Observations with synthetic oil

[AH64ID]

Let me start off by saying this is it intended to be an oil war, simply observations I’ve made over the last few years.

I’ve never not ran synthetic, aside from breakin, in any of my vehicles or toys. It’s how I was raised and what I’ve known. So that made for a harder real world comparison to conventional oils.

Over the last 8 years I’ve bought 2 Honda ATV’s and 2 vehicles all used with plenty of miles and years on them, but nothing appeared to have been abused.

The ATV’s (06 Recon 250, 04 Rancher 350) both exhibited shifting issues at first. The 06 had unknown miles but the 04 was 10 years old with ~500 miles. They would flash the shifter indicator with error codes and stop shifting on longer rides. All the forms suggested new range sensors, but they weren’t cheap so I just changed the oil and drove them for a summer and changed it again. No more shifter issues, and haven’t been for years on the recommended 2 year OCI.

In 2012 I bought an 02 2.0 Jetta with around 95K miles. Previous owner sent all maintenance record and it had not been abused. It would burn 1-1.5 quarts every 10K miles, not bad but still had to be monitored. After 20-30K miles it quit burning any oil. Rings must have gotten cleaned with the oil I was using and stopped letting oil by.

In 2018 I bought a 05 TJ with a 4.0L with 125K. It had the usual 4.0 leaks and burned a little oil, nothing crazy. I couldn’t really use 5th or 6th below 2000 rpms, but I assumed that was the 3.07 gears and 31’s. It came with service records and had been maintained regularly. In less than 2 years and 8K miles on synthetic it’s leaks are nearly gone and it doesn’t burn any oil. I’m now able to use 5/6 at low rpms as it’s smoother and has power. All I’ve done is clean the outside of the motor, fix some cooling system leaks, and run synthetic... a cheaper group III even.

So from my perspective I’ve done nothing to correct the issues aside from switching to better oil. It’s got me sold on spending a little more money on my oil, but then again my OCI’s can be increased so at the end of the day it’s not really more money and it’s less time.

Anybody else have similar stories?


Again not trying to start an oil war, which is why I’ve left the brand out. Just sharing my experiences.

 

[Cummins12V98]

"Let me start off by saying this is it intended to be an oil war" Got a chuckle from me!!!

Please do tell what Synthetic oils you are using.

 

[JR]

I've definitely noticed a difference in performance with the DCT of the Honda atvs. When my 05 Rincon was new Honda's spec was GN4 10w40 which is conventional. Some years later they changed the viscosity to 10w30 so I ran that a few years. One day when picking up oil for my annual change they were out of my normal flavor and only had the Honda HP4S(full synthetic) 10w30. Huge difference in price - roughly $12/quart vs $8-9. Long story short, I didn't notice any difference until winter. Previously in cold ambient temperatures I would have to let the engine warm up a few minutes prior to riding. The colder the temps the longer the warm up time. If I left too soon the DCT would just slip - it had done this since new. The HP4S literally cut my warm up times in half. I've been running it ever since.

Aside from that I really just run what's recommended and change at OEM recommended intervals. Some of my vehicles recommend conventional and others synthetic. I've got a 53 year old Land Cruiser that's never seen anything more than cheap conventional oil for at least the last 30 years, probably longer given the time frame. It purrs like a kitten and starts well in cold weather.
I've also got close to 2000 hrs on my zero turn with conventional 10w30. A Briggs and Stratton no less

I think probably the biggest factor is routine maintenance. In your examples, previous maintenance history is key. I know some people that have no clue what a service manual is or that anything needs changed aside from engine oil. I've seen fuel filters plugged solid. I know a guy that run his zero turn so long on the OE hydraulic oil the filter rusted through and dumped the oil as he was mowing grass. The filter was placed down low under the chassis and the grass and moisture eventually killed it. He didn't even know there was a filter down there!

I could go on and I'm sure everyone has their own stories like this.

Where I'm going is, it is hard to dispute the fact that synthetic has its advantages at extreme ends of the operating range. But assuming one follows the recommended intervals, viscosity, AND oil type you can't go wrong.

 

[AH64ID]

Where I'm going is, it is hard to dispute the fact that synthetic has its advantages at extreme ends of the operating range. But assuming one follows the recommended intervals, viscosity, AND oil type you can't go wrong.

I generally agree with this 110%. I am a big synthetic fan for the extremes, and not the daily use. That being said the used vehicles both came with service records and both had regular and proper maintenance, according to the records. Both have had distinct improvements with my choice of oils, which really surprised me.

No records with the ATV’s so it harder to quantify the improvements I’ve seen.

I’ll be the first to admit there probably isn’t a need for the “boutique” oils I run, but I just can’t help myself. But honestly I do think that they they are what caused improvements on my used rigs.

It’s great to hear other experiences too.

 

[JR]

I
I’ll be the first to admit there probably isn’t a need for the “boutique” oils I run, but I just can’t help myself. But honestly I do think that they they are what caused improvements on my used rigs.

.

I ran Schaeffer's in my vehicles for several years due to some preferred pricing I could get through my cousin. He was on an oil maintenance program through them with all of his farm equipment using oil analysis as the metric to change rather than time/hours. Financially it worked well for him. But over the years as they've been expanding the farm and updating equipment he's got a lot of new rigs with emissions hardware and had to go back to the OEM recommendations for warranty purposes. Eventually he gave up the program and went back to conventional oil due to costs.

I've got UOA on both Schaeffer's 15w40 and Mobil Delvac 1300 and they are very comparable. That may be different if I lived somewhere with more extreme temps. We only get a handful of below zero days a year here and I am big on plugging in if I am going to be running my truck.

I did recently switch to the Delvac Extreme 15w40, a synthetic blend last year on my annual oil change.
With Mobil rebates and sale prices it can be had at a competitive price. It'll be interesting to compare the results between it, the 1300, and the Schaeffer's. I'll be changing the oil in 4-6 weeks.

 

[Mikey-KE7LBB]

The ONLY reason I run 5W/40 synthetic is due to the one time I saw the "check gauges" light come on...

Back in '09 or so, I was involved in the oil war thing when CJ4 replaced CI+4... I went to extremes to get a bucket of the John Deere oil or CAT DEO 15W/40 with the CI rating...

-30* temps and realizing that my engine didn't have enough oil pressure to make the switch happy for 30 seconds was enough for me!!

5W/40 year round for the '09 and never seen the light again!!! 15W/40 for the '92 since she gets to hibernate for winter.

 

[AH64ID]

The ONLY reason I run 5W/40 synthetic is due to the one time I saw the "check gauges" light come on...

Back in '09 or so, I was involved in the oil war thing when CJ4 replaced CI+4... I went to extremes to get a bucket of the John Deere oil or CAT DEO 15W/40 with the CI rating...

-30* temps and realizing that my engine didn't have enough oil pressure to make the switch happy for 30 seconds was enough for me!!

5W/40 year round for the '09 and never seen the light again!!! 15W/40 for the '92 since she gets to hibernate for winter.

I a freezer test a few year ago with 15w-40 full synthetic and 15w-40 dino. Freezer was -10°F and it was a remarkable difference. I wouldn’t want to try to start a motor that cold with standard 15w-40.

I think I lost the video when my photo bucket account was deleted, but that was some thick oil. The synthetic poured just fine.

 

[Ozymandias]

A little bit of background info on synth oils.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil

Since then API has removed all references to Synthetic in their documentation regarding standards. "Full synthetic" is a marketing term and is not a measurable quality.

Thats cool, its a marketing term.....

 

[AH64ID]

Yeah it’s a broad description these days since Group III can be called synthetic and it doesn’t have to have a lot to market it that way. Many of the synthetic oils sold in the US cannot be sold as synthetic in other countries from what I’ve read.

I use Group IV synthetics in my truck and wife’s 4Runner and Group III in the TJ.

I generally refer to Group IV synthetics as a full synthetic and Group III as Group III.

Bottom line is not all synthetics are created equal.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_oil

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/29113/base-oil-groups

 

[Ozymandias]

Is this group declared on the Label of the bottle or just in the spec sheet?

 

[AH64ID]

Is this group declared on the Label of the bottle or just in the spec sheet?

It generally takes more research and phone calls to find out.

 

[NIsaacs]

I use Mobil 1 on my quads, '03 Rancher and '04 Foreman. When I work on a customers quad that's one of the first things I do, is change the oil to Mobil. I also use the synthetic blend in the Escape. Everything else gets conventional.

My '91 D-250 has used oil from day one, 331k miles, now I am thinking....

 

[Killer223]

I've been though this battle with myself over the years.
I'm as cheep as they come, but i will spend money on oils and what not if it's a proven benefit.
my 04 has 300K. i ran Dino Valvoline 15/40 from 109K-201K used oil reports form Blackstone every other oil change. i ran synthetic from 201-250K with reports every other oil change. and there is NO real difference in the reports in terms of wear metals. soot, etc. with the synthetics being Valvoline 5/40 or rotella T6. My truck has never burned any oil. Now it's oil diet is what ever is on sale, from tractor supply Travellers to Valvoline, to Mobil. i always change between 7500-10K miles.

As for my cars, race bikes, sport UTV's etc.
my wife's 12 civic gets supertech 5/30 synthetic, it burns 1 qt per 5K miles. oil brand hasn't changed this consumption.
i run Valvoline 10/40 ATV/UTV oil in my race bike crf450 my Talon my pioneer, I believe its a Dino oil. the talon and pioneer go 2K miles on the oil and the bike is changed every 10is hours.

I run Valvoline synthetic in my accord as it's a TGI engine and i'm not really sure the best oil for it. so i stuck with my tried and true brand. This one i would get a better oil if i knew of one.
the ranger and Toyota both get Valvoline 5/30 synpower. I was able to capitalize on a sale Walmart had for 3- 5qt jugs for 26$ i stocked up. when that supply is out i'll likely switch to supertech 5/30 synthetic.

In the end i have not had synthetic do any better or worse then the Dino oils. I guess maybe i havent had an issue where i think synthetic would fix and issue. If anyone thinks a particular oil and procedure would help my wifes civic not bun oil i'm all ears. it has 180K and has burned oil from day one.

 

[DonFitzwater]

I run synthetic T6 in the winter in my 12 valve and it guzzles it’s like a drunken sailor....leaks mildly at every seal and I’m followed by a blue haze during the COLD snaps we have. Uses a quart a week. I run valvoline 15w40 premium blue in the summer and the engine dries up and consumes no oil. My last three 12 valves have experienced the same behavior.

 

[DonFitzwater]

I've been though this battle with myself over the years.
I'm as cheep as they come, but i will spend money on oils and what not if it's a proven benefit.
my 04 has 300K. i ran Dino Valvoline 15/40 from 109K-201K used oil reports form Blackstone every other oil change. i ran synthetic from 201-250K with reports every other oil change. and there is NO real difference in the reports in terms of wear metals. soot, etc. with the synthetics being Valvoline 5/40 or rotella T6. My truck has never burned any oil. Now it's oil diet is what ever is on sale, from tractor supply Travellers to Valvoline, to Mobil. i always change between 7500-10K miles.

As for my cars, race bikes, sport UTV's etc.
my wife's 12 civic gets supertech 5/30 synthetic, it burns 1 qt per 5K miles. oil brand hasn't changed this consumption.
i run Valvoline 10/40 ATV/UTV oil in my race bike crf450 my Talon my pioneer, I believe its a Dino oil. the talon and pioneer go 2K miles on the oil and the bike is changed every 10is hours.

I run Valvoline synthetic in my accord as it's a TGI engine and i'm not really sure the best oil for it. so i stuck with my tried and true brand. This one i would get a better oil if i knew of one.
the ranger and Toyota both get Valvoline 5/30 synpower. I was able to capitalize on a sale Walmart had for 3- 5qt jugs for 26$ i stocked up. when that supply is out i'll likely switch to supertech 5/30 synthetic.

In the end i have not had synthetic do any better or worse then the Dino oils. I guess maybe i havent had an issue where i think synthetic would fix and issue. If anyone thinks a particular oil and procedure would help my wifes civic not bun oil i'm all ears. it has 180K and has burned oil from day one.

One of my coworkers has a Honda CRV that began consuming oil soon after purchase. Dealership was no help. We tore the engine down at 26k miles and found #2 and #3 piston ring end gaps all aligned. Reinstalled with same rings and new gaskets/seals and she doesn’t leak a drop and is somewhere around 135k miles now. Been running Honda Marine FCW rated 5w30 since repair.

 

[gsbrockman]

After reading some of the posts beginning at post #8 and afterwards in this thread

https://www.turbodieselregister.com...rship-service-experience.270080/#post-2653130

I can say I was somewhat amazed / shocked at what FCA states as “normal” oil consumption.

With that being said....I have been running synthetic oil in my vehicles for at least 15 to 20 years, based on vehicles I recall owning and maintaining with synthetics.

I have bought several brand new vehicles, and a few used vehicles, even some rebuildable wrecks for my commuting days when I drove 114 miles round trip everyday to S&S Tire in Lexington, KY.

In any event.....I can only recall one car that consumed oil fairly heavily, and it was a 2004 Dodge Stratus SXT with 2.4L four cylinder. None of the other vehicles have used oil that amounted to anything more than .5 quarts between changes, and its the OCD in me that wants to keep the oil level in everything at the upper end of the “FULL” mark on my dipsticks. With that being said......most of the OCI’s were generally no less than 6,000 miles and most to 7,000 to 7,200 miles or so. Vehicles in my garage now include a 2013 Dodge Dart SE with 2.0L, 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited with 3.6L, and a 2018 Dodge Challenger T/A with 5.7L.

I’ve ran 5W40 Rotella early on in my RAM trucks beginning with ownership of my 2007.5 RAM 3500. Later, I switched to Delo 400 XSP 5W40 as availability of the Rotella became hit and miss at Walmart, plus I did notice oil consumption was a little less compared to the Rotella. Now.....Delo is hard to find, so I simply say screw it and get my Delo delivered to my door from Amazon.

And yes.....my 261k mile CTD in my 2018 RAM 4500 will consume around 1 quart during a 13k to 15k OCI. Again.....the OCD in me simply makes me check it and constantly keep it at the upper end of the crosshatched area. It is basically bone dry with no oil leaks, but I do see a minute amount of oil seepage around the pan. It might could even be fixed by snugging up the oil pan bolts.

Summary.......is the use of synthetic oils in my fleet over the years responsible for the basically non-existent oil consumption and bone dry engines? Can’t say 100% for sure......but it’s entirely possible.

For those of you interested......I’ve ran Castrol oil, conventional in nature early in my life and stuck with Castrol synthetics over the last several years. About the only vehicle I didn’t use Castrol in was my 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD, and it spec’ed Mobil 0W40, but I later ran Rotella 5W40.
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[BLNRAY]

03 , 3500 479k on Mobil 1 5W-40 never added oil between changes change every 10k

 

[Learjet]

"Let me start off by saying this is it intended to be an oil war" Got a chuckle from me!!!

Please do tell what Synthetic oils you are using.

That is how you start the "oil war"

 

[gsbrockman]

03 , 3500 479k on Mobil 1 5W-40 never added oil between changes change every 10k

You must not be working it very hard.

 

[Mikey-KE7LBB]

I a freezer test a few year ago with 15w-40 full synthetic and 15w-40 dino. Freezer was -10°F and it was a remarkable difference. I wouldn’t want to try to start a motor that cold with standard 15w-40.

I think I lost the video when my photo bucket account was deleted, but that was some thick oil. The synthetic poured just fine.

I had to add a gallon of oil to my '00 Freightliner when it was around -30* outside... The Delo 15W40 was pouring out of the jug like molasses and I even had to hop back into my pickup to warm my fingers while the funnel was draining!! Several minutes to add a gallon got me thinking.

The worst part is the old Detroit 60 Series cracks off at high idle, and I'm pretty sure the oil filter bypass is open for quite a while when its that cold!!!