Good news Cp4 to Cp3

[Bug Out]

I would like to see how a CP4 piston and roller can turn in the bore. I would have to say it's impossible based on the load on the roller and piston.
Look at Issue 106, page 110 to see how wide the roller is.

Just repeating what the guy was saying and showed by hand. I don't have any idea about the internals. He did show a cam lobe that looked pretty scarred up. Maybe he's just selling their product etc.

 

[Bug Out]

Just repeating what the guy was saying and showed by hand. I don't have any idea about the internals. He did show a cam lobe that looked pretty scarred up. Maybe he's just selling their product etc.

sag2, what is it internally that causes all the metal to destroy the injectors and fuel system?

 

[sag2]

The only failed pump I have seen had scoring on the rollers. Anything inside the "crankcase" of either a CP3 or CP4 will end up going through the pump and into the rest of the fuel system.

 

[Bug Out]

Here's the video where he shows the parts that caused the failure.

 

[nukegm]

Here's the video where he shows the parts that caused the failure.

thanks for posting bugout. good video. when i buy another ram, it will be cp3 for sure. ram took the cheap way out. pretty black and white after viewing the video. cheers! happy new year to all

 

[seafish]

Thanks for posting that video...makes me LOVE my 2005 even more !!!

 

[Tuesdak]

Camp Verde hill s/b on I17 is a long pull and you will routinely see pickups on the side of the road ON FIRE and semi's overheating in summertime.

Fixed it for you. The extreme heat and l o n g high % grades in AZ is a special that most never see or get, period. It's literally uphill both ways as it's not one long grade but a bunch of grades in between the long grade going up and down. 30 degrees hotter than most see with dry air... We can talk about turbo boost creep with altitude. Overheating out here often becomes a vehicle fire. A concrete truck spit out a driveshaft and started one of the BIG fires near the 4 Peaks on Hwy 87 last year.

IMO They picked a "easy" route in AZ for the "J" pickup towing tests.

My 2003 I had to watch the EGT's on grades as the ECT would quickly climb if I didn't limit the EGT. I believe the fan belt was it it's limit and slipping as the compressor cycling would result in a sound change (slower) from the fan. IMO it's why the Duramax has a separate dedicated belt for the cooling fan now.

 

[Tuesdak]

I would like to see how a CP4 piston and roller can turn in the bore. I would have to say it's impossible based on the load on the roller and piston.
Look at Issue 106, page 110 to see how wide the roller is.

Sci-Fi has to be plausible: The Truth does not. Lots of carnage pictures showing a sideways roller. Roller camshafts have had pinned lifters like since they came on the scene. So Bosch maybe skipped a step.

Do you know if the replacement injectors used for CP4 warranty repairs are "New" or rebuilt?

 

[Elsbury]

oh Boy....I just had to watch that video....

 

[DonFitzwater]

oh Boy....I just had to watch that video....

Don't be scared little buddy! I'm scared enough for both of us and I'm in the middle of nowhere just waiting for my CP4 to roach! Heading to the Yukon river next week......sure hope I make it back!

 

[endoscott]

Here's the video where he shows the parts that caused the failure.

Thank you for posting that clip! Very interesting. I love that benchtop microscope too!

 

[sag2]

Sci-Fi has to be plausible: The Truth does not. Lots of carnage pictures showing a sideways roller. Roller camshafts have had pinned lifters like since they came on the scene. So Bosch maybe skipped a step.

Do you know if the replacement injectors used for CP4 warranty repairs are "New" or rebuilt?

The piston can only turn in the bore after the roller starts to come apart and build up metal on one end of the roller, allowing one end of the roller to rotate the piston. If the roller is not damaged first there is no way for it to rotate the piston. I have to believe the rotation is the result of the initial failure, not the cause.
Injectors can be new or reman. Most of the time they are going to be reman on warranty if they are available. There is a $6k difference in price between new and reman so it would seem obvious that they are going to require reman.

 

[UglyViking]

The piston can only turn in the bore after the roller starts to come apart and build up metal on one end of the roller, allowing one end of the roller to rotate the piston. If the roller is not damaged first there is no way for it to rotate the piston. I have to believe the rotation is the result of the initial failure, not the cause.
Injectors can be new or reman. Most of the time they are going to be reman on warranty if they are available. There is a $6k difference in price between new and reman so it would seem obvious that they are going to require reman.

Regardless of if the roller fails first then causes it to rotate or it starts to rotate and then causes failure the issue remains. As was mentioned earlier there is a reason that pistons are keyed. I've heard there is a patent for a keyed piston and that is why Bosch decided not to use it. I've been unable to find that patent so I don't know if it's true or not but either way I wouldn't be surprised as it wasn't included due to a cost cutting measure. If it were keyed, even if the roller somehow failed it would seem that it would be easier to screen out the filings or that it would cause issue with injector damage but less likely to be catastrophic.

I also haven't seen a design where force is being applied to the cam from 2 directions set at roughly 45° as opposed to opposite each other. Look at the design of the CP3 and notice that the 3 pistons are set so they are all opposing each other. How much impact that has I'm not sure but I've never seen that before.

 

[Bug Out]

Don't be scared little buddy! I'm scared enough for both of us and I'm in the middle of nowhere just waiting for my CP4 to roach! Heading to the Yukon river next week......sure hope I make it back!

I'm not so concerned about the middle of nowhere as I am like the last time a CTD left me stranded in the desert on the first day of my 2 week vacation several years back. Those "recalled water pumps' went out with 5th wheel attached in BFE,... It was then that I learned that Goodsam roadside assistance (after having them for 17 years and never needing them) was not as good as old SAM said. They would tow the truck, but not the trailer........Ok....Then why did I pay for your RV coverage if I have to leave my 5th wheel on the side of the road.

Turns out the "local" tow guy was also the tire repair shop, and had a "Hills Have Eyes" abandoned RV park near his shop...It was 1/2 mile away. Filled the radiator with water, towed the 5th to the abandoned RV park,(left the wife and dog with the RV and a assortment of arms to defeat the red Army if needed) then he towed the truck to a Chrysler dealer who had to wait for parts for 4 days...Rented a car, got the wife/dog and arms went home.

Got a friend to help tow the 5th back home, and a week and half later picked up the truck....

But Murphy being who he is will do the same with the CP4 when its RIP day comes....I'll be halfway to S/Dakota and it will puke on a two lane highway with no shoulder....LOL

 

[Ozymandias]

I'm not so concerned about the middle of nowhere as I am like the last time a CTD left me stranded in the desert on the first day of my 2 week vacation several years back. Those "recalled water pumps' went out with 5th wheel attached in BFE,... It was then that I learned that Goodsam roadside assistance (after having them for 17 years and never needing them) was not as good as old SAM said. They would tow the truck, but not the trailer........Ok....Then why did I pay for your RV coverage if I have to leave my 5th wheel on the side of the road.

Turns out the "local" tow guy was also the tire repair shop, and had a "Hills Have Eyes" abandoned RV park near his shop...It was 1/2 mile away. Filled the radiator with water, towed the 5th to the abandoned RV park,(left the wife and dog with the RV and a assortment of arms to defeat the red Army if needed) then he towed the truck to a Chrysler dealer who had to wait for parts for 4 days...Rented a car, got the wife/dog and arms went home.

Got a friend to help tow the 5th back home, and a week and half later picked up the truck....

But Murphy being who he is will do the same with the CP4 when its RIP day comes....I'll be halfway to S/Dakota and it will puke on a two lane highway with no shoulder....LOL

If you are concerned you better install a CP3 conversion kit.
Goes for around 2700$ all in all.

 

[SnoKing]

Regardless of if the roller fails first then causes it to rotate or it starts to rotate and then causes failure the issue remains. As was mentioned earlier there is a reason that pistons are keyed. I've heard there is a patent for a keyed piston and that is why Bosch decided not to use it. I've been unable to find that patent so I don't know if it's true or not but either way I wouldn't be surprised as it wasn't included due to a cost cutting measure. If it were keyed, even if the roller somehow failed it would seem that it would be easier to screen out the filings or that it would cause issue with injector damage but less likely to be catastrophic.

I also haven't seen a design where force is being applied to the cam from 2 directions set at roughly 45° as opposed to opposite each other. Look at the design of the CP3 and notice that the 3 pistons are set so they are all opposing each other. How much impact that has I'm not sure but I've never seen that before.

Edelbrock owns the patent. I have found it before, however my computer's network is down right now.

 

[Wayne M.]

I just can’t believe this is happening.

 

[UglyViking]

Edelbrock owns the patent. I have found it before, however my computer's network is down right now.

Good to know, if you find that I would be interested in taking a look. I wonder if the patent is still active and was not included as another cost cutting measure.

Either way I'm betting that Bosch wishes they would have done a bit more R&D in the US market, after losing that contract for GM I'm sure it hurt.

 

[DonFitzwater]

I just can’t believe this is happening.

What? Biden being president soon? Me either.

 

[Wayne M.]

What? Biden being president soon? Me either.

I got put on vacation for less than that.