Good news Cp4 to Cp3

[JR]

This is another money-grab lawsuit with little real grounding. Ford "knew" the CP4 would fail? Hmm. Did GM know it would fail too? What about the various Euro-diesels from VAG group being sold in the US for some years? Were they all failing too?

Every manufacturer you just listed has all failed in varying degrees. Everytime they do it's a substantial repair bill. VW/Audi are the worst offenders as far as leaving the customer hang. Even when under warranty.

The average mileage of the 33 plaintiffs trucks that are named in the lawsuit was under 60k miles. Think that's acceptable?

I'm not a fan of class action lawsuits. I don't and will never participate in them because the real victim(s) still end up losing out. But that doesn't mean I don't bury my head in the sand just because "it hasn't happened to me".

 

[JR]

JR, question?
Do you store your fuel above ground or in the ground?

The reason I ask is when Cat changed from pre-combustion chambers diesel engines to direct injected engine designs. The corporation had a rash of injector failures from water in the fuel. This was around the mid 70's if I remember correctly. Cat had to provide water separators in the fuel system as standard and retro fit them to machines that had the DI engines.

Cat figured out if you store your fuel above ground. The owner would run the risk of increase water infusion into your diesel fuel as temperature changes in the climate. The temperature change will produce water in above ground storage fuel tanks over a period of time.

So, my question is where is your water separator placed? Is it placed in line before you fuel your vehicles or is it place before the fuel enters your storage tank.

It is above ground but out of the sunlight. My filtration system is in between my tank and the nozzle, but I also can recirculate the entire tank through the filters. Which I do if the fuel has been sitting for more than a week.

 

[Jim W]

Yes. They have a ton of failures of the CP4.1.

If you don’t know, don’t argue.

Really? Were are you getting your data from on the CP4.1 failure rate for VW of A. An have you done and diagnostic failure analyses on these failed fuel pumps to determine cause?

 

[Bug Out]

I believe there is a Law firm doing a class action suit about the CP4. Maybe that was the pressure needed to get a quick good fix? Bosch is probably named on it too.

 

[sag2]

Law firms look for potential victims to target class action suits for one reason, to make money. They could care less about any customer.

 

[TFucili]

Whether they have merit or not, how many class actions are there for CP3 pumps? They have to smell blood in the water to initiate all that BS, not some one-off failure. Going to the CP4 was a mistake.

 

[sag2]

Regardless, a class action does very little to benefit the customer.

 

[TFucili]

Regardless, a class action does very little to benefit the customer.

No question about that. But the punitive aspect has the possibility to cause the manufacturer to straighten up and fly right for future customers.

 

[Regcabguy]

Law firms look for potential victims to target class action suits for one reason, to make money. They could care less about any customer.

Yep. Malicious lawsuits are ruining this country among other things. We get bombarded by ads from law firms. "Did you hook your foot on a step leading to a business? Call us right now. Operators are ready to assist you". Couldn't have been your lazy ass dragging your foot? I have a license frame that reads "Visualize personal responsibility" Yeah,sometimes it is your fault.
I digressed. Back to your guys Hope this gets resolved.

 

[Tuesdak]

Yep. Malicious lawsuits are ruining this country among other things. We get bombarded by ads from law firms. "Did you hook your foot on a step leading to a business? Call us right now. Operators are ready to assist you". Couldn't have been your lazy ass dragging your foot? I have a license frame that reads "Visualize personal responsibility" Yeah,sometimes it is your fault.
I digressed. Back to your guys Hope this gets resolved.

Just saying, but, you need to ease up on the Kool-Aid the corporations have spoon fed us so they don't have to fix their screw ups, can continue producing their screw ups, and don't have to pay for their cost cutting stupidity: YOU DO. Sometimes paying with one's life. (GM ignition switch, Takata Airbag Bombs, V06 RAM recall...)

Did the arrogant business ignore 700 other people who also tripped on an unsafe step? I remind people to take a close look as the disinformation campaign and then re-consider their thoughts on lawsuits. I got no use for coffee served at the near boiling point: where it's so hot one can test a coolant thermostat opening in... Neither did over 700 others including children.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/12/16/13971482/mcdonalds-coffee-lawsuit-stella-liebeck

As Conover put it, “This was an incredibly rare case where a working-class victim actually beat a huge team of corporate lawyers and made the world a better place.”
So how did the public’s view of this case get so warped? According to Conover, lawyers spent years running a disinformation campaign, which much of the media bought into, holding up the McDonald’s coffee lawsuit as an example of a supposed epidemic of frivolous lawsuits.


My favorite useless class action is for RV refrigerators that fail in a fireball ... One, Norcold, was settled for money and longer warranty while ignoring the actual problem, and the other OEM, Dometic, with the same problem's lawsuit was thrown out on a technicality. RV's still burn down from fridge boiler overheating and both OEM's refuse to license a known fix.

 

[R.Taylor]

Yep. Malicious lawsuits are ruining this country among other things. We get bombarded by ads from law firms. "Did you hook your foot on a step leading to a business? Call us right now. Operators are ready to assist you". Couldn't have been your lazy ass dragging your foot? I have a license frame that reads "Visualize personal responsibility" Yeah,sometimes it is your fault.
I digressed. Back to your guys Hope this gets resolved.

Hey Reg... You're in the wrong forum buddy, Just kidding . You got the same rig still??? With the mirror I sent you?? If so... Cool beans man, My 06 is gone (I miss it).

As for this CP4.2 / Cummins pot of BS soup all I know is I have 8/125 with a $200 deductible. If it does ever fail I guess I'll get the revised pump under warranty. If I decide to keep the truck and invest in a Carli set up, wheels, tires and a front bumper then perhaps I'd go with a CP3 conversion..... But that would be in a few years. I just turned 10,668 on the truck... Optilube XPD at every fill-up from one of 2 Chevron stations I visit. Runs like a top, After the recent dealer engine flash I've gained about 1.6mpg hand calculated.

I don't even think of the pump... It's great truck and I hope it holds up.

 

[Bug Out]

Material Cost Management=MCM=Make Customers Mad. Cummins is not a bunch of boy scouts, or some benevolent organization. They are a typical corporation, answering to shareholders on a quarterly basis seeking to maximize profits. They are perfectly capable of penny-pinching themselves into trouble like so many corporations. I believe that 1,000%.

And, YES, it can cost them more in the long run. Never stopped companies before.

To my surprise, Cummins has nothing to do with the warranty. According to the email I got from Cummins about the CP4, they said its Chryslers issue. They sell the motor to Chrysler and I'm guessing Chrysler decides what externals go on it...?

 

[Bug Out]

At the end of the day, I didn't pay 60K for a truck that I have to worry about the injector pump exploding and the Mother company telling me because there is metal fragments in the fuel system, I have to pay 10K. I love the truck, but if that happens, I'm stripping my stuff out of it, and the dealer and finance company can have coffee over it. I'll be done with Diesels, RV's and the bunch. All I want is a reliable tow vehicle.

 

[sag2]

Change the filters at least as often as required and save the receipt.

 

[sag2]

At the end of the day, I didn't pay 60K for a truck that I have to worry about the injector pump exploding and the Mother company telling me because there is metal fragments in the fuel system, I have to pay 10K. I love the truck, but if that happens, I'm stripping my stuff out of it, and the dealer and finance company can have coffee over it. I'll be done with Diesels, RV's and the bunch. All I want is a reliable tow vehicle.

My wife said she was going to quit driving when gas hit $1.75 a gallon. She is still driving.

 

[Bug Out]

I said the same thing about cigarettes when they hit 2.00 a pack...Gave in at 2.50 a pack...

 

[lpennock]

I said the same thing about cigarettes when they hit 2.00 a pack...Gave in at 2.50 a pack...

I quit at $3.50 a carton.
(1978 Commissary prices)

 

[TFucili]

To my surprise, Cummins has nothing to do with the warranty. According to the email I got from Cummins about the CP4, they said its Chryslers issue. They sell the motor to Chrysler and I'm guessing Chrysler decides what externals go on it...?

Except Wayne posted a photo of an industrial 6.7 with a CP4, so it would appear that they chose the CP4. I know when I spoke to a few Cummins reps at a trade show just as the '19s were bring introduced, one had no idea what pump it was, one was tight lipped, but made it clear he was concerned, and one, whose daily driver is a Second Gen, was quite frank in his disapproval of the CP4, and he was blunt about his belief it was a bean-counter decision.

 

[AEdelheit]

Im guessing the same people paranoid there truck is going to explode after reading forums are the same ones that say to turn of the news and suddenly all the world problems disappear. If you want to feel all warm and fuzzy about any vehicle from any year dont do any research, dont read any fourms and its will likely be ok but to be an informed purchaser comes with the side effect of knowing all potential issues no matter how few it will truly effect.

 

[Jim W]

Except Wayne posted a photo of an industrial 6.7 with a CP4, so it would appear that they chose the CP4. I know when I spoke to a few Cummins reps at a trade show just as the '19s were bring introduced, one had no idea what pump it was, one was tight lipped, but made it clear he was concerned, and one, whose daily driver is a Second Gen, was quite frank in his disapproval of the CP4, and he was blunt about his belief it was a bean-counter decision.

I disagree that it was solely a bean counter decision!

To me, it was a design decision by the fuel system engineers for Cummins! I believe that the CP3 fuel pump as designed for current production use would not meet the fuel pressure requirements when the new 6.7L HO Cummins was introduced with all of the design changes in 2019. This is why there is a CP4 fuel pump that produces higher fuel pressure as compared to the older CP3 fuel pump design. As a by product, which all manufactures do is to redesign a component for cost reduction since the profit margins are low when they sell this finish component to a higher Tier manufacture of a finish product. Say an engine and or a transmission or some other item. Also a "B10" life is applied to the engine, which allows a component to fail before it reaches maturity. So, say Cummins builds 100,000 engines a year for world wide production that would mean 10% of the engines could experience a failure of some type.

Now you also need to realize that BOSCH is a foreign corporation and I believe the design team is in Europe! also. So, all preproduction testing of the CP4 was done in Europe using European materials and vehicles for their tests. Another issue that I have experience with foreign design components; is the application engineers first response when an item fails when using this item in the "US" is "Will It Does Not Fail In Europe". So, the corporations in the "US" need to convince them that there is a deign issue with their component when used in the "US."

Just Saying.