Injectors

[SHobbs]

Passenger side battery 11.47 volts, drivers side 12.12 volts with the terminals removed. I cleaned the crossover wire connection that's on the drivers side, connected everything back up to check with the engine running. Both batteries are showing 14.75 volts with the engine running, Edge CTS and power to exhaust brake are both disconnected. No change in how the truck runs still have the same problem. Two year old batteries on my 2013 show 12.54 volts with terminals removed, it would be nice if I could swap those batteries into the 04 but, no way possible cables are too short. What is the procedure for testing the wire harness for the injectors? I do know the multi function switch for the wipers is acting up, not sure if that can cause any issues like this. Opened the door this morning and wipers moved across the windshield. Any guru's near Tyler TX?

 

[Tuesdak]

Passenger side battery 11.47 volts, drivers side 12.12 volts with the terminals removed. I cleaned the crossover wire connection that's on the drivers side, connected everything back up to check with the engine running. Both batteries are showing 14.75 volts with the engine running, edge CTS and power to exhaust brake are both disconnected. No change in how the truck runs still have the same problem. Two year old batteries on my 2013 show 12.54

You have "checked" your meter with good batteries at 12.54 volts. You need around 12.6V for a good battery voltage so close enough. Your 11.47V and 12.12V is either weak needing a charge of the lower voltage battery is bad and murdered the other one.

Replace the batteries if a charge and load test don't test good. Stop at this step until you verified the batteries are "Good".

As it was mentioned these are mismatched batteries: clearly you are experiencing the reasons they say "Don't try this at home." Use a matched set of batteries and replace in pairs.

 

[Ozymandias]

14.75V shows clearly that the ECM desperately tries to charge those dead battery's.

 

[SHobbs]

What should the 04 show while running? The 2013 also shows 14.75 while running.

 

[Tuesdak]

What should the 04 show while running? The 2013 also shows 14.75 while running.

Generally ~13.5V - 15V depending on temperature. My 2003 was always on the acid spitting higher voltage side of things yet had the best battery life of anything I have owned in this heat.

But this merely shows the ECM and alternator are "ok". Batteries and connections to em are the "?"

 

[Ozymandias]

What should the 04 show while running? The 2013 also shows 14.75 while running.

That high of charge voltage either indicates a very low outside temperature or a depleted battery.
In great cold I've seen up to 15.2 for a short time after startup.
What I regularly see is between 13.8 and 14.4 - everything outside of that window is rare on my 04.5

 

[SSage]

My 03 runs at 14.5/14.6 volts in warm weather, 14.8 if its chilly out. Mismatched battery voltage could be a weak battery, but I would guess its a corroded battery cable. Usually the positive cross over cable going to the passenger side. The passenger side battery goes first because it is overcharged when the positive cable gets old and gives the ECM a low voltage reading. With the batteries disconnected they should be very close in voltage. Mine are usually .04 different.

 

[Grumpy8811]

Passenger side battery 11.47 volts, drivers side 12.12 volts with the terminals removed. I cleaned the crossover wire connection that's on the drivers side, connected everything back up to check with the engine running. Both batteries are showing 14.75 volts with the engine running, Edge CTS and power to exhaust brake are both disconnected. No change in how the truck runs still have the same problem. Two year old batteries on my 2013 show 12.54 volts with terminals removed, it would be nice if I could swap those batteries into the 04 but, no way possible cables are too short. What is the procedure for testing the wire harness for the injectors? I do know the multi function switch for the wipers is acting up, not sure if that can cause any issues like this. Opened the door this morning and wipers moved across the windshield. Any guru's near Tyler TX?

lets put it this way... a fully charged lead acid battery has six cells arranged in series... each cell is 2.1VDC when fully charged, so at full charge each battery should read 12.6vdc.. it obvious that if your meter is correct your batteries are not fully charged and their appears to be an imbalance in them.. so all charging system testing starts at the batteries.. if there is a problem in the main cables between them it would show in a voltage drop test while under load by going positive to positive across the batteries and then negative to negative on both batts.. if that is equal you need to look somewhere else

 

[SSage]

"Passenger side battery 11.47 volts, drivers side 12.12 volts with the terminals removed."

Passenger battery is toast, you need to determine if the batteries are being properly charged though. I would replace them ASAP anyway, surprised the truck starts. Every time my batteries show a resting voltage below 12.0 they never recover, never hold a full charge again even on my smart battery charger with the de-sulfate mode. As the batteries age the truck increases the charging voltage. I saw 14.8 to 15.0 recently, passenger side battery shorted out and started boiling. LarryB has a nice high quality flexible crossover cable with new battery terminals, its a convenient option if you don't want to make your own. Pricey though....

 

[SHobbs]

The current batteries were in the truck when I bought it, never had an issue while in Colorado. Funny thing, never had an issue with the batteries while in Colorado, once the truck hit Texs is when the problems started. Every vehicle we have freaked out coming to Texas, my 2013 Ram ( front end and death wobble issues ) and my wifes 2022 Acadia ( stupid TPMS system ), I guess they hate the Texas oven as much as I do.

 

[seafish]

Funny thing, never had an issue with the batteries while in Colorado, once the truck hit Texs is when the problems started.

Extreme heat definitely kills batteries much faster then extreme cold.

 

[SHobbs]

Well, two fresh batteries both showing 12.7 volts disconnected, still have the same shimmy and sound. Edge CTS and exhaust brake are not connected and no codes present. When running I have 14.6 volts showing at each battery. Weather wise, east Texas swamp warm and steamy

 

[Ozymandias]

Now that we know that the electric side is fine you do this.

With the proper equipment the injectors can be tested without touching anything but the OBD2 plug.
Cylinder contribution test tells you all you need to know.
Also single cylinder shut down gives information about the fueling.

Basic information to this, the test tells you the cylinder number matching the firing order - not the mechanical order within the motor.

By the way, what are you using for code reading, AutoEnginuity?

 

[SHobbs]

I'm using Launch Creader 3001, simple and basic. I guess testing the resistance on the injectors wouldn't tell me anything? Next would be to find a way to test through the OBD2 plug.

 

[Ozymandias]

Nothing below 500$ works properly on these old Truck.
Gosh I'd love to have a newer model truck just for diagnostic through AlfaOBD, so much better.
Ours is a pain to do.

The Launch 3001 probably won't even show Chrysler codes, just the generic setup that is available to any scanner.

 

[SHobbs]

I might see if I can find a mobile tech in my area instead of hauling it to a dealer to diagnose it, not sure which would be easier on the wallet. If I were still in CO I know a guy that could do it for cheap. Need my 2013 to sell so I can do what needs to be done with the 04

 

[Tuesdak]

Where are you at now? Some good independent diesel shops out there that members may know of in your current area.

 

[SHobbs]

Tuesdak, we moved back home to Texas just outside Chandler. Not sure if I should drive it or not, curious if I pulled the injectors if they can be tested that way?

 

[tjm]

Tuesdak, we moved back home to Texas just outside Chandler. Not sure if I should drive it or not, curious if I pulled the injectors if they can be tested that way?

I'm getting a new Randys Stage 2 transmission installed by these folks, sign outside says bosch injecter test house

https://dieselworksntx.com/

 

[cerberusiam]

Tuesdak, we moved back home to Texas just outside Chandler. Not sure if I should drive it or not, curious if I pulled the injectors if they can be tested that way?

They can be tested that way and you likely get a valid test. Partly because there isn't anyone in the states that knows how to test these injectors correctly and most of the techs couldn't understand what they get for readings anyway. It is racket to sperate you from $$ in most cases. They test a single pressure, about 12k psi IIRC but those injector need to operate correctly from 5k to 23k psi in balance or you gets vibes and all manner of strange running.

First test is get the engine up to operating temp and try a free rev test. Rev engine to 3000 rpms and hold for 10-15 seconds for the rail pressure to settle and lift all the way off the throttle. Watch the tach as winds down, if you see an hesitations steps as it de-revs the injectors are not balanced and 1 or is not reacting correctly.

If you can find someone that do a cylinder contribution test and interpret the results that would be next. A percentage contribution test like Enginuity does is easy to read, the others not so much. When have the test done make SURE it is at full operating temp and do the test within 5 minutes of starting to idle, preferably you pull up to the shop and park then the tech hooks up and runs the test, or your results will be skewed. If you do a lot of DD you should load the fuel up with Pwoer Service and drop 10k behind for a couple hundred miles and make the EGT's stay above 1000 degrees a good share of the time. ANY buildup of carbon or soot on the injectors\cylinder will totally skew contribution tests.

Once you have the contribution tests run a kill test on each cylinder and note the rpm drop as each is killed. This and the contribution test can only be run at idle so it is not exact across a range where most of the injector issues occur. It won't tell exactly what is wrong just indicate you need new injectors. With an 04 and 20 year old injectors that are lacking some significant updates they are probably done.