Throttle Position Sensor Quandary or FUBAR?

[CharlesHoward]

My 05 Ram 5.9L Dually is stuck at the "Quality Diesel Shop" in Grant NE after throwing more Codes on a post Crankshaft and Camshaft Position Sensor replacement test drive. They are recommended by all the locals I've talked to. With 181k Miles I've told them to replace any and all "Engine Sensors" as they see fit

One CEL problem may be the Throttle Position Sensor (My Haynes Guide claims there isn't one for a Diesel Engine) and the Shop claims they can't readily source a new one and MIGHT have to pursue Salvage! But they're checking wiring and voltages in the meantime.

But Google shows many Throttle Position Sensors for a Diesel Ram and I know others have written about having to replace it.
EBay has lots for as low as $12 albeit not all will fit an 05. But that's assuming we're (the shop and I) are talking about the same sensor and online it could be either a Cummins 3970085 "ukulele" shaped Sensor or a Cummins 53031575 shaped with a Semicircle and squared off (Both appear to have the same "offset" screw mounting holes.) Amazon and Ebay know my Truck and they claim either Cummins TPS fits...
Are they correct?
What shall I tell the Mechanic without offending him?
Thanks for any advice!

 

[Ozymandias]

For an 05 it's the whole throttle pedal you need to replace.
Check rockauto for it.


53032794AB

 

[CharlesHoward]

Thanks!
I wouldn't have thought the whole pedal was involved vs. somewhere on the Engine...
Rock Auto's "Standard Motor Products" is $189 (interchangable with) the Geno's Garage MOPAR Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor at $170 - but why are their so many Cummins TPS small sensors - do they go in the Pedal??

 

[CharlesinGA]

On '03 and early '04. the TPS is mounted on the bottom of the LH battery tray and is cable operated from the accelerator pedal, somewhat of a hold over from the earlier, non CRD engines, but after that, the TPS got moved inside, on the pedal.

At $278 its expensive but even O'Reilly's has it listed https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/...500?q=accelerator+pedal+position+sensor&pos=0

I question why you would ever have someone willy nilly replace sensors unless the sensor either had a problem or had a fleet wide history of having an issue. If its working, don't mess with it.

Personally, I would pay the bill and get it out of there before they screw it up some more. If the mechanic cannot figure out where the TPS is, or how to buy one, he is not someone you want working on your truck.

Charles

 

[BigPapa]

I suggest the Mopar part from Geno’s.

 

[Ozymandias]

Yeah, Mopar from Genos, best deal for sure.

 

[p-Bar]

Always replace sensors with factory parts

 

[Darkbloodmon]

On '03 and early '04. the TPS is mounted on the bottom of the LH battery tray and is cable operated from the accelerator pedal, somewhat of a hold over from the earlier, non CRD engines, but after that, the TPS got moved inside, on the pedal.

Is OP talking about a TPS or the APP sensor? The app on early '03-'04 trucks is mounted to the engine front driver side near the intake horn behind a plate for the "throttle rod" that then connects to the pedal inside the cab.

Later model 24v second Gens also had this location.

IIRC the later model third gen trucks after '04.5 started moving them underneath the driver battery tray.

 

[Ozymandias]

Nope, 04.5 was the last MY with the TPS at the bell crank for auto trans and under the battery with a manual transmission.
05 went fully digital with the pedal mounted APPS for all transmissions as they finally upgrade the 48RE to not need a TV cable anymore.
There is alot of confusion about the position of the TPS but from what I learned through the years, the auto Trans always had it at the bell crank through the years from 1998 to 2004.5 whereas the manual transmissions can have it in both places but mostly -but not all- under the drivers side battery.

 

[p-Bar]

Ozy is correct as an owner of an 04.5

 

[CharlesHoward]

Thanks for all the advice! Such a great forum and magazine!
Everyone I talk to locally recommends this shop (28 miles away) and the Boss/Owner is friendly and says the TPS code is transitory so after learning he has a few mechanics (albeit all the pickups I saw there were Ford and Chevy + a variety of HDTs) and 2 Office women - convinced HIM (his staff) to order the Geno's (has heard of it) MOPAR Accelerator Pedal Position (TPS) with Pedal (05-06) VERSUS me trying to get it as he originally wanted (I'm not local!). Yes I'll pay for the "overhead" - just fix my truck!
Since Geno's sells these parts I suppose its not surprising my old 05 Truck might need some new ones...
Thankfully our service in SMALL town NE (14 streets South to North) doesn't require wheels to get to work or shop...

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Nope, 04.5 was the last MY with the TPS at the bell crank for auto trans and under the battery with a manual transmission.
05 went fully digital with the pedal mounted APPS for all transmissions as they finally upgrade the 48RE to not need a TV cable anymore.
There is alot of confusion about the position of the TPS but from what I learned through the years, the auto Trans always had it at the bell crank through the years from 1998 to 2004.5 whereas the manual transmissions can have it in both places but mostly -but not all- under the drivers side battery.

Ozy is correct as an owner of an 04.5

\

This is from my '03 FSM


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Maybe you're getting TPS and APPS confused. Searching through my 03 FSM with the F3 function the only hits for TPS are for the gas engines. As they have a throttle body, Diesel engines of this era don't. They use an Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor that sends pedal position signals to the ECM as stated above in the screen shots.

Later model trucks had a Pedal mounted APP(TPS) sensor. From Genos:

Also from Genos :

After 04.5 its a grey area. I've seen later model mid year trucks with engine mounted APP housings, late model fan shrouds and firewall mounted coolant bottles with early body style headlights.

This is from an '05 FSM

I'm pretty sure I know where the APPS is and what it does across various model years, maybe you're confused and referring to the transmission input speed sensor.

Why would there be a throttle sensor on a transmission? It's not an engine. The transmission is either using a wired connection to get the throttle position readout from the ECM to its TCM/a direct readout from the sensor connected to the throttle/pedal or the transmission has a physical cable attached to it from the throttle pedal that is calibrated with a throttle body and its cable going to the pedal.

 

[Ozymandias]

Some call it TPS, others APPS - even Genos calls them both.
The unit that reads mechanical throttle input and turns it into something that the VP44 or Commonrail can use.

And I've no idea why the 05 manual talks about a bellcrank assembly as 04.5 was the last MY that used it.
Also not why the 03 reads about early and late model which is weird.

I stand by my posting above.

 

[CharlesHoward]

Shop called this morning and wanted me to come get my Truck and test drive it for "several hundred Miles" as they haven't seen the code return - tough to do with a 1 square mile town and possible 50 mile trips to Wal-Mart every other month... and raised the "don't want to install a Salvage part issue again!
I need this RAM to tow my Fiver in Sept either home to AL or uphill to CO for another job next Spring. Cajoled them into throwing this part on my truck (I'ld have all the sensors replaced at this age and mileage - how soon will the next one fail!)
Well, Geno's no longer has the 05 Mopar "APPS/TPS" despite being in their most recent Spring catalog on page 22. Maybe aftermarket will have to do.

 

[Ozymandias]

Just use the part number provided, even Amazon sells it and many other places to. I'd go Mopar here.

 

[AH64ID]

After 04.5 its a grey area. I've seen later model mid year trucks with engine mounted APP housings, late model fan shrouds and firewall mounted coolant bottles with early body style headlights.

That’s normal for an auto 04.5 truck.

All 04.5-05’s have the firewall mounted coolant bottle and the early headlights. The headlights changed in 06.

All 05+ trucks have the pedal mounted APPS/TPS.

04.5 manuals had the APPS under the battery tray. Auto’s had it on the engine for the lockdown cable routing.

 

[CharlesHoward]

Amazon doesn't have it in stock. I told the Shop to try RockAuto after Geno's didn't have one and I haven't heard anything yet so I suppose they ordered the "Standard Motor Products" APS312...
I'm also still waiting on new Alpharex Lux Headlights as recommended by Moses Lundel in the last TDR issue - maybe available sometime this month....

 

[BigPapa]

I can check Monday and see if it’s available. Mopar 53032794AB, correct?

 

[Ozymandias]

I can check Monday and see if it’s available. Mopar 53032794AB, correct?

Correct, at MOPAR it is labeled as discontinued - means there must be a new number out.
Someone with access to the partsnetwork can see which number it has now.

 

[CharlesHoward]

Steve from the Diesel Shop called me today (July 13). Could or did not order new TPS (neither could I)..... Drove it more. Wants me to drive it more. Will retrieve my Ram Tomorrow.
Ordered an EBay used "good Looking" (pictures looked good presuming they're not fake...) TPS 53032794AB for $124 just in case... Cheap Insurance?
- I've been hauling around a New MOPAR Multifunction 5304982AA Switch for the steering column for just OVER 13 years now, albeit it was only $98 new back in 2010 (it glitched a few times before then and only rarely since then...) Maybe time to resell it on Ebay!
Will see how the saga continues....
Thanks for the advice/assistance!