Frame rot

[MarkEagleUSA]

This is in my buddy's shop as we speak.

That repair looks... um... bad.

 

[DavidC]

That repair looks... um... bad.

Give's you the momentum to do better

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

Give's you the momentum to do better

Here's one of the 3 repair sections I'm working on (before some major refinements I did tonight).

I put a lot of thought into how to proceed as well as listening to all the comments here and from some of the fabricators and machinists I work with.

I couldn't bring myself to do anything like in those pics.

 

[DavidC]

Perty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jgillott]

That repair looks... um... bad.

You would really be surprised what people attempt to have inspected. This is actually much better than some that I've seen. Many people just try to sneak things through without even an attempt to fix a known problem.

 

[MichaelOverfield]

If anything can be taken away from those pictures, it's the massive crack in the frame from what looks to be a previous attempted repair (1st pic).

Without knowing the full story I'd venture to say it
Kinda reinforces the necessity of doing some pre heating while welding.

I'm not seeing a massive crack in that picture. I can see the weld seem of a prior repair, and the seem that appears to be from OEM where the frame transitions, but not any massive crack. As to pre-heat, if it is 50KSI steel or higher, that seems prudent, but I can't find any indication that 50KSI steel was used prior to 2019 on the Dodge/Ram trucks. I'm pretty sure we are looking at standard 36KSI steel on this frame.

If you have other information do let everyone know.

 

[DavidC]

I'm not seeing a massive crack in that picture. I can see the weld seem of a prior repair, and the seem that appears to be from OEM where the frame transitions, but not any massive crack. As to pre-heat, if it is 50KSI steel or higher, that seems prudent, but I can't find any indication that 50KSI steel was used prior to 2019 on the Dodge/Ram trucks. I'm pretty sure we are looking at standard 36KSI steel on this frame.

If you have other information do let everyone know.

I believe JR is referring to this

 

[JR]

There are several reasons why preheating is necessary beyond tensile strength. We do R Stamp repairs (Boilermakers) - the list is long why pre and post heat is done during certain repairs. But the ones that pertain to this specific job. High carbon steel as a base metal Being welded and varying thickness and type of steel being welded. Both cause large Delta's in the rate of heating and cooling from the weld which causes Shrinkage. Preheating brings both materials up to temp at a more controlled rate and minimizes the delta between the temperature of the weld and steel that would otherwise be at ambient temperature. It's the quick and uneven cooling of two dissimilar metals, plus the tensile strength that causes Shrinkage, and sometimes, cracks.

I don't have knowledge welding vehicle frames specifically but I'd wager the procedures aren't much different. We are required to follow asme procedures when doing R Stamp work, they exist for a reason. That being said I'm sure most people just glue it up with no ill effects....at least none that they know of

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

High carbon steel as a base metal Being welded and varying thickness and type of steel being welded. Both cause large Delta's in the rate of heating and cooling from the weld which causes Shrinkage. Preheating brings both materials up to temp at a more controlled rate and minimizes the delta between the temperature of the weld and steel that would otherwise be at ambient temperature. It's the quick and uneven cooling of two dissimilar metals, plus the tensile strength that causes Shrinkage, and sometimes, cracks.

I'm certainly not a metallurgist but from what I've been able to determine is that the 03 frame is not high strength steel, plus the thickness of the frame area to be repaired is .118 and my repair tubing is .120. Not certain but I don't think shrinkage/cracking due to dissimilar metals/thicknesses will be an issue.

 

[Ozymandias]

That repair looks... um... bad.

Thats a very kind speak. It is plain horrible, like made in some third world country. They didn't even clean the surface from rust and everything else prior to welding, the welds are so porous that i hopefully never meet the vehicle in real life!
That example of a repair is the perfect example for a "don't do it like this"!
That wasn't a welder doing this - maybe a barber or a psychologist but not a welder.

 

[jgillott]

Thats a very kind speak. It is plain horrible, like made in some third world country. They didn't even clean the surface from rust and everything else prior to welding, the welds are so porous that i hopefully never meet the vehicle in real life!
That example of a repair is the perfect example for a "don't do it like this"!
That wasn't a welder doing this - maybe a barber or a psychologist but not a welder.

Don't worry, it isn't going to pass safety inspection.

 

[Ozymandias]

Don't worry, it isn't going to pass safety inspection.

Thanks! Now i can sleep better tonight.

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

Here's the piece from earlier all finished and test fit.

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

This is the passenger side piece:

And test fit:

 

[Learjet]

that look nice!!

 

[Ozymandias]

Looks good, now you need to cut out the frame and clean away all paint, rust and debris down to the bare metal to weld properly.

If these are the corners that do not fit, you could cut them like I show on the picture with the white line, then hammer them on end weld the gap.

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

Looks good, now you need to cut out the frame and clean away all paint, rust and debris down to the bare metal to weld properly.

That’s the next step. Heavy rains predicted for tomorrow into Saturday will set me back a couple of days.

If these are the corners that do not fit, you could cut them like I show on the picture with the white line, then hammer them on end weld the gap.

I think I’ll just cut straight in the corner, wrap the ends around on each other, and then weld them.

 

[seafish]

MarkEagle...looking REALLY good !!!
You might need to one up a frame repair shop for Rams !!!

 

[MichaelOverfield]

There are several reasons why preheating is necessary beyond tensile strength. We do R Stamp repairs (Boilermakers) - the list is long why pre and post heat is done during certain repairs. But the ones that pertain to this specific job. High carbon steel as a base metal Being welded and varying thickness and type of steel being welded. Both cause large Delta's in the rate of heating and cooling from the weld which causes Shrinkage. Preheating brings both materials up to temp at a more controlled rate and minimizes the delta between the temperature of the weld and steel that would otherwise be at ambient temperature. It's the quick and uneven cooling of two dissimilar metals, plus the tensile strength that causes Shrinkage, and sometimes, cracks.

I don't have knowledge welding vehicle frames specifically but I'd wager the procedures aren't much different. We are required to follow asme procedures when doing R Stamp work, they exist for a reason. That being said I'm sure most people just glue it up with no ill effects....at least none that they know of

Ahh, yes.. ASME boiler codes do in fact exist for a reason.. many boiler explosions and loss of life preceeded these codes and proceedures.

I'm a Mechanical Engineer, and I work in a Navy Shipyard. I'm not specifically a weld engineer, but do some welding and review some specifications from time to time. I can say with certainty that when you get high grades of steel, in particular 80KSI steel, you absolutly are correct, a proper pre-heat, and slow cooldown are critical, and even then the inspections for cracks and weld viods are still required. That said, I looked to find type of steel on this frame. All I could find was marketing for the 2019 Ram that had new 50KSI steel in it's frame.. which to me implies regular common 36KSI steel in the prior frames, and when we deal with 36KSI steel, we don't have the extensive pre-heat and cooldown requirments, as it's just not susceptable to the cracking that is a challenging thing with the higher strength steels. I would venture to say that any repair work on a 2019 or newer Ram with the 50KSI steel is going to be expensive, and will require special weld techniques and inspections..

With the 2003, I think he'll be just fine without any extensive pre-heat or slow cooldown.

 

[GCroyle]

MichaelOverfield,

Avitar, you're setup at a high power match?

Gary