Then there was four- digits of torque.

[Cummins12V98]

Gear limit switch is on the steering wheel

Going from 30k to 35k on trailer weight is a big mistake with 17" tires. That truck needs 19.5s...

I would like more tire on the front even tho it’s fine. A wider tire would be nice. Rears have lots of capacity left.

Please explain why it needs 19.5’s.

 

[NIsaacs]

I understand their reasoning for the de-rate, but why not do like the big truck folks do, pay to play. You want the higher rating of this engine, and warranty? Here's the price. In the end they are only fooling themselves, when you drive down the road, and see hotshotters loaded to the gills with fully warranted 3500 pickups.

Here is some info to help you compare when the cab chassis info comes out. These are current numbers. I have your back, Tom

Ram: 325/750
Ford: 330/750
Chevy: 350/700

Now for the goodies...Note this quote from GM...

"In this case, the medium duty engine is rated at 350 hp and 700 lb-ft of torque. Why doesn’t the bigger trucks get the full 910 lb-ft of torque? It has to do with a engine dyno (not chassis dyno) power rating and more stringent emissions requirements for this class of truck".

I have never seen this before, however, it makes sense. This may be why owners of the cab chassis trucks say they don't pull as anemic as the numbers imply.

 

[TFucili]

... I have your back, Tom

It's not my back I'm worried about It's my checkbook.Oh, and the "Company Commander" is giving sideways glances

 

[CUMMINZ]

Gear limit switch is on the steering wheel


I would like more tire on the front even tho it’s fine. A wider tire would be nice. Rears have lots of capacity left.

Please explain why it needs 19.5’s.

Everyday when you tow heavy with 17" tires you overload them not even knowing it. That in itself is not the biggest problem. Especially when you tow in excess of 30k... Now it is 35k with new rigs you have a problem especially when several things happen at the same time. You are driving along without a care in the world and your axles/tires on the towed rig ease off the shoulder. That sets off a chain reaction. The front of the rig at the king pin violently kicks the rear of your truck toward the center of the highway. Your nearly overloaded 17" tires squish one way. The driver reacts to correct this. The towed vehicles tires re-enter the road and violently kicks the rear of the truck in the other direction. During this time one side of your truck those two dually tires slide off the shoulder. What if the should looks like they do in the photos below. As soon as the outside tire leaves the ground the inside tire have 6k of simulated load on it. By this time your wife is jumping out of her door. Repeat this situation with 19.5s you are calm.

 

[TFucili]

Maybe I'll just jump to this

 

[Wiredawg]

One thing I learned right here on the TDR in a facts article, the C&C Cummins 6.7L motors since 2013 aren't merely derated by programming, they have a different cam that delivers max HP at 2400 rpm versus the 2900 the pickup motors see. There maybe other elements, but I believe this is why programmers and chips designed for the pickups don't work on the C&Cs. It'll be interesting if Ram/Cummins offer any increases in the C&C motors.

Just for marketing in the rv towing and ranching arena where big GVWR and GCWR are needed, a 5500 competes pretty well with a Freightliner. I shared this with a Sport Chassis dealer, and he conceded this was a challenge for them. Ram 5500 Laramie 4x4 19.5K lbs GVWR/38.5K lbs GCWR ~$78K ; Freightliner 4x2 19.5K/40K Lbs ~$150K. And the 5500 with 9ft tow body is only about a foot longer and the same height as a 3500.

Very interesting thread.

Ron

 

[Jim W]

RON, Are you sure about the difference in the engine!
When I attended the 2013 Rally at the Cummins plant, during the Q&A period this question was asked. What are the difference in the engines being built at this plant? The answer that the rep provide was all engines are built the same with only the paint job for Freightliner and FCA being different. The freightliner were painted red and the FCA engines were clear coated. All of the 6.7L engines went down the same assembly line and there was no difference in the parts that were assembled In them. The assembler just picked items from the assembly bins and installed them in the engine. The engines were all air tested with some being chosen for a hot test. Than off to paint either to be clear coated or painted red. The electronics are different but as far as iron they are all the same at least that is what the Cummins Engineer stated in the Q & A.

Now it may have changed since than nothing in assembly or design ever stays static.

 

[TCDiesel]

If they bolt this pump/rail to the new 6.7 we will be offering conversion kits Immediately.. Cummins did not learn anything form the Ford / GM, this pump when it fails its a Particle maker, unlike the CP3.

Yes I 've seen them (CP4$) go to 500K Miles ,but that requires 1/2K$ Bypass /Auxiliary fuel filtration.

Yes I've seen the new dual filters fail when it comes to contaminated fuel.



#ad

 

[Wiredawg]

Jim,
This isn't the difference between Freightliner and Ram... I'm talking on the engine just within Ram, there are different software and mechanics (camshaft) between the C&Cs and PUs.
Only as sure as the 2013 Buyers Guide page 26 here on the TDR:

"With the cab and chassis engine there was a change the
camshaft’s intake duration and lift. Power ratings and
fuel economy necessitated the changes. The cam for
the consumer pickup trucks remains the same. On the
assembly line they do a photo scan to ensure the correct
cam is used in an engine. This is the end of the cam
showing the drive gear already installed.
​

Goes to show you how much time I have being retired. This is the only reference I found to this, but I believe the Cummins website bears this out. The show Cab and Chassis motors as a separate category and show max HP at 2400 RPM. The pickup engines and specs are listed in a separate category with 2900 max HP.

This goes to show you how much research I did before purchasing my 5500.

Interesting, huh?

Cheers, Ron

​

 

[Wiredawg]

Check this on the Cummins website: (note 2013 has same HP/TQ specs, but 2018 must have different EPA specs). I was blown away too.

 

[Wiredawg]

"Everyday when you tow heavy with 17" tires you overload them not even knowing it. That in itself is not the biggest problem. Especially when you tow in excess of 30k... Now it is 35k with new rigs you have a problem especially when several things happen at the same time. You are driving along without a care in the world and your axles/tires on the towed rig ease off the shoulder. That sets off a chain reaction. The front of the rig at the king pin violently kicks the rear of your truck toward the center of the highway. Your nearly overloaded 17" tires squish one way. The driver reacts to correct this. The towed vehicles tires re-enter the road and violently kicks the rear of the truck in the other direction. During this time one side of your truck those two dually tires slide off the shoulder. What if the should looks like they do in the photos below. As soon as the outside tire leaves the ground the inside tire have 6k of simulated load on it. By this time your wife is jumping out of her door. Repeat this situation with 19.5s you are calm."

CUMINZ, Just my perspective on your scenario of catching the edge of the road: I love the 19.5s, but I learned the stiffer sidewalls and lower profile tend to push the rear in the direction of a slope. I have to be careful on narrow roads. In Texas on two lane roads with extra wide shoulders, it's a common courtesy to provide "Texas Courtesy Pass," many 18 wheelers do it, but not me... I stay firmly planted in my lane.

Not disagreeing with you...just adding my experience with loaded low profile 19.5 tires.

Cheers, Ron

 

[Cummins12V98]

RON, Are you sure about the difference in the engine!
When I attended the 2013 Rally at the Cummins plant, during the Q&A period this question was asked. What are the difference in the engines being built at this plant? The answer that the rep provide was all engines are built the same with only the paint job for Freightliner and FCA being different. The freightliner were painted red and the FCA engines were clear coated. All of the 6.7L engines went down the same assembly line and there was no difference in the parts that were assembled In them. The assembler just picked items from the assembly bins and installed them in the engine. The engines were all air tested with some being chosen for a hot test. Than off to paint either to be clear coated or painted red. The electronics are different but as far as iron they are all the same at least that is what the Cummins Engineer stated in the Q & A.

Now it may have changed since than nothing in assembly or design ever stays static.

I was told the engines are ALL the same, my tour was mid 2016. Head engineer was filling in for the tour. Paint and tuning the exception.

 

[Wiredawg]

Ron,
I hear you, but I believe the facts I've found here on the TDR and at the Cummins website. If it's just different programming, why would Cummins separate them on the website AND how do you account for rpms where the motor finds max hp. Within pickups, Cummins accounts for the HP/TQ ranges for the pickups, why not just include the C&Cs too?

Because I'm retired and just piddling, I'll contact author of the buyers guide here on the TDR and ask him/her.

Ron

 

[Wiredawg]

Ron,
Robert Patton was the presenter of the info in the guide. I sent the following for clarification:

Ref 2013 Buyers Guide, pg26, Robert Patton presents information the 2013+ 6.7L Cummins used in C&Cs is different than what is used in the pickups. There TDR members disputing this information and contend the engines are the same in C&Cs and pickups. Thank you, Ron

So, I'll share when I receive a response.

Ron

 

[TCDiesel]

We'll I just finish Meeting with Cummins Rep, 95% of parts form 2007.5 6.7 to 2018 are NOT unchangeable with 2019 6.7 Cummins

 

[TFucili]

If they bolt this pump/rail to the new 6.7 we will be offering conversion kits Immediately.. Cummins did not learn anything form the Ford / GM, this pump when it fails its a Particle maker, unlike the CP3.

Yes I 've seen them (CP4$) go to 500K Miles ,but that requires 1/2K$ Bypass /Auxiliary fuel filtration.

Yes I've seen the new dual filters fail when it comes to contaminated fuel.



#ad

I gotta say I'm a little cheesed about this. When I watched the interview with the Cummins lead engineer he made it sound like the CP4 is required to attain the higher rail pressure. Am I to assume that is BS and the CP3 is plenty capable of 29K psi??? If they went to the CP4 just for cost savings I have lost some respect for Cummins and Ram.

 

[Learjet]

sounds like I need 3 years of in service reports before I consider a new one....lots of changes to be proven reliable.

 

[TCDiesel]

I gotta say I'm a little cheesed about this. When I watched the interview with the Cummins lead engineer he made it sound like the CP4 is required to attain the higher rail pressure. Am I to assume that is BS and the CP3 is plenty capable of 29K psi??? If they went to the CP4 just for cost savings I have lost some respect for Cummins and Ram.

What........that's the same Line Bosch served up to GM....Well we can Mod the CP4 to last longer like I mentioned , You will be able to remove the 2019 6.7 in like 5 minutes the Gear comes with the Pump in the 2019.... I do have 1 Problem the New Gear Train will spin the CP3 much faster... and I'm proud to announce I have the CP3 HIGH RPM in production for 14 Years, My competitors will be copying me again, Those Shops weren't even in Business when I was leaving My blood and sweat on Pumps...

John at Floor it Diesel had the 1st Modded CP3, Shane at Wicked Diesel, II and Myself were all about the same time....

 

[AnonEd]

The C&C will get an output bump from 2018 numbers, and yes, the emissions and output are certified using different methods. Since the 2019 pickup engines have two different compression ratios (among other things) I think it safe to say the engines are not all the same inside.

 

[Wiredawg]

Taking this backto the top, 30HP/70TQ is an incremental increase that happens to take the total to big numbers 400/1000. Sure there will be beefier components, improved programming, including torque management.

I think its great on one hand, but have to consider how much more critical the brake system, powertrain, and frame are affected. It's amazing how far technology has taken us.

As for the construction of the block using powdered graphite, I'm not worried. Been years since studying metallurgy, but ball bearings are made from powdered metal.

I'm excited FCA, Ram, and Cummins are leading the competition on trucks. Just have to wonder where it goes after this.

Cheers, Ron