than conventional for family's gas engine stuff. It leaks anyway...

Synthetic doesn't mean what it used to mean. At 5K miles the fact that Shell dino oil will go a longer distance than their synthetic to satisfy Frugal fleet managers won't matter to you. (Pointed out in a past TDR issue.) More or less synthetic oil has become glorified conventional oil and conventional oil has greatly improved. Still a difference though.

If we had a real oil pressure gauge, we don't, you would notice synthetic would have higher oil pressure at hot idle in said extreme summer temps. Even with lower pressure it's still within spec so NBD other than it indicates a difference.

Corvette is a perfect example of the difference between the oils. GM Bean counter cheap and marketing getting together to save GM the cost of an oil cooler on Corvettes for some model years way back when. Conventional oil wouldn't survive oil temps experienced on the Corvette without the oil cooler, but, synthetic would. So market it as no-compromise factory fill Mobil1 and omit the expensive oil cooler. With the troublesome cheap garbage oil cooler hoses that can't take high oil temps GM is known to use you can see the pressure to leave a factory oil cooler off anyway.

In an example of "wrong tool for the job" you can even exceed synthetic oil's ability. Recall the ads for Mobil1 showing an engine town down with no wear? Towing with a 3.9 V6 using said oil and cam wiped out at ~1/4 million miles. Yeah the owner is now doing oil analysis and it's showing em how ugly the oil gets working a 3.9 V6 this damn hard in extreme temps. (You know it's working hard when the HVAC doors change position due to extended no vacuum time and very slow leak.) Yeah lasted that much longer... Amsoil in the transmission and it's fine. Rear end is being rebuilt now. Think it's close to 300K now.
https://www.turbodieselregister.com...oosing-the-battle-with-5-misfire-code.257192/

So in extreme summer temps towing, yes, you are closer to the limits of conventional oil. This by itself on a well cooled Dodge Ram Diesel doesn't matter so much. A factor also in your favor is shorter 5K oil changes. The emissions equipment holding more heat in the engine is a factor. IMO only if SHTF like a blown radiator hose or other high oil temp event and you stayed between the failure point of conventional oil, but, under the failure temp of today's so called synthetic oil would it do you any good. Again this risk is offset by repair expense of new oil leaks.

Other rides that don't have the better cooling system your Dodge Ram has may get a better benefit from synthetic use during the summer.

Never had an older vehicle leak because i used synthetic. Supposedly PAO synthetics make seals shrink. And ester based synthetics make seals swell. But good synthetics use a combination of the 2 to keep the shrink/swell ratio balanced.

 

[RVTRKN]

Dealer should be selling synthetic cheaper than conventional oil. Not because it is, but, there is plenty of money to be made on older trucks fixing new oil leaks from switching to synthetic. New oil leaks is the biggest reason not to switch. On sale this past week Full Synthetic was 10$ a gal cheaper than conventional for family's gas engine stuff. It leaks anyway...

Synthetic doesn't mean what it used to mean. At 5K miles the fact that Shell dino oil will go a longer distance than their synthetic to satisfy Frugal fleet managers won't matter to you. (Pointed out in a past TDR issue.) More or less synthetic oil has become glorified conventional oil and conventional oil has greatly improved. Still a difference though.

If we had a real oil pressure gauge, we don't, you would notice synthetic would have higher oil pressure at hot idle in said extreme summer temps. Even with lower pressure it's still within spec so NBD other than it indicates a difference.

Corvette is a perfect example of the difference between the oils. GM Bean counter cheap and marketing getting together to save GM the cost of an oil cooler on Corvettes for some model years way back when. Conventional oil wouldn't survive oil temps experienced on the Corvette without the oil cooler, but, synthetic would. So market it as no-compromise factory fill Mobil1 and omit the expensive oil cooler. With the troublesome cheap garbage oil cooler hoses that can't take high oil temps GM is known to use you can see the pressure to leave a factory oil cooler off anyway.

In an example of "wrong tool for the job" you can even exceed synthetic oil's ability. Recall the ads for Mobil1 showing an engine town down with no wear? Towing with a 3.9 V6 using said oil and cam wiped out at ~1/4 million miles. Yeah the owner is now doing oil analysis and it's showing em how ugly the oil gets working a 3.9 V6 this damn hard in extreme temps. (You know it's working hard when the HVAC doors change position due to extended no vacuum time and very slow leak.) Yeah lasted that much longer... Amsoil in the transmission and it's fine. Rear end is being rebuilt now. Think it's close to 300K now.
https://www.turbodieselregister.com...oosing-the-battle-with-5-misfire-code.257192/

So in extreme summer temps towing, yes, you are closer to the limits of conventional oil. This by itself on a well cooled Dodge Ram Diesel doesn't matter so much. A factor also in your favor is shorter 5K oil changes. The emissions equipment holding more heat in the engine is a factor. IMO only if SHTF like a blown radiator hose or other high oil temp event and you stayed between the failure point of conventional oil, but, under the failure temp of today's so called synthetic oil would it do you any good. Again this risk is offset by repair expense of new oil leaks.

Other rides that don't have the better cooling system your Dodge Ram has may get a better benefit from synthetic use during the summer.

That’s why I changed my Harley to syn on day one. Harley’s run HOT, and I live/lived in a Hot climate. I learned this with my 2007 Harley that I ran Dino for most of the miles I put on it before trading it in.

 

[Wiredawg]

My first decision to run syn was when I read Chevy ran it in Vettes to keep them cooler. I used to own a 94, 02 and 03 at the same time so bought a 33 gal barrel of Amsoil 15W-40 and a case of StrataPores from Genos. It all worked well in all three.

Cheers, Ron

 

[Cummins12V98]

I run the 15-40 Diesel Marine AMZ/OIL in every gas engine I own along with my 12 valves and current 01 Sport. Of course i run the LE in my 15.

 

[Tuesdak]

My first decision to run syn was when I read Chevy ran it in Vettes to keep them cooler. I used to own a 94, 02 and 03 at the same time so bought a 33 gal barrel of Amsoil 15W-40 and a case of StrataPores from Genos. It all worked well in all three.

Cheers, Ron

Yeah brilliant marketing scheme to omit an engine oil cooler from the factory on Vettes and show off the capabilities of synthetic oil.

 

[Wiredawg]

JDoriire,
like Paul Harvey used to say... "and the rest of the story." So, for the record, are you dino or syn?

Ron

 

[Tuesdak]

JDoriire,
like Paul Harvey used to say... "and the rest of the story." So, for the record, are you dino or syn?

Ron

On the Cummins, now that the rings are broken in, Synthetic Amsoil Marine esp. since I have the stiffer valve springs in it and it's no longer stock. The NV5600 with the lube mods appears to be easier on the Amsoil syncromesh as far as sheering it down than it was before it was rebuilt. Amsoil in the rear diff. I have been looking into Tribodyn oil. I am waiting on the 1st UOA to come back on the 5.9 with Amsoil in it. It will make an interesting comparison of Valvoline Blue with Lucas 'Engine Break-In Oil Additive - TB Zinc Plus' the engine camshaft was broken in on.

 

[DavidC]

On the Cummins, now that the rings are broken in, Synthetic Amsoil Marine esp. since I have the stiffer valve springs in it and it's no longer stock. The NV5600 with the lube mods appears to be easier on the Amsoil syncromesh as far as sheering it down than it was before it was rebuilt. Amsoil in the rear diff. I have been looking into Tribodyn oil. I am waiting on the 1st UOA to come back on the 5.9 with Amsoil in it. It will make an interesting comparison of Valvoline Blue with Lucas 'Engine Break-In Oil Additive - TB Zinc Plus' the engine camshaft was broken in on.

Test results ?

 

[AH64ID]

Unless 5K miles is 6 months you’re changing your oil too often.

So if you’re going to dump it every 5K get the cheapest oil you can. Still run good filters thou, IMO OE filters aren’t good, only good enough for no wear issues to arise during warranty. Donaldson DBL7349 is the best filter I’ve found for these motors.

Personally I run synthetics for a couple of reasons.

I prefer a 15w-40 over a 5w-40 with how long these motors take to get to temp. Synthetic 15w-40 gives me more than enough cold temp flow, and better protection as the oil warms up. 15w-40’s generally also have a lower NOACK volatility too, so they burn off less than 5w-40’s.

I also like the high temperature performance of a synthetic.

Lastly, I have grown quite fond of the 12 month oil changes that Amsoil affords me.

The dealer might just be trying to sell you an oil change with more mark-up in the price? If they hooked it up to their Witech and see it is doing more than the usual number of active regens, they might think that you could benefit from synthetic. More than the usual number of regens could cause mild fuel dilution which synthetic can deal with better. But i doubt they did that.

I use mostly synthetic blends or synthetics. I don't have to.... I choose to.

Exactly what effect would oil have on regen frequency?

It doesn’t matter what kind of oil you have when it comes to fuel dilution.

 

[Newsa]

Unless 5K miles is 6 months you’re changing your oil too often.

So if you’re going to dump it every 5K get the cheapest oil you can. Still run good filters thou, IMO OE filters aren’t good, only good enough for no wear issues to arise during warranty. Donaldson DBL7349 is the best filter I’ve found for these motors.

Personally I run synthetics for a couple of reasons.

I prefer a 15w-40 over a 5w-40 with how long these motors take to get to temp. Synthetic 15w-40 gives me more than enough cold temp flow, and better protection as the oil warms up. 15w-40’s generally also have a lower NOACK volatility too, so they burn off less than 5w-40’s.

I also like the high temperature performance of a synthetic.

Lastly, I have grown quite fond of the 12 month oil changes that Amsoil affords me.







Exactly what effect would oil have on regen frequency?

It doesn’t matter what kind of oil you have when it comes to fuel dilution.

I have 3 gallons of Amsoil dominator 20w 50 in the oil pan since late Jan. Amsoil says it resists fuel dilution. More frequent active regens can lead to fuel dilution.

 

[AH64ID]

lDoes anybody know the difference as to why the norm was 3K-5K oil change interval to 10K-15K?

Because oils and filters are better than they once were.

Changing oil more often than required is just a waste of money, IMHO.

 

[AH64ID]

I have 3 gallons of Amsoil dominator 20w 50 in the oil pan since late Jan. Amsoil says it resists fuel dilution. More frequent active regens can lead to fuel dilution.

5% fuel is 5% fuel, regardless of the oil.

The oil in the sump has zero effect on the frequency of regents.

 

[Newsa]

5% fuel is 5% fuel, regardless of the oil.

The oil in the sump has zero effect on the frequency of regents.

5% fuel is less likely to dilute a 20w 50 weight oil to a 10w 30 weight oil than it is to dilute a 15w 40 weight oil out of it's viscosity category. I had been using kendall super d xa 15w 40 which has a kinematic viscosity sort of in the high range of the 15w 40 specs. But i now like the 20w 50 dominator better.
I was using rotella 5w 40 T6 at christmas and it got a bit diluted. The T6 was just some old oil i had bought on sale and had stored for a year. I wanted to get it out of the shed.

The oil in the sump doesn't trigger the regen. My sorry a$$ DPF pressures (pressure differential) triggers the regens. But the 20w 50 dominator is my choice of oil to prevent oil dropping below it's optimal weight in the presence of a bit of fuel dilution

 

[Newsa]

Sharing 3 UOA's. The fuel dilution appears erratic. Like it is not a leaky injector, instead occuring during repeated regens when the dpf has trouble clearing itself.

You will notice in 980 miles... Zero fuel dilution, so i didn't change the oil. Then on the same oil, at 1683 miles, (only 700 ish miles later) it is diluted.

 

[TCDiesel]

Newsa thats still high 8.4 -6.9% concerning IMO. The damage is done on contact. Fuel/oil.

I would take sample Before Stationary De-soot. Put the truck into stationary De-soot (Yes you need WItech) than take another sample and change the oil. Send both in and see what results you get. remember your goona use 1-2 Gallons of fuel during the Stationary De-sooting.

 

[AH64ID]

Wow that’s a lot of fuel for such low miles. Something isn’t right.

 

[RVTRKN]

Because oils and filters are better than they once were. Changing oil more often than required is just a waste of money, IMHO.

Ya sure, if you want to listen to some bureaucrat in Washington, begging (I mean directing) the auto makers to extend out the intervals. Think about it, in the government eyes you cut back the use of engine oil in half. I'm not drinking that Kool-Aid, just because some algorithm, I don't trust, makes the choice for you when to change your oil. Do you believe your OEM oil pressure gauge?