The few places I worked that NEVER was the case and NEVER heard a factory REP EVER even mention not doing legit warranty repairs. In fact just the opposite. They stressed trying to fix them right the first time and offer MANY tools in the way of info to the dealers. Dealers make a LOT of money on warranty work. A LOT. They get paid well! So do the techs doing it if their worth their salt. But I will say the MODDED vehicles that come in for the most part are a pain in the axxx to deal with. Not all but a lot of the owners and vehicles take up two or three times the amount of time spent on a un modded one. Use to get some vehicles and owners that when service writers saw them pulling in there was a rush for the restroom and the last one left on the drive WAS IT!
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05 voided my warranty 27,000 miles
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It sounds like DPKetchum has worked in dealership service departments. Of course he's telling us the truth. A dealer mechanic is certainly not interested in denying warranty claims. If DC will pay he'd be delighted to rebuild or replace your engine. He is paid for the work and could care less who pays. However, the dealer mechanic, service writer, service manager, and general manager would be committing serious fraud and risking losing thousands in warranty compensaton and even their franchise if they assisted an owner in defrauding DC out of a $10k engine when it is clear to them and any rep DC might send around to inspect the situation that a truck was highly modified. You must realize that DC or Cummins is going to inspect that engine when it is removed from your truck and returned to a parts depot. It will likely be inspected because they are genuinely interested in learning the cause and preventing another failure if it is due to a routine part failure and also to ensure they weren't cheated out of a free engine when the truck owner caused the failure.
I learned the phrase here: You are your own warranty station.
Please don't misunderstand. I'm not happy someone has suffered an engine failure. It would be very troubling to me also. It will be costly and few of us have $10k or $15k laying around in a drawer or under our mattress. I am simply trying to present an objective opinion or other side of the argument. I don't think it is fair to expect the dealer to pay or the dealer to assist an owner in defrauding DC.
Harvey
I learned the phrase here: You are your own warranty station.
Please don't misunderstand. I'm not happy someone has suffered an engine failure. It would be very troubling to me also. It will be costly and few of us have $10k or $15k laying around in a drawer or under our mattress. I am simply trying to present an objective opinion or other side of the argument. I don't think it is fair to expect the dealer to pay or the dealer to assist an owner in defrauding DC.
Harvey
Hammer
TDR MEMBER
Hmmmmm... ... Jim...
Could this truck you knew about been anyone we BOTH might know and possibly how he did it,LOL.
:-laf :-laf . BTW... Do you think that there would be ANY chance of this certain owner. since he is so experienced at the repair job doing it again. Oh wait... I forgot you and Josh did all the work and he supervised... 
steved...
It would be my opinion that those here are NOT defending D-C for their actions,but,I am also certain that if you were the friendly service manager who had to deal with customers like you,your attitude would be no different. One thing that many here on the various diesel boards maybe do not know or fail to remember is that when D-C purchases these great powerplants from Cummins they are also bought with no warranties from Cummins. D-C is the one who writes and backs the warranties on all of their Cummins powered Rams,not Cummins,and with the meare cost at times for parts,I am certain they have their reasons for what they do. The infamous "53" block should have showed you what I mean by that. Its well known they crack and Cummins was not doing ANY warranties on them,Dodge was,IF they failed within warranty limits.
I guess if your were in charge this would be the scenario... .
-Mr. Jabloney walks into the dealership and is very distressed about a failure of his new Cummins powered Ram. It blew the fuel rail apart due to excessive pressure and caught fire causing damage. He steps up to the desk of the friendly service writer,you steved, at the towns Dodge dealership and the ensuing conversation goes like this... .
-steved... Why hello Mr. Jabloney and how are you today?.
-Mr. Jabloney... NOT GOOD!. . This sackin frackin rackin Dodge blew the fuel rail apart and it caught fire on Saturday nite. Its here now,towed in and I DEMAND to know what your going to do to fix it.
-steved... Didn't I see you at the fairground on Saturday nite sled pulling?. Man,it was a good thing those firemen got to you quickly and extinguished the flames,or it could have been worse.
-Mr. Jabloney... Yeah it was,now what is Dodge going to do to FIX my truck?.
-steved... Well Sir,My very talented certified mechanic looked it over this morning and seen the damage and we have good news for you. Even though its easy to see you had many aftermarket accessories added and evidence of a fueling module being there,D-C will fix it ALL for only the cost of your deductable. Heck,while its down for warranty work see my secretary and she will set you up with a loaner vechicle. Depending on the parts availability and how soon they can be delivered we should have it fixed in no time flat.
-Mr. Jabloney... Well I am relieved,I thought you'd try that old "void the warranty" deal because of my modifications. We both know they don't hurt or cause any problems,RIGHT?.
-steved... No not at all,here we make sure we treat everyone with the utmost respect and never dispute their claims at all. Its always better for D-C to pay to fix whatever happens,even when it breaks doing what you enjoy to do like you did.
-Mr. Jabloney... Thanks a million steved,you will always get my business.
-steved... No problem,glad to help a owner out in his time of need. I'll call you as soon as its finished.
Mr. Jabloney smiles wide as he walks away knowing that his own selfishness just cost D-C alot of money out of their pockets. What does he care for anyway,at least it wasn't out of his pocket and never thinking that D-C could end up like another major manufacturer is lately,closing factories everywhere due to money issues.
Kinda evens sounds tacky and foolish doesn't it?.
So with that all thats left to say to you steved is this,look through both windows sometime and see if maybe you can vision what its like in their shoes. Yes,they,D-C,do make some stupid mistakes and are not perfect but anymore what brand name is?. I hope the grass is much greener with your next truck and let me know if you need help finding a home for that unwanted Ram as there are lots of owners who would LOVE to have it.
Hoot Ol Friend. .
You are correct if the warranty is the extended warranty paid by the owner. Hope all is well with the family and life is good. Drop me a note or call sometime... ... ... Andy
Had a big county cop once tow in a 300zx with a broke motor. Auto had 29k or so on it. 300z DID NOT break motors. Anyhow he had JUST bouight the auto off a air line pilot about 2 weeks before. Clean looking auto. SLUDGE PUPPY. BAD! the COP was the third owner(later after following paper trail) and the 300z had the ORIGINAL oil filter on it. Anyhow ther COP got in the Service Mangers face(about 2 inches)and SCREAMED it WOULD be taken care of with spit rolling out of his mouth,Not being MAD at whom he had just bought the car. Previous owner"s HAD kept the auto garaged and VERY clean but neither had ever serviced the auto. I later saw it at a BP station,sat there for several weeks. Finally got a USED engine and showed back up to our shop over check engine light etc. being on that THEY could not figure out.
HBarlow said:
Why no lawsuit?? Because it would be more aggrevation and money than it is worth. Lemon law?? Not easy in the state of Pennsylvania. DC preys on this... nickel and dime you on things that most of us will simply pay for so that we can get our truck back.
At least the Ford and GM guys get taken good care of over warranty issues (the GM injector replacement comes to mind... )... dodge isn't any better quality than either of the others anyway (anymore)... my 99 gave FAR BETTER service than this 2004. 5 has so far... I have already had more issues with this truck than my 99 and my dad's 99 combined.
Objective and fair? After having the tech tell me there is definately a vibration at 70MPH that removing the front driveshaft eliminates, then being told and documented it is "normal"? I think my opinion is justified. And fighting with DC (from new) about a clutch noise because the TSB that described my noise was for an 03, not an 04 (even though the tech said, "... yep, that's the noise the TSB addresses... ")... again, I was told it was normal and documented as such... it took me over 3 months of nagging to finally get them to complete the TSB, which WOW!, solved the problem... somewhat.
Mind you I have exhausted all the dealers in a reasonable distance of me... some will repair the truck under warranty, one charged me a "diagnostic fee" just to look at it to perform warranty work, and others flat out deny any warranty... and they all change, not one will consistantly warranty problems (ones that are legit)... and DC, I might as well talk to a wall.
And if DC was so worried about you the consumer, then why did they drop their 7/70 warranty?? Probably because they were paying out way too much in warranty work...
I'm sorta glad I'm out of warranty as it did nothing but raise my blood pressure every single time I took it in... the best ones are "we will need to see if DC will cover this"... you mean you're a dealer and don't know???
At least I have a Cummins dealer near me that is reasonable and knows what they are doing...
steved
Hammer said:
I don't care how DC gets the engine they put in the diesel or the warranty they get with it... that is THEIR issue... I bought a truck with a 3/36 BTB and 7/70 PT warranties.
Their dealerships are inconsistant... one will warranty stuff one day and not the next. DC is all too quick to deny warranty work. I have talked with one owner (2005 Hemi 1500) who had never touched his truck to mod it... he pulled the battery terminals off to coat with corrosion prohibitor... only to a month later have trans problems... they denied his warranty based on the "battery disconnected with less than 50 key cycles"... thye claimed this proved he had a programmer hooked to the truck.
The only time I got PO'd was after they denied warranty... and again, I have an almost completely stock truck... at least at that time... I have since mod'd and do all my own work... the "I am my own warranty station applies"... since I know that pretty much any dealer is going to say that my dynatrac hub kit or my FASS caused my door weather stripping to wear out...
And as far as "look through both windows"... I worked in a dealership. I know how badly they can screw with someone... I have personally been there when the service manager and tech were talking about how they were going to deny someone's warranty for something stupid... in this example, it was a drain plug that the owner had installed in the transmission pan to drain the fluid out... no mods to anything else, and they denied him warranty on the transfercase, which had nothing to do with that drain plug... at that time it meant nothing to me... until I am on the other side of the fence...
steved
Hoefler said:
I agree... but with my luck, too far away to do me any good.
And something I found funny... I basically have to pull teeth to get work done around here... I had issues on the road in Texas and those people worked their tail off to get me back on the road the same day. If anyone is in need and your close to Greenfield Dodge in TX, that is the only dealership that treated me right.
steved
STEVED they need to REPLACE front shaft. I know of TWO(one 06) that got new front shafts and it fixed them first trip in. D. C. quality in some ways must have improved. Usually only BAD image manufactures have the LONG warrantys. Was just in a D. C. dealer the other day and the PAPER WORK REP was there. He said that on national average warranty has dropped to under 18% of the volumn in service depts. When I was with Nissan it was 10% and G. M. was 24%. This was for me 6/7 years ago. The BETTER manufactures have never run LONG warrantys as a rule. Just ones with questionable quality.
DPKetchum said:
For $1700, the dynatrac kit fixed what DC couldn't. That $1700 could have saved me $$$, downtime, and aggrevation if I would have just did it to begin with...
I got so disgusted with DC dealers that I just quit trying to get warranty done, just fix it myself... cheaper and better quality work.
My warranty is pretty much gone at 87k, figure since the FASS is on the truck that any chances of the 100k CTD warranty is gone... but I knew that when I put it on... figured I had better protect my investment as best I could since DC doesn't stand behind it...
I was just trying proving a point... the dealers work as hard or harder to find ways to deny warranty overall, than these guys on here try to sneak mod'd trucks through. Unfortunately, sometimes some of us with unmodded trucks get spanked because of that...
steved
I agree with Blacksdieselhp and STEVED that there is no reason to have any
sympathy on DC, because they sure don't have any for you! I'm not saying
that the guy who destroys something at a sled pull or drag race should expect
the dealer to be his unknowing sponsor, but at the same time there is no excuse to deny warranty coverage on the AC system because a guy has an
aftermarket air intake. I have been fortunate not to need the dealers services
thus far (30k mi. ) and I will not let them touch my truck if I can help it and
unless there is a problem which I believe should be their responsibilty under
warranty by anyones perspective such as AC , power window,etc. When
I install my Dynatrac hubs , I don't expect DC to warranty my wheel bearings,
but I do expect them to be sensible and not cancel the entire warranty because of this one mod. The MAGNUSON MOSS act is in my opinion
a very fair arbitration for both the ******* and the vehicle owner and before
anyone chimes in to bring it to my attention, I am fully aware that what I
expect and even opine may not be what I receive from the greedy corporate giant.
I would also have to agree with Yo Hoot that if the ******* is going to void ones warranty under false pretention , the predetermined face value of said
warranty should be refunded. It should not be so easy for DC to simply skate
on a warranty that we all know we paid dearly for ( no matter what we are told) without a legally justifiable cause.
sympathy on DC, because they sure don't have any for you! I'm not saying
that the guy who destroys something at a sled pull or drag race should expect
the dealer to be his unknowing sponsor, but at the same time there is no excuse to deny warranty coverage on the AC system because a guy has an
aftermarket air intake. I have been fortunate not to need the dealers services
thus far (30k mi. ) and I will not let them touch my truck if I can help it and
unless there is a problem which I believe should be their responsibilty under
warranty by anyones perspective such as AC , power window,etc. When
I install my Dynatrac hubs , I don't expect DC to warranty my wheel bearings,
but I do expect them to be sensible and not cancel the entire warranty because of this one mod. The MAGNUSON MOSS act is in my opinion
a very fair arbitration for both the ******* and the vehicle owner and before
anyone chimes in to bring it to my attention, I am fully aware that what I
expect and even opine may not be what I receive from the greedy corporate giant.
I would also have to agree with Yo Hoot that if the ******* is going to void ones warranty under false pretention , the predetermined face value of said
warranty should be refunded. It should not be so easy for DC to simply skate
on a warranty that we all know we paid dearly for ( no matter what we are told) without a legally justifiable cause.
The dealer has a responsibility to determine what actually caused the failure. By law, they can't just spin the wheel and pick one. They would have to give me reasonable proof that a straight pipe or chip/box caused the problem. I wouldn't be taking it lying down if they didn't show me at least that. I think it's BS and I think there still are some dealers out there that want to actually work. Besides, what do they get if they turn you away or void your warranty? Nothing from anybody.
ViperQA1 said:
But, the dealer knows, that generally, your not going to know jack about your truck... they know most people won't fight their decision.
And what real recourse do you have... DC denies to warranty something on your truck... they can tie ANYTHING to a mod if they want... even the AC. And what I have seen recently is that even the slightest mod voids the entire warranty... OK, then refund the remaining $$$ I paid for that warranty if you won't honor it.
My gripe was that they could pick and chose what they wanted to "warranty" and what they could deny since it was "outside" the warranty scope, even though it was spelled out in the warrranty I purchased. I had three local dealers do this to me.
And this was something that recently got me red in the face... I bought a used Subaru Outback at a Ford dealer... within a day I determined it had either a blown head gasket or cracked head... called the dealer expecting a fight... they fixed it (head gasket), sent the heads and rad out for inspection/flushing, replaced timing belts, drive belts, hoses, drained and flushed the transmission (because it was there), etc (things well above and beyond what was needed) on a USED car that they didn't even franchise!! I had to practically pull fingernails and teeth to get the weather stripping on my ram replaced with 15k on the clock, 5 months old, AND a TSB!!!!!!!!!!!! And I bought it new from that dealer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
steved
Steve'd If you buy another make and chip it let us know what happens when you try to claim warranty. I have only been a member for two years and don't recall any engines failing stock except for known issues in early engines which D/C took care of even when bombed, because it was harder to detect in early years. If you buy a GM make sure you have a good extended warranty and put it in writing that they replace your engine with a new one (good luck) when you suck a glow plug. If you buy a ford make sure you get it in writing that they will replace the truck after your 5'th trip in for too numerous problems too repeat on this forum. If the chip manufactures don't back up their products like D/C has too, than don't buy them. You chippers are causing our repairs to be voided due to trust factor.
RVTRKN said:
Considering my truck isn't chipped, why did you direct this at me... I have NOT had warranty denied for any of the few mods I have... most of the denials were BEFORE I did any mods and I added mods because of the denials based on the "what warranty?" principle...
As far as the brands being better than another, IMHO, all three have their quirks... one isn't clearly better than another. And I wouldn't care if the GM did suck a glow plug as long as their warranty would cover it... and I am talking a stock truck.
And I'm probably not even going to buy a dodge/ford/gm branded vehicle next... probably be a smaller International or Freightliner chassis and build upon that.
steved
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