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AC Clutch not engaging

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My AC clutch recently stopped engaging and I am trying to diagnose why.

I need to know what voltage I should be getting @ the unplugged connector for the AC Coil (located @ top back of compressor} when the cab AC button is on.

Truck is 2006 Ram 2500 5.9 with close to 40,000 original miles.

Checked R134a pressure with manifold gauge set. 70lbs both High and Low pressure @ 58 deg F. (compressor not turning ;-) )
I am guessing that this should be high enough pressure to let clutch engage.

Fuses are all good

Compressor is Visteon by Halla Climate Control Corp
MFG Date 5E111
DaimlerChrysler P/N 55111411AC
Visteon P/N 6DRH-DN5AA
HS-18 Model

Thank you in advance for any help you can give.
Ken
 
The compressor clutch should be receiving 12 volts. 70 psi should be enough pressure to kick on the compressor when AC is requested.
I am not going to be much help because most of the control circuit is electronic (sourced from the Totally Integrated Power Module). Sounds like some high school kids made up that name.

You could try using a jumper switch to provide the 12 volts to the compressor. At least it would tell you if it is functioning properly. If it still does not work, then supply a separate ground circuit as well. If either of these tests make the compressor operate, then you know the problem is elsewhere.

- John



upload_2022-6-21_19-19-37.png
 
Thank you for the information and schematic John.
I picked up a Power Probe 3, so I'll see what voltage I am getting and I'll see if I can get the clutch to engage with the PP3 tomorrow.
Thanks again
Ken
 
70psi sounds high without the compressor working. This could be causing the high pressure switch to not allow current to flow to clutch. Low side should be in the 40 - 55 psi range with temps of 80 - 90 degrees. The highest low side is 55 psi at up to 110 degrees. Low side pressure is much more important to how A/C works. High side give you an idea if there's a blockage in the system. Hope this helps.
 
70psi sounds high without the compressor working. This could be causing the high pressure switch to not allow current to flow to clutch. Low side should be in the 40 - 55 psi range with temps of 80 - 90 degrees. The highest low side is 55 psi at up to 110 degrees. Low side pressure is much more important to how A/C works. High side give you an idea if there's a blockage in the system. Hope this helps.

Any idea what would suddenly cause the pressure to rise?

I am the second owner of the truck, have owned it around 2 1/2 years and have never touched the AC because it has worked flawlessly.
The first owner bought the truck when he was in his 70's and was in his 90's when he passed away and I see no sign that the AC was tampered with.
Everything appears to be original.

Thank you for your input.
Ken
 
Checked R134a pressure with manifold gauge set. 70lbs both High and Low pressure @ 58 deg F. (compressor not turning

This is good information from you and it shows that the refrigerant pressure is high enough in the system that the compressor should cycle on.

The chart below represents the temperature / pressure check that you performed. In your case the pressure for the high and low side are balanced because the compressor is not operating. The chart below shows the 58° F @ 54.9 psi relationship. You showed 58° F @ 70 psi. Yours is a little higher, but there could be variables that are affecting that, such as: gauge accuracy, or the temperature of the refrigerant could be warmer than the ambient air temperature. This difference is of no concern. Note that the chart shows as temperature of refrigerant rises, the pressure also rises.

- John

upload_2022-6-22_7-58-7.png
 
Thank you for your help and the chart.
two things I forgot to add that may have affected my pressure results.

My altitude is 650' above sea level and my gauge accuracy is + - 2%

2% wouldn't make much difference, but, the altitude might.

Thanks again
Ken
 
Just checked voltage
Engine running, AC button on, 14.7v @ batteries, 14.7v @ compressor connector.
Appears that there is plenty of power to activate the clutch.

Am I wrong in guessing that it is most likely that the coil has failed or is there something else that I should be checking?

Thanks again
Ken
 
Petersonj,
I have questions about the chart you provided.

Does it represent Low side while compressor is running or the pressure w/o compressor running?
If it is for compressor running, is there a chart for when it is not running?

I have seen online that the best way to know how much R134a in your system is to evacuate the system and then weigh the amount you are putting back in.
While the chart may not be as accurate as evac & weigh, I assume that it is still accurate enough to provide satisfactory results.

I assume that since different ac systems are different sizes and hold different quantities of R134a, ie, the larger the system the higher the volume of R134a, then if you weigh the refrigerant to the correct amount, you should get the results that are reflected on the chart or close to it.

Thanks again
Ken
 
Not an AC tech, period.

That clutch is just a coil making it into a magnet when power is applied, right? How about a simple resistance, continuity test of the coil only.
 
I did check continuity with Power Probe 3 this morning, but the results were vague at best so I didn't mention the results.

The results with probe on + side was 0.0 & reversed it was more than 2k - less than 20k
wonder if there is a diode in it.
 
There are 2 sensors in the system that will prevent the compressor from working. One is a high pressure switch and the other is a low pressure switch. I believe that you have to much pressure in system without the compressor running. If you evacuate the system and then use chart to figure, the results will be fine. Never see a HVAC guy carry a scale when checking you system. They got by temps and pressure readings. I've done my own vehicles this way for years with no issues. Even helped neighbor who had hit something and replaced both the rad and condenser. Put in condenser and new dryer, pulled vacuum the added oil and r134. That's been 2 years ago and says it's the coldest it's been since owning it.
 
There are 2 sensors in the system that will prevent the compressor from working. One is a high pressure switch and the other is a low pressure switch. I believe that you have to much pressure in system without the compressor running. If you evacuate the system and then use chart to figure, the results will be fine. Never see a HVAC guy carry a scale when checking you system. They got by temps and pressure readings. I've done my own vehicles this way for years with no issues. Even helped neighbor who had hit something and replaced both the rad and condenser. Put in condenser and new dryer, pulled vacuum the added oil and r134. That's been 2 years ago and says it's the coldest it's been since owning it.

Any idea how the pressure went up without any R134a being added to the system in at least 2 1/2 years and possibly since the truck was new?

I can't figure out how it could happen.

If the pressure was too high and the high pressure switch was activated, wouldn't that prevent the 14.7v from going to the coil?
With the engine running and the ac button in the on position, it is sending 14.7v to the ac coil.

Thank you for your information
Ken
 
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Ken, Was there 14.7v in the connector? Meaning it had + & ground? The ground in connector may have to go through the pressure switches. As for the higher pressure could be clogging in the system as things age, wear on compressor plates. If you have vacuum pump, I would evacuate and pull a vacuum then close off for 12 - 24 hrs to look for system integrity. Then refill per tables. A/C systems are finicky creatures. Good luck with the issue.
 
Ken, Was there 14.7v in the connector? Meaning it had + & ground? The ground in connector may have to go through the pressure switches. As for the higher pressure could be clogging in the system as things age, wear on compressor plates. If you have vacuum pump, I would evacuate and pull a vacuum then close off for 12 - 24 hrs to look for system integrity. Then refill per tables. A/C systems are finicky creatures. Good luck with the issue.

I used the Power Probe on the connector and got 14.7v @ one terminal and a ground at the other terminal.
I understand what you are saying about the H&L switches and if they sensed a H or L condition, they would then open and cut off the ground. The P.P. found both power and ground at the connector which should indicate that was getting power and a good ground which would mean that both the H & L switches had to be in a closed condition, otherwise it would have given no reading at all.

Wouldn't a clogged condition only raise the pressure when the clutch was engaged and the compressor was turning?

Thank you again for your input. It helps me consider stuff that I had not thought of.
Ken
 
Petersonj,
I have questions about the chart you provided.

Does it represent Low side while compressor is running or the pressure w/o compressor running?
If it is for compressor running, is there a chart for when it is not running?

I am sorry I did not make it clear about the chart. The chart represents the AC system without the compressor running. The high pressure side and low side pressure will become the same value after the compressor has stopped running for a few minutes. The chart represents that condition. Your 70 psi pressure reading at 58° F is a bit higher than the chart shows, but that is not a problem. There are too many variables for you to expect an exact match with the chart. Also, the 70 psi reading is well below the cutout point of the high pressure switch. That switch comes into operation when the high pressure gets above 350 psi or higher to protect the system.

If it was a 90° F day, you would expect to see a pressure of around 104 psi without the compressor running (see chart). Obviously, in a normally operating system the compressor would still activate if AC was selected. This is why your 70 psi reading is a non issue.

So, on to the next thing...,

With the engine running and the ac button in the on position, it is sending 14.7v to the ac coil.

Are you testing with the wire connected or disconnected at the AC compressor? I am not familiar with your test meter, nor do I know your skill level at using a meter for electrical testing. Many modern meters give a voltage readout, but when there is no electrical load imposed (something that an old fashioned test light did automatically), the test results can be misleading. For example: a damaged wire with only a single strand of wire operational could give the voltage reading one would expect to see with a modern meter, but an old-fashioned test light would light dimly, letting you know that there is a voltage supply problem.

It is for these reasons that I suggest using jumper wires (with a 20 amp fuse in series) to bypass the supply and ground circuits of the AC clutch. Doing so will give you conclusive results immediately.

Rig up your jumper switch by the passenger side fender well. Have AC gauges connected and operational. Start the engine - don't activate the AC. Go to the jumper switch location and activate the switch. If the compressor engages, you should see immediate action on your gauges. If it does not engage, then you have an idea where the problem is.

- John
 
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I am sorry I did not make it clear about the chart. The chart represents the AC system without the compressor running. The high pressure side and low side pressure will become the same value after the compressor has stopped running for a few minutes. The chart represents that condition. Your 70 psi pressure reading at 58° F is a bit higher than the chart shows, but that is not a problem. There are too many variables for you to expect an exact match with the chart. Also, the 70 psi reading is well below the cutout point of the high pressure switch. That switch comes into operation when the high pressure gets above 350 psi or higher to protect the system.

If it was a 90° F day, you would expect to see a pressure of around 104 psi without the compressor running (see chart). Obviously, in a normally operating system the compressor would still activate if AC was selected. This is why your 70 psi reading is a non issue.

So, on to the next thing...,



Are you testing with the wire connected or disconnected at the AC compressor? I am not familiar with your test meter, nor do I know your skill level at using a meter for electrical testing. Many modern meters give a voltage readout, but when there is no electrical load imposed (something that an old fashioned test light did automatically), the test results can be misleading. For example: a damaged wire with only a single strand of wire operational could give the voltage reading one would expect to see with a modern meter, but an old-fashioned test light would light dimly, letting you know that there is a voltage supply problem.

It is for these reasons that I suggest using jumper wires (with a 20 amp fuse in series) to bypass the supply and ground circuits of the AC clutch. Doing so will give you conclusive results immediately.

Rig up your jumper switch by the passenger side fender well. Have AC gauges connected and operational. Start the engine - don't activate the AC. Go to the jumper switch location and activate the switch. If the compressor engages, you should see immediate action on your gauges. If it does not engage, then you have an idea where the problem is.

- John

Thank you for the clarification for the chart.
I just got back to the house after attempting to apply power to the coil and saw your message.

The Power Probe 3 (which is new to me, but is easily found and explained online and on Youtube) connects to the battery's + & - terminals and has a probe that tests for ground and for voltage.
It also has another ground at the probe so you can test components without them being on the vehicle.

By using the battery + & - it makes it a simple 1 hand project to test for ground and power and gives the voltage.

It also allows you to activate/apply power to, electric motors, solenoids, etc with the push of a switch just like the jumper you described.

I have been testing with the wires at the compressor disconnected, with the engine running and the ac button both off and on. Button off = no voltage at connector, button on = 14.7v at the connector and ground at other connector terminal.

There just isn't enough room for me to get 2 hands into the area and hold a grounded probe on 1 terminal and apply power to the other terminal'
I found a small alligator clip and I attached a wire that made it possible to connect the ground located at the Power probe.
This gave me the ability to finally and safely get into the tight area and apply power to the coil while only touching 1 terminal.
I didn't have the engine running, but 12.7v did not engage the clutch, it spun just as easily as it does w/o power.
I may be wrong, but it seems to me that if the electromagnet was working, it would still work without the engine running when it has a ground at 1 terminal and power at the other terminal, wouldn't it?

If you feel that the engine should be running when the coil is provided both power and ground remotely, I will test it again tomorrow.

Thank you for your help
Ken
 
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I didn't have the engine running, but 12.7v did not engage the clutch, it spun just as easily as it does w/o power.

Good troubleshooting, I love the Power Probes. I agree the clutch should pick up and you should be able to hear it. Could still be a broken wire in the connector to the clutch or at the magnet. The clutch may be replaceable. I have done it on GM Sandal compressors while the compressor is in the car. It requires a special puller on the GM compressors but they are readily available. I did not have to breach the AC System. I do not know about the Hella compressors, but they may be similar. Example from ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/172954907468
 
I may be wrong, but it seems to me that if the electromagnet was working, it would still work without the engine running when it has a ground at 1 terminal and power at the other terminal, wouldn't it?

You are not wrong. Just as long as a good power and ground circuit are established, you are good. No need to run the engine.

I read a bit about your testing tool. One concern - the power cables are 20 feet long, which means that current must travel 40 feet from battery source to battery ground and through the electrical load being tested (the AC clutch field coil). My concern is that the voltage drop through the long wiring from the tool and back could be great enough not to engage the magnetic clutch. It takes much more current to engage the clutch magnet than it does to keep the magnet engaged. So, your test could be accurate - or not. This is why it is worth going to the trouble of making up a couple of 14 gauge jumper wires (with a 20 amp in-line fuse) to provide a reliable separate power and ground circuit.

All test equipment has limitations. Not understanding those limitations can lead one to drawing a wrong conclusion. And, as Dirty Harry says, "A man's got to know his limitations."

You need to be very meticulous when testing electrical circuits. One poor test connection can lead you astray.

- John
 
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