Lots of DEF

[Cummins12V98]

Friend has a 13 DRW that pulls a big Mobile Suites at 34k combined. For the last year at several Chrysler Dealers he has complained of excessive DEF usage and low on power. They all say there are no codes.

I talked to a friend that’s a Chrysler parts Manager. He gave me an injector gasket and said to pull the injector and I would know if something is wrong.

The pics show a lot of dried DEF. Also the exhaust pipe has a lot of soot that should not be there.

He has an appointment Wednesday to look it over. They mentioned injector and possibly SCR replacement. He still has MaxCare warranty, he is at 150k now.

I am assuming the SCR is very restricted causing the lower power. Is there anyway to clean it or is it toast at this point? Third pic is dried DEF that I scraped odd to install the new gasket. FYI use a dust mask doing this as my sinuses were plugged instantly.

Thoughts?

 

[JR]

Welcome newbie!

When my injector failed it was in just as bad or worse condition. But I also had a hard code and countdown to impending doom and gloom. If there are no codes I'd be reluctant to replace any hard parts.

I assume the SCR recall was performed and all flashes up to date since they have had it in to dealers?

 

[Ltngdrvr]

What are you considering excessive DEF usage?
Pulling that big wind dragging trailer at that high weight, the fuel economy has to be pretty low, and DEF usage should be pretty high.
The DEF injector will always have dried DEF on it.
And, if there are no codes showing/pending then the ecm isn't sensing an issue.

 

[AH64ID]

Which Max Care does he have? I thought 125K was the highest one.

Agree with the other comments on no code, and needing to know what high consumption is. The more power the engine makes the lower the EGR is used, which means more DEF consumption.

 

[Cummins12V98]

He has had truck since new. He keeps track of everything. It’s 2.5 gallons per 300 miles. Much worse than before.

it’s a MaxCare and is still active.

 

[Cummins12V98]

Welcome newbie!

When my injector failed it was in just as bad or worse condition. But I also had a hard code and countdown to impending doom and gloom. If there are no codes I'd be reluctant to replace any hard parts.

I assume the SCR recall was performed and all flashes up to date since they have had it in to dealers?

Yea I took a well DESERVED vacation.

Yes SCR was replaced long ago. Yes all updates done as of May.

Seems to me with black soot in the tailpipe, the pizzing DEF the SCR is not flowing exhaust like normal and is plugging up.

 

[Cummins12V98]

What are you considering excessive DEF usage?
Pulling that big wind dragging trailer at that high weight, the fuel economy has to be pretty low, and DEF usage should be pretty high.
The DEF injector will always have dried DEF on it.

And, if there are no codes showing/pending then the ecm isn't sensing an issue.

Explain the black soot.

 

[Cummins12V98]

Really frustrating part is not one dealer popped the injector to give it a visual.

When talking to my parts friend his first comment was pop the injector. After showing him the pics he said that was not ok.

First pic shows DEF was puking out of the gasket.

 

[AH64ID]

The SCR is after the DPF, so soot wouldn't occur with a SCR issue.

 

[lpennock]

Explain the black soot.

Black soot post DPF is an indication of a cracked DPF.

 

[Cummins12V98]

Black soot post DPF is an indication of a cracked DPF.

Thanks. Will pass that along.

 

[gsbrockman]

401.52 mpg has been my average for DEF consumption. If in fact it’s 300 miles per 2.5 gallons....it’s excessive. I also kinda question his ability to calculate DEF consumption on a regular “2.5 gallon” basis, though.....

 

[bcbender]

My average for the past 14k miles has been 428.9 mpg... I have never seen more than 550, but I've never driven it empty that long either.
Mixed empty / city / towing is around 500~600... got as low as 285 pulling hills in MT / WY at speed pulling 16k 5er. Every fill up has been at the DEF pump at a LOVES fuel stop. Been home now for about a month and ran out my AUX tank so the number should jump back up as I have gone over 1k miles and still have 1/3 a tank...

Average Fuel Economy = 12.3 MPG

 

[AH64ID]

My average for the past 14k miles has been 428.9 mpg... I have never seen more than 550, but I've never driven it empty that long either.
Mixed empty / city / towing is around 500~600... got as low as 285 pulling hills in MT / WY at speed pulling 16k 5er. Every fill up has been at the DEF pump at a LOVES fuel stop. Been home now for about a month and ran out my AUX tank so the number should jump back up as I have gone over 1k miles and still have 1/3 a tank...

The 19+ trucks appear to use more DEF than the 13-18 trucks.

I'm still sitting around 1000 mpg empty and 500 mpg towing. My lowest tank was 483 but that SLOW towing and driving around the mountains of Idaho with a large percentage of the miles having the torque converter unlocked and only pulling 4-8 mpg. I've had 2 tanks break 1000 mpg, and my lifetime average is 858 which correlates well with my towing miles.

 

[bcbender]

yeah, maybe some day I will have a DEF fill up w/o towing...

 

[Cummins12V98]

401.52 mpg has been my average for DEF consumption. If in fact it’s 300 miles per 2.5 gallons....it’s excessive. I also kinda question his ability to calculate DEF consumption on a regular “2.5 gallon” basis, though.....

Why question someone you know nothing about. He is a very smart guy that keeps track of everything. The quantity is an approximate.

 

[Cummins12V98]

I tow as heavy as he does and I use nowhere what he does. I am at 500mpg with about 1/3 towing.

Question is based on pics and black soot in tailpipe what would you expect to be done if it were your truck.

His RV is his home and tows a lot so he knows when something is wrong.

Poor fuel economy and less power also. Yes he keeps records.

 

[Newsa]

Maybe I am wrong. But since the DPF burns off the soot particles that it collects, it really just makes the soot particles smaller when it burns those particles off. So I expect that even though it will require more time to visibly blacken the tail pipe, it will still blacken due to the smaller soot particles exiting the tail pipe?

 

[sag2]

If the DPF is good, you should have zero black soot in the tailpipe, even with several hundred thousand miles.

 

[gsbrockman]

Is this the same guy you mentioned several months ago when I mentioned his SCR / exhaust might be restricted with caked up DEF?