Supertech DEF production date

[kthaxton]

I have provided a few things that I believe to be fact. If you disagree, please debunk.

i.e. the chemical reaction of that takes place in an SCR system and the freezing/thaw characteristics of the mixture. I mean, I didn't know that until I saw it in the link myself, by all means, if it is wrong, explain how. I don't believe either of these to be opinions regardless of how they were presented (i.e. posted links), but again, feel free to debunk.

Here's a fun fact, a piece of information, isn't automatically an opinion, or wrong, merely because it was presented in a link. In fact, often times it is more likely accurate since you do not have to rely on the statement or OPINION of the one who posted it. You really need to abandon this thought process as you have brought this up many times in other discussions. Links ≠ bad information.

What I do know is you have provided NO facts , or evidence other than Paste and copied Opinions. No Statues . Or Reg on 32.5% Na-da.

While I don't have the motivation to track these requirements down for you, I can tell what is LIKELY the way the rule works. I see two possibilities.

One, the EPA, OSHA and DOT all like to use the term "Incorporated by Reference" where a second document, not originated by them, is mentioned in their regs and therefore those requirements are enforceable. So, it's very likely the EPA either mentions the ISO standard somewhere specific, or merely lists it separately in their testing criteria.

Two, it could also be that they approve an emission system based on specific testing parameters, if those parameters included ISO spec DEF, then if off-spec DEF is used, it would not meet their criteria.

So, while I can't say for sure, it is very likely one or a combination of the two scenarios above.

That said, now that I have given an opinion, or what I BELIEVE to be the situation, would you have preferred I searched for hard evidence and provided a link, or do you prefer me guessing? I'd take a link with hard evidence any day.

 

[pwr2tow]

I have provided a few things that I believe to be fact. If you disagree, please debunk.

i.e. the chemical reaction of that takes place in an SCR system and the freezing/thaw characteristics of the mixture. I mean, I didn't know that until I saw it in the link myself, by all means, if it is wrong, explain how. I don't believe either of these to be opinions regardless of how they were presented (i.e. posted links), but again, feel free to debunk.

Here's a fun fact, a piece of information, isn't automatically an opinion, or wrong, merely because it was presented in a link. In fact, often times it is more likely accurate since you do not have to rely on the statement or OPINION of the one who posted it. You really need to abandon this thought process as you have brought this up many times in other discussions. Links ≠ bad information.



While I don't have the motivation to track these requirements down for you, I can tell what is LIKELY the way the rule works. I see two possibilities.

One, the EPA, OSHA and DOT all like to use the term "Incorporated by Reference" where a second document, not originated by them, is mentioned in their regs and therefore those requirements are enforceable. So, it's very likely the EPA either mentions the ISO standard somewhere specific, or merely lists it separately in their testing criteria.

Two, it could also be that they approve an emission system based on specific testing parameters, if those parameters included ISO spec DEF, then if off-spec DEF is used, it would not meet their criteria.

So, while I can't say for sure, it is very likely one or a combination of the two scenarios above.

That said, now that I have given an opinion, or what I BELIEVE to be the situation, would you have preferred I searched for hard evidence and provided a link, or do you prefer me guessing? I'd take a link with hard evidence any day.

I get what you're saying. But in all of the legality what's the difference if it's off spec or if they just claim contaminated Def as they do already. At least the off-spec would be honest and they're claiming contamination well you know what that is. II who cares if it's off-spec as long as it's not enforceable yet. I thought the discussion was in more towards if diluted Def works or not.

 

[SnoKing]

Since you asked, yes.

The fact that the system will work on less concentration and perhaps diluting the percentage as a maintenance criteria ever so often might actually help the injector nozzle from plugging. I'll refrain from smart Alex memes.

So you have seen or done tests that show SCR systems operate at the same level with a lower concentration percentage of DEF? So give us the percentage plus or minus that the systems operate within specs.

 

[pwr2tow]

So you have seen or done tests that show SCR systems operate at the same level with a lower concentration percentage of DEF? So give us the percentage plus or minus that the systems operate within specs.

Never said I did, but I take TC diesels word for truth. At least he's somebody that has experiment with Def concentrations and not just reiterating what some papers have said.

 

[pwr2tow]

So you have seen or done tests that show SCR systems operate at the same level with a lower concentration percentage of DEF? So give us the percentage plus or minus that the systems operate within specs.

I'll ask you the same question how can you unilaterally say different concentrations will not work? Have you experimented with def concentrations? You're the one that's saying it will not work in a lower concentration, prove it. And I don't mean with paperwork actually go out and do the experiments like TC diesel did.

 

[SnoKing]

Never said I did, but I take TC diesels word for truth. At least he's somebody that has experiment with Def concentrations and not just reiterating what some papers have said.

The unabomber experimented with concentrations also, you see where is got him.
Cut and paste:
Notable work
Industrial Society and Its Future (1995)

 

[TCDiesel]

Go back and do a search, I posted that the Ecodiesel 3.0 would fail emission testing (2015) 2 years before The EPA agree with TC Diesel. I tested My theory on the ED because it was behaving differently than Other Diesel's . I also posted that the Spec MS11106 Lube for the 3.0 was not the best , 16 months later FCA agreed with TC Diesel. I tested the levels on the 3.0 I just don't have time right now to lease the equipment for My Cummins. And Yes I ran different concentration levels. The Higher concentration level even 42% to 10% had little effect on tail pipe emission level. The ED levels changed at conditional programing So it was more difficult to get precise levels.

 

[SnoKing]

I'll ask you the same question how can you unilaterally say different concentrations will not work? Have you experimented with def concentrations? You're the one that's saying it will not work in a lower concentration, prove it. And I don't mean with paperwork actually go out and do the experiments like TC diesel did.

Ha! Ha! From Todd's sig line:

"Your Truck, Your Money, Your Choices."

Do what you want, and I will do what I want! That is pour in another box of Peak BlueDEF(after verifying the date code) when the gauge reaches 1/2 and motor on. That is what this thread was started about, that is the production date of Supertech DEF by a retailer that also sells Peak BlueDEF.

SnoKing

 

[TCDiesel]

The unabomber experimented with concentrations also, you see where is got him.
Cut and paste:
Notable work
Industrial Society and Its Future (1995)

Its very unlikely next to impossible that lower concentration levels are going to blow up Vehicle's....I'll get banned for the rest of My comment so just use your imagination.

If the law would have Hired Me and My team I would have grabbed the Unabomber Years earlier... The so called experts had their hands tied on liberal Judicial System.

 

[pwr2tow]

Go back and do a search, I posted that the Ecodiesel 3.0 would fail emission testing (2015) 2 years before The EPA agree with TC Diesel. I tested My theory on the ED because it was behaving differently than Other Diesel's . I also posted that the Spec MS11106 Lube for the 3.0 was not the best , 16 months later FCA agreed with TC Diesel. I tested the levels on the 3.0 I just don't have time right now to lease the equipment for My Cummins. And Yes I ran different concentration levels. The Higher concentration level even 42% to 10% had little effect on tail pipe emission level. The ED levels changed at conditional programing So it was more difficult to get precise levels.

Yep, I remember you on the ED website, and you're exactly right on both accounts. I was under the username Haeley. I fought a vigorous fight for the correct oil too. Along with FCA needs to key the injection pump to keep the engines from imploding. For those going, huh, it has to due with timing.

It's a shame what those website douche bags did to mustangshawn.

Anyhow, keep up the good work, we might not always agree in the future but at least I know your not just some internet keyboard mad scientist. LOL.

See yah when they build a better mouse trap.

 

[pwr2tow]

Ha! Ha! From Todd's sig line:

"Your Truck, Your Money, Your Choices."

Do what you want, and I will do what I want! That is pour in another box of Peak BlueDEF(after verifying the date code) when the gauge reaches 1/2 and motor on. That is what this thread was started about, that is the production date of Supertech DEF by a retailer that also sells Peak BlueDEF.

SnoKing

The renter of my land has a 500 gallon tote that the John Deere dealership gave him when he bought his new combine and it's been sitting in his Quonset for the past 6 years going from +100 degrees Fahrenheit to -40 degrees Fahrenheit for the last 6 years and he is still using it. I think somebody forgot to tell the John Deere dealership and my renter that his Def is no longer any good. LOL.
I'm not saying I would use it but it doesn't seem to matter to them.

 

[SnoKing]

The renter of my land has a 500 gallon tote that the John Deere dealership gave him when he bought his new combine and it's been sitting in his Quonset for the past 6 years going from +100 degrees Fahrenheit to -40 degrees Fahrenheit for the last 6 years and he is still using it. I think somebody forgot to tell the John Deere dealership and my renter that his Def is no longer any good. LOL.
I'm not saying I would use it but it doesn't seem to matter to them.

Again as Todd says:

"Your Truck, Your Money, Your Choices."

 

[TCDiesel]

Yep, I remember you on the ED website, and you're exactly right on both accounts. I was under the username Haeley. I fought a vigorous fight for the correct oil too. Along with FCA needs to key the injection pump to keep the engines from imploding. For those going, huh, it has to due with timing.

It's a shame what those website douche bags did to mustangshawn.

Anyhow, keep up the good work, we might not always agree in the future but at least I know your not just some internet keyboard mad scientist. LOL.

See yah when they build a better mouse trap.

Yep, I spoke to Him on the Phone a few Times I enjoyed our conversations, his motives were honorable and it Sadden Me When I found out He took his life...

Also that Site membership is dwindling daily YEY... and ecodieselXX is increasing Daily.

 

[pwr2tow]

Again as Todd says:

"Your Truck, Your Money, Your Choices."

I'm glad you agree with Todd.

 

[Minnow101]

Late to the party but can TCDiesel tell me the rationale for making your own DEF. DEF is not that expensive nor does the normal late model diesel pickup owner use much of it over the course of a year.

 

[TCDiesel]

Urea is a solid and when its separates it clogs everything, Pump, lines, and most of all the Injector, If it triggers the message the vehicles countdown begins, The latest victim was last Weekend Stranded Him and Family in WY, He had to return to work and the tickets for him and his family was in the $1000s. According to the Dealer and the Pictures it will be about $2000.00 for the Repair. Most likely this could have been avoided by lower levels of Urea.

The Owner fill his DEF from pumps and containers.

__________________________________________________________________________________

Making My own because its about $1.00 PG and I know its good and lower concentrate.

The DEF fanatic's want you to believe its NOT a problem and rarely happens. My Guess is about 10% of owners with Bluetec engines will experience DEF problem within the 1-8 years of ownership.

Most DEF fanatic's own 1 truck and base what happens to them to everyone.

 

[kthaxton]

The fact that it starts as a solid does not mean it stays a solid. It is miscible in water and technically won't "separate", it will stay liquid until the water begins to evaporate.
Any DEF/urea solids/crystals are not the result of separation, but the result of the water evaporating.

 

[TCDiesel]

LMBO KT....

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[TCDiesel]

...............
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[sag2]

The crystals you see there are more than likely caused by the DEF evaporating as it left the injector, or dribbling out of the injector when the engine was shut off and the water evaporated in the heat of the SCR CAT. The other cause could be debris stuck in the injector and then it clogs and the spray pattern is not correct. That in turn leads to more crystallization as the water evaporates and more crystals are left behind. But even debris in the system should be trapped by the filters and screens.
If it was caused by the Urea falling out of solution, it should be caught by one of the filters or screens before it reaches the injector.
All of the situations shown could be cleaned up by soaking in water if someone took the time to do it. The injectors can also be cleaned by soaking in water, but most dealers/shops will just want to throw parts at it. See the TDR issue 102 page 104 for some additional background on DEF faults.