Factory brake controller

[SnoKing]

At the trailer connector with the wiring repair from 2018:
Assuming approximately 3.2 ohms for each brake coil, the total brake resistance would be .8 ohms.
Fluke 87 meter; lead resistance .1 ohm.
Cleaned contact surface tarnish/corrosion off of trailer plug contacts (decreased ~ .2 ohm from original reading through dirty contacts)
Measured through trailer plug brake terminal to ground terminal 1.1 ohm.
Measured through trailer plug brake terminal to trailer chassis ground 1.1 ohm.

Calculated current using 12.0 to 12.7 VDC would vary between 15 to just under 16 amps maximum.

But because of the PWM the voltage is not 12.0 to 12.7 as an average, unless the positive pulse is almost the full width with very little time at zero volts. Or it is really the 15-16 amps in only while the DC pulse are at full source value. Then one has the average the effective amps based on the percent of time to pulses are at full voltage and when they are at zero. So lets say the positive pulse in 100ms and the zero is 50ms. Then the effective amps would be 2/3 of the 15-16 amps.

 

[SnoKing]

I imagine if I wanted to sell my BrakeSmart I would get a good price for it, but naaaa it aint going to happen.

Given that they are tending to fail as they age, a working one may not be that good of a long term investment. SnoKing

 

[PBJ2500CTD]

But because of the PWM the voltage is not 12.0 to 12.7 as an average, unless the positive pulse is almost the full width with very little time at zero volts. Or it is really the 15-16 amps in only while the DC pulse are at full source value. Then one has the average the effective amps based on the percent of time to pulses are at full voltage and when they are at zero. So lets say the positive pulse in 150ms and the zero is 50ms. Then the effective amps would be 2/3 of the 15-16 amps.

Totally agree...The PWM signal would be the variable output the engineers designed into the circuits. If only they would share how they do it and what are the inputs and expected output for a given event. What effect, if any, does speed, deceleration, brake pressure, etc. have on the outputs. I like to have the schematics of the little non-descript "white" boxes that all the wires go into or out of in the wiring diagrams. Even a basic signal flow and process dialog would be better than what is available in today's diagrams.

 

[SnoKing]

Somebody with a o-scope or duty cycle meter should be able about to document it. In fact I have seen write ups where this has been done.

 

[SnoKing]

SnoKing, do you mind posting link to the thread associated with this attachment? I'm going blind trying searching the Forrest River website, and get 20 pages searching ram brake controller.

Thanks,

Ron

https://www.ramforum.com/threads/brake-controller.71708/page-1

 

[SnoKing]

Here is a post with wave forms between a 2013 and 2015.

https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/28817052/srt/pa/pging/1/page/6.cfm

 

[Wiredawg]

https://www.ramforum.com/threads/brake-controller.71708/page-17

Thanks buddy! BTW, your link is golden. One of the members proves my suspicion you can unplug the output connector from the Ram ITBM and plug in an aftermarket controller using the standard truck trailer wiring.

"I bought the Prodigy cable that plugs into the RAM ITBM connector and my Prodigy P2brake controller, installed the P2 in my 2015RAM 3500. The P2 provides full voltage to my trailer so this rules out a wiring or connector issue, at least on my truck. I know from reading around, others have gone the same route with the same success."

I did not read where unplugging the ITBM set any codes. It's late and getting ready to crash, but tomorrow I'm going to check the ITBM circuit diagram I posted to see of feasible to unplug the ITBM output from the standard trailer wiring blue plug and leave the second ITBM connector plugged in to fool the BCM to keep from having problems and permanently connect an after market controller. Sucks, but all the facts seem to point this as the solution. You might be able to get the dash filler to replace the controller face and just tie wrap it under the dash.

Much more to come.

Cheers, Ron

 

[SnoKing]

#ad

 

[EZeis]

I imagine if I wanted to sell my BrakeSmart I would get a good price for it, but naaaa it aint going to happen.

It's gold! I still have mine from back in the day too! Probably have it till I die. Lol my 18 does extremely well, pretty much online with the Brakesmart. Doubt I'd have to install the Brakesmart in it.


Earl

 

[RVTRKN]

I've been following this thread, and I don't understand why Ram can't get a handle on this issue. As you testify your ITBM is as good as the Brakesmart, but others with the same ITBM, can't stop under the advertised GCVW. Also, this is the first time I've read/heard about this issue.

 

[Wiredawg]

Friends,

There are years of posts on threads from several forums documenting unsatisfactory ITBM performance from Ram owners on their trucks, especially towing heavy (more than 10KLbs?). It appears the following may be a fair assessment at this point:

2011-2012 part # 82212548 Satisfactory
2013-2014 part # 82213474 Satisfactory
2015. part # 82214492 AB Unsatisfactory
2016-2019 part # 82215040AB Satisfactory

For the Satisfactory years, keep trailer brakes and wiring in good condition per normal trailer maintenance practices. Optimized trailer brake and wiring keep good controllers at peak efficiency and could provide marginal improvement for MY15 owners.

For MY15 and a few other MYs who may be having problems: Bypass Ram factory ITBM with aftermarket controller. I had a Prodigy P2 on my 09 4500 I got good service from. I would take ITBM performance data from your trucks and file complaints with FCA, NTSB, BBB, and others with your efforts to remedy the problem and the dangers the inferior controller presents.

I'm sure there are some who've already replaced their controllers, so would be good to have detailed steps how to do this.

As several frustrated owners have pointed out out, they have exhausted efforts to make their ITBMs work properly and safely. Sometimes you cannot overcome poor engineering, and perhaps, the only way the predominantly MY15 owners will be satisfied with their systems, is for FCA to come out with a TSB to include software and hardware updates/upgrades.

We have lots of data and complaints so may be time to bring this thread to consensus on facts and solutions.

Cheers, Ron

 

[SnoKing]

I am pretty sure this could be fixed with just programming. I filed with safercar.gov several years ago. Chris

 

[TFucili]

First, they would have to admit they missed the mark.

 

[SnoKing]

The more complaints filed on safercar.gov the sooner they will take action.

 

[Cummins12V98]

I am pretty sure this could be fixed with just programming. I filed with safercar.gov several years ago. Chris

My controller works better after they did an update, but still NOT great IMHO.

 

[Wiredawg]

Friends,
Gathered data today on both my wife's 2019 Ram 1500 and my 2017 Ram 5500. I believe the test is good as my wife is an aggressive driver, either her foot is on the accelerator or the brake and not too much coasting. The Tekonsha Tester never got hot during the test. Above I reported 5500 numbers were mirroring trouble trucks, but I had controller set on 4 from hauling my 7KLb (empty) dump trailer, to keep from burning tires up. After thinking about it, I checked and changed setting from 4 to 10.

TEST CRITERIA:
According to Tekonsha, test pass required controller set on max (10) and read 10VDC AND 10AMPS using the manual lever on the controller
I conducted the test gathering data both from in-gear manual and in gear brakes
I conducted test on controllers in both trucks set on electric heavy and level 10.
Test course included ~12 miles interstate 75MPH speed limit; ~10 miles 2-lane country road 55MPH and occasional stop lights. and about 3 miles city traffic 30 MPH speed limit

OBSERVATIONS:
The voltage and current numbers appear a little better on the 1500 than the 5500
Traffic was light with ~10 stoplights
Weather was clear and dry
Road grade mostly flat, some short slight grades
The combination of sensors and controls on both trucks kept max voltage to 11.5VDC and max current was 16 amps on the 1500 and 14 Amps on the 5500.

CONCLUSION:
Both trucks passed the tests, meeting the criteria of Tekonsha

Here are the results for your review and comment(s):

View attachment 113127

So, this is all the testing I'm going to accomplish until I'm fully mobile again. Happy to discuss and compare.

Cheers, Ron

Friends,
I reread this entire thread (proof I have too much time on my hands) and taking this back to the OP, Joe Sobiech has a 2017 truck. Mine is a 2017 also.

At 30 MPH, I measured 9VDC/14Amps in gear using the manual lever and 10VDC/14Amps in gear applying foot brake, more than enough to stop the trailer. I see good performance pulling/stopping at this speed, and tested it numerous times traveling in traffic in San Francisco and LA.

Joe, I hope this helps you with your truck. Theoretically, 2016 through 2019 trucks should see better ITBM performance.

My wife's 2019 ITBM performed better than my 2017 5500, so don't know if Ram refined it more or if this is a performance deviation of the same system.

We're all waiting and hoping you get good results on your trip to the dealer. FCA needs to understand if they are selling trucks with big tow numbers, they have to make sure their trucks can stop those big tow weights.

Let us know the results.

Good luck brother!

Cheers, Ron

 

[jhenderson]

You’ve proven the controller pulls voltage at low speed. Just what the complaint is. While 9 amps may be enough to stop, it’s not the emergency braking available from other oem controllers or the aftermarket. And that was at 30mph. What was it at 15? Picture yourself going down one one of San Francisco’s famous hills to a 4 way stop and having the truck pull voltage to 7 or 8 at 20 mph just before the intersection. Not good.

 

[Wiredawg]

You’ve proven the controller pulls voltage at low speed. Just what the complaint is. While 9 amps may be enough to stop, it’s not the emergency braking available from other oem controllers or the aftermarket. And that was at 30mph. What was it at 15? Picture yourself going down one one of San Francisco’s famous hills to a 4 way stop and having the truck pull voltage to 7 or 8 at 20 mph just before the intersection. Not good.

Slamming on the brakes at 15MPH resulted in 11VDC/12Amps. I only performed
emergency stopping with service brakes on our private road. And I have performed emergency braking towing with SUPERIOR RESULTS. In fairness, I plan to do more 15mph emergency stop tests. In Texas, in order for RV to pass state inspection, trailer brakes only must stop truck immediately at ~5MPH.

Happy to answer more questions?

Most of San Francisco's famous hills prohibit buses and large vehicles. I noted that during our visit.

I'm willing to recognize you and others are having problems, but you seem reluctant to recognize there are owners that are having great performance.

Ron

 

[Wiredawg]

JHenderson,

I quit revising my post above, but for everyone's information, EVERYTIME I leave on a trip going down our 1/4 mile road, I max the manual lever on my controller to verify operation of the brakes on my RV and other trailers. This helps me ensure I have level properly adjusted. This is always 15MPH.

AND you grabbed the wrong number. 9VDC not Amps with manual lever and 10VDC applying service brakes. Note the 14 Amps on both above.

Hope this helps everyone understand how a well functioning system performs.

Cheers, Ron

 

[SnoKing]

Slamming on the brakes at 15MPH resulted in 11VDC/12Amps. I only performed
emergency stopping with service brakes on our private road. And I have performed emergency braking towing with SUPERIOR RESULTS. In fairness, I plan to do more 15mph emergency stop tests. In Texas, in order for RV to pass state inspection, trailer brakes only must stop truck immediately at ~5MPH.

Happy to answer more questions?

Most of San Francisco's famous hills prohibit buses and large vehicles. I noted that during our visit.

View attachment 113168


I'm willing to recognize you and others are having problems, but you seem reluctant to recognize there are owners that are having great performance.

Ron

OH NO! When I drove our 7K+ 2001.5 Std Cab 4x4 RAM/Cummins down Lombard Street I did not see the 3 ton sign. Maybe it went up when I displaced bricks? Yeap, compare the sign in this picture from 2006. SnoKing