05 voided my warranty 27,000 miles

[Big MAK]

I've said it before -- all the dealers are doing it (denying warranties for any and all reasons true or fabricated).



That said -- I have a warranty on my '06 and am keeping the truck stock.



I think the injectors are bad... trying to decide if I should fix them or fight for warranty repairs. My experiences with all my other CTDs is I'll end of fixing them myself because DC won't fix them. It always starts me on the bombing path -- which will void my warranty -- why not? DC won't warranty it anyway so may as well have some fun AND A BETTER, MORE RELIABLE, truck.



It's been my experience with every truck I've owned that I get pushed into a do-it-yourself repair because DC refuses to fix it. So far; all my trucks have been reliable with little engine work and most of it done myself in a no-warranty situation.



For the record; I have had a bumper to bumper warranty voided (by DC) due to power upgrade. I'm still trying to figure out how the engine mod damaged my radio and A/C.

 

[steved]

I think the injectors are bad... trying to decide if I should fix them or fight for warranty repairs. My experiences with all my other CTDs is I'll end of fixing them myself because DC won't fix them. It always starts me on the bombing path -- which will void my warranty -- why not? DC won't warranty it anyway so may as well have some fun AND A BETTER, MORE RELIABLE, truck.

There was another guy on TDG that kept having injectors replaced to find that DC wasn't replacing something that Cummins recommends be replaced with the injector (cross tube??) and even with him telling them that was the problem, they refused to replace that part... I believe he ended up doing it himself.



steved

 

[HBarlow]

Do you recall the dealership??? They sound like the kind of people I would like get to know!!



Thanks

Hoefler:



Yes, I went out to my truck and got their name from my maintenance log book. I am pleased to recommend such a good dealer to you or anyone else.



Their name is:



Central Dodge

1025 W. Sunshine

Springfield, MO



Interestingly, I found them by keying in the word "Dodge" in my Garmin GPS. The GPS pulled up a list to choose from and I selected that one and drove to it. They are a 5 Star dealer and, in my opinion, richly deserve that distinction.



As anyone can see, my home is in Texas. I had never set foot on that dealer's lot before that morning, know no one there, and have no connection to them whatsoever.



Everyone there was friendly and helpful and it was a pleasure to go there for service. They also had some nice inventory to look over while I waited. They had an SRT-8 with the 6. 1 liter Hemi on the showroom floor and several other high performance Hemi sedans.



Harvey

 

[y-knot]

Wow... With all this negativity toward the DC dealers and service members, one wonders why they bought a Dodge????



Maybe I'm just real lucky (I have never won a thing in my life), or you guy's are drawn to bad luck like stick on s****... . Which is it??



I have a very good relationship with my local Chrysler/Jeep dealer (not Dodge), they have been there when I needed them and really worked hard to find a solution to the problems that WE would both find exceptable. Granted, I have not had many problems, but the ones I have had they were great about it. Most were TSB's I read about in the TDR, and they were more then glade to fix the problem, or potential problem (nothing wrong at the time).



I too decided very early on to modify my Cummins and in turn become my own warranty station, but that was back in 1997. Today you could not pay me to modify the thing that early into the warranty period, thats just how much the trucks have changed over that very short time frame. I agree with the post regarding the advent of electronic box's and how anyone with a CC can now bump their HP ratings by 100-175 horses. They need not know anything about the engine or it's internal workings, just how to plug in a electrical connector. This in it self is one of the problems, the lack of mechanical knowledge.

Also the world of diesel powered trucks is exploding before us, more and more new to diesel owners are emerging. Where before, diesel owners were mainly repeat or multiple diesel owners that were more likely then not, to make there living with them.

Nothing is free... ... . this holds true around the world. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Everytime you modify something to run better, faster or stronger you shorten it's lifespan. This holds true for any engine, gas or diesel. Thirty some odd years ago when the first series of 5. 9L in-line six cylinder diesel engines came rolling off the assembly lines, they were robust in design and had no problem living a long life. But over the years, there have been many modification, and most of them having something to do with adding more power. Who would have thought the 5. 9L engine of 1989, the first year it was available for purchase in the Dodge Ram pickup, would be transformed into the 24 valve, monster it is today? Not me and I doubt if any of the original engineers would have ither. This is why we needed the new 6. 7L, and this is why it is a total re-design and not a simple re-do we have already had to many of those. The 5. 9L has run it's corse, it was a great engine, and will be around for many years to come, but it needs to be replaced. The luster has grown dim on the Cummins Nameplate, the engines are not what we the buying public have grown to expect, so the change was made. I look forward to the new6. 7L, it a new diesel engine built for todays trucks to todays standards by the best diesel engineers in the world.

 

[Rampant]

On the issue of warranty, what's that. 4000 miles and I tore the drivetrain apart. Only stock part is the short block. But the two dealers know what I am doing and think it is cool and will help me with any issues I have. From the GM at one place all the way down, and with parts and service at the other one. I tried to buy mine without one and they can't do it.

 

[DieselFiend]

On TDR, I'm suprised and even shocked to hear people still saying, if you mod anything, you become your own warranty station. Simply not true and simply not the law. I say, if a part fails because of a modification you did, then you become your own warranty station on that particular part. Now thats fair. And I'd be willing to except that from a dealer that was honest enough to approach me with it. You just can't say the whole engine or drivetrain warranty is void because of a modification. It's only if the mod caused the failure and it can be proven. Most people wouldn't but I'd fight them tooth and nail if it happened to me.

 

[amsoilman]

This is my third Dodge/Cummins truck, first was a 1991 1/2, second was the 1994 ,and the last, which I still have is a 2003. All of them have been 4X4 trucks.



The first one had a problem in running properly under "Load", and the dealer tried many times to fix it changing out the Injuection pump not only once, but twice! In so doing, there became MORE PROBLEMS, as the tech working on the truck new nothing about Diesels, especially Cummins!



This was not Dodge's fault! This was the fault of the Tech, as he didn't know anything, but the dealer did try to fix! Cummins finally fixed it, and it was simple... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ..... changed out the Fuel Filter, and then timed the engine to the Injection pump, which the Tech said didn't need to do! Truck was sold to my nephew so I could get the 94'. He put 250,000 on it before trading for a 2002.



The 94' had a problem with the U-Joints, as well as the brakes, but the dealer (Different than the first one) continued to work with me, and finally figured it out, and fixed it. Truck had 150,000 on it when sold, and was still in excellant condition!



The 03' has had NO PROBLEMS at all, other than a bad shock, and steering was not adjusted correcly. I now have over 60,000 on it, and love it with a passion!



When these trucks first came out in 1989, there were no pickups on the market that could compete with these trucks when it came to hauling, and pulling, which is why so many people bought them! At that time they did not buy them to race or drag, or go a 100 MPH, just pull and haul BIG loads!



We didn't have to "mod" them, as they would out pull/Haul anything in the pickup world! It wasn't till 1996 when FORD could get anywhere close to pulling with a Dodge/Cummns, and GM didn't come close until the 2000 models! Dodge/Cummins was the one that got the ball moving in the Diesel Pickup world!



Now you see people buying them and turning them into race trucks, and all sorts of different power monsters, then complaining about warranties when they have an issue that very possibly was caused by a power enhancement device.



My. 02 worth.

 

[HBarlow]

Viper,



This thread was started by a member who stated in the text of his post that his truck has an aftermarket air filter and a strip of velcro which, he didn't deny, was evidence of a programmer. He further stated that his engine suffered from blow-by. Most of us would agree that on a 27,000 mile Cummins blow-by is probable evidence of worn pistons, worn piston rings, worn cylinder walls, or all three and not normal for a low mileage Cummins engine. These conditions could be the likely result of an aftermarket air filter that didn't seal and filter as well as an OEM filter and/or a programmer that overfueled or fueled early and caused excessive combustion chamber pressures and/or excessive exhaust temperatures. The dealer's service manager probably reached a conclusion similar to the one I have just put forward and reported to DC who voided his engine warranty. The dealer may or may not be correct but I would have reached the same decision if I were the service manager or DC.



Most of us are aware of the general legal concept of the federal law, Magnusson-Moss Act or whatever the formal title is and would agree that in theory the manufacturer probably has to prove that the modifications caused the problem to void the warranty.



So lets assume that the manufacturer takes the first step by stating that they believe the aftermarket filter and probable programmer caused the damage and the warranty is void. This is the key step that many overlook or choose to overlook. DC does not have to go to court and produce testimony to convince a judge or jury that the modifications caused the problem and get a verdict in their favor before they can void the warranty. All DC has to do is void it and their decision stands unless a court orders them to warranty the damage. That is apparently what happened in this case.



Viper, how would you suggest the owner fight them tooth and nail?



The only step he can logically take, other than to raise his voice, demand, and threaten dealer personnel, and get himself barred from the premises and possibly jailed for his actions, would be to file a lawsuit in state court demanding damages. He would have to hire an attorney to represent him. Most lawyers aren't stupid, they would consider the law and the facts and decide the merit of the case before filing a suit. Lawyers don't like to lose cases and they certainly don't want to lose cases and not be paid for their efforts. I believe that most sensible attorneys would recognize that they were up against the vast resources of Daimler-Chrysler who could produce corporate engineers, years of statistical records including warranty history, and be able to hire "independent" engineers and skilled mechanics to testify. An honest lawyer would probably realize that his client didn't have a leg to stand on. If an attorney was willing to take such a case my bet is he would demand payment in the form of a huge retainer from the plaintiff i. e. the TDR member in advance. He would know that his client probably wouldn't have the money to pay his several thousand dollar fee for his prep work, court time, and to hire an expert or experts to testify in his behalf unless he eventually won the suit and the lawyer would probably know that winning was unlikely.



So how is a guy who knows in his private mind and heart that his modifications to his truck and the way he drove it most likely caused the problem going to handle this? I wouldn't be willing to lay out a $10,000 to $15,000 retainer to hire an attorney who would have a very difficult time winning a lawsuit that might pay $15,000 plus court costs to cover parts and labor to replace a failed engine, would you? I'd bite the bullet and start looking for a replacement engine.



I'm not trying to offend anyone here, I think this is an interesting discussion worth having for the education it can provide.



Harvey

 

[DPKetchum]

I spent SEVERAL years in the First Generation forum. Interesting how it SEEMED it was a bunch of what appeared to be OLDER guys. The PLAY you PAY seemed to be understood and taken to heart. Only after the THIRD Generations were out a while did the PLAY I broke and cry/whine jump up and down stuff started. There was a POLL of average AGE of 3rd generation owners. The age's stated and the SHOCK of no one else is gonna pay for it when 'I"broke it seems to go hand in hand. I might be wrong. It just seems so to me. Ran into this same deal when leaving a Dealer in Downtown Atlanta for one at a suburb MALL in the mid 80s.

 

[PKitzman]

HBarlow,



I think the guy could file the lawsuit and DC would most likely buckle and settle out of court. They don't want to spend big money just to avoid a couple grand repair job. They know must people will not call their bluff and take them to court so they continue to void warranties.



Given the choice between spending $50K in court fees or $5K to repair the guys truck what do you think they will do? Kind of like a big poker game...

 

[HBarlow]

HBarlow,



I think the guy could file the lawsuit and DC would most likely buckle and settle out of court. They don't want to spend big money just to avoid a couple grand repair job. They know must people will not call their bluff and take them to court so they continue to void warranties.



Given the choice between spending $50K in court fees or $5K to repair the guys truck what do you think they will do? Kind of like a big poker game...

I don't know what DC would do but with a case like the one described in the opening post of this thread if I was DC I'd do what DC did, void the warranty. If I was the TDR member with the bad engine I'd do what he will do, buy a new engine. I guarantee you I would not pay a lawyer to file a suit from such a weak position.



In my opinion it is not really a matter of what DC will or should do or what the lawyers might do. How about the underlying issue... ... . personal responsibility? A manufacturers warranty contains clear language. It is not hard to understand. Basically it is a more sophisticated way of saying "you play, you pay. " Everyone knows this and, I suspect, understands it.



Harvey

 

[StLouisMO]

Eloy,



I know you said they didn't think it was a bad injector but the symptoms you describe are exactly what I encountered on the side of the road in South Pittsburg, TN two weeks ago... ... . a lot of blow-by (entire underside of truck coated in diesel fuel AND dipstick showed HIGHER than normal oil level). Just for curiousity, I would recommend checking your oil dipstick level.



Anyway, I had the same situation..... performance upgrades equals no warranty. Had to pay $1,4XX. XX to replace two broken injectors, 2 oil changes, and install an aftermarket turbo (HTB2). Dodge wanted $2,000 for a new factory turbo. I paid $1,345. 00 off E-Bay for the HTB2. Total repair bill out of my pocket including rental car for two weeks ($4XX. XX) was over $3,2XX. XX.

 

[eloy]

well found out today what is wrong with my truck. It has a burnt piston on number 4 cylinder. My mechanic said he did not what would cause that except to much fuel but I never saw my egt's get over 1150 guess it time to build it where it will not happen again thanks every one for your help I know I will never buy a new truck again and if I do Will not do any performance stuff to it till the warranty is up

 

[klenger]

Just keep in mind that even after the warranty is up, if you want to play, you have to pay. But you only have to pay once after the warranty is up.

 

[betterthanstock]

well found out today what is wrong with my truck. It has a burnt piston on number 4 cylinder. My mechanic said he did not what would cause that except to much fuel but I never saw my egt's get over 1150 guess it time to build it where it will not happen again thanks every one for your help I know I will never buy a new truck again and if I do Will not do any performance stuff to it till the warranty is up

Make sure the #4 injector is not leaking. Replace it, don't take a chance at another piston.

You can put ceramic coated (or if I heard one person correctly, they can also alodize ??) pistons, which will take more heat than regular aluminum.

I personally prefer honed injectors rather than a pressure box. Too many cracked injectors after a couple years of high pressure.

 

[JWaugh]

if you have lots of blow by it could be broken rings, this could also cause a miss in the exhaust because that cylinder may not be firing very well or at all. have your egt's gone up? i don't know if you are mechanically inclined or not but you could check the exhaust temps from each cylinder to help figure out which hole is giving you a problem. are there any other signs of problems? leaks around the head extenally etc

 

[archer2500]

The 6. 7 will restore the beef... . hmmmm..... ask chevy and volkswagon about egr's and the issues they are causing,add a particulate trap... . they don't equal reliability at all. There are plenty of 3rd gens making plenty of power and lasting the course. And as always..... you are gonna hear about the failures here... a rash... I think not.

I agree 100%, the hords of us out there that are happy really with our CTD's just dont have that much to complain about. It would be silly to say "2005 Dodge Ram 2500 quad cab 4x4 6spd with 38,000 miles, drives 40 miles a day and WOULD YOU BELIEVE IT... it still runs?"

 

[Troll]

Wow it has been far too long since I was a member last, and this probably is not a great thread to reintroduce myself; however, I think there are some very valid points on both sides of this issue. I was a Transmission/Axle Tech at a local Dodge dealer for about 3 years and before that I was at a local Chrysler/Jeep dealer for about 6. I have seen both sides of the spectrum from crooked dealers to real straight shooters that will bend over backwards for customers.



There is an incentive to try and void a warranty, and its money. But many time this comes at the cost of a repeat/happy customer. Some dont care, some do. Warranty work pays about half of what "Customers Pay" does. Not every dealer pays their techs based on percentage of the labor rate, but some do, and the rest pay by the hour, again warranty pays about 1/2 to 2/3rds of the Mitchells times. I think this could be a contribtuting factor to some warranty declines.



I should have prefaced this by saying I dont care what people do to their trucks, however I can not see the justification in voiding an entire warranty for an after market exhaust, I have many friends at other dealers like Ford, Pontiac... . they have never mentioned to me that they will void an entire warranty for changing your exhaust. (But wont pay for you complaining about a loud exhaust).



The other side of the coin is; if a dealer is being audited from DC they may have no choice but to get "permission" from the D/C Rep. to make any repair, and I do know that engine warrantys for a CTD will send up a red flag in many cases. Just my . 02

 

[amsoilman]

Check thisout!



http://www.granatellimotorsports.com/magnusonmoss.htm

 

[BillDriscoll]

Basically you can have YOUR lawyer meet THEIR lawyer for lunch. Oh BTW, your buying the lunch!!





thought I agree with it, the delership can "hold thier breath longer"!!



BillD

Pensacola