1/2 Ton Diesel Pickup

[dlmetzger]

Cummins is doing development work with Nissan. Look at slide 24 in the link here http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/pdfs/merit_review_2011/adv_combustion/ace061_ruth_2011_o.pdf. Their mule was a 1/2 ton Titan. The engine is a 2. 8L (171 cu-in) 4 cylinder diesel. From TDR Issue 72 Exhaust Note, Cummins is working on an economical diesel engine that alot of people would find valuable and would purchase.

 

[dlmetzger]

Photos of the Nissan mule. Unfortunately, we won't see anything until 2012-2014.

 

[ILIANBG]

What a great idea- a 4 cyl. turbo diesel. I would love to buy one of those. Thanks for the pictures. I really hope they can bring to life something like this.
Ilian

 

[rashwor]

A little Nissan or Toyota with a Cummins; that would be perfect!Oo.

 

[HBarlow]

I can't think of any reason why Nissan, Toyota, Isuzu, Mitsubishi, etc. would have any interest in a Cummins diesel. There have been millions of smaller four cylinder diesel engines manufactured in Japan all over Asia for 40 or 50 years.

Years ago Isuzu and Mitsubishi imported small diesel powered pickups into the US market. The Isuzu was also rebadged a Chevy LUV truck and Mitsubishis were rebadged as Dodges.

 

[dlmetzger]

I can. They want to sell pickup trucks. Yes, there have been attempts to sell diesels in the past (in grew up with a Toyota 2. 0 liter diesel pickup). It got great mileage, but was very severely under powered for towing even a small trailer. I think todays turbo-charged common rail diesels, if given a chance, will sell. As far as going with Cummins, as we all know, they are a good company and have an excellent image, which is important to getting a foot hold in this market.

 

[HBarlow]

Japanese four cylinder diesel engines sold back in the '70s and '80s were non-turbo charged. I don't know if they are building turbocharged four cylinders now but are certainly capable of building them. Evidence Isuzu, Hino, etc. six cylinder turbos currently sold in those trucks in the US market.

Thousands of buyers would be interested in compact or 1/2 ton diesel powered Toyotas, Nissans, etc. It would be very un-Japanese and surprising to me for them to sell a Japanese pickup with an American diesel engine.

 

[rscurtis]

The mid-eighties Mitusbishi/Dodge D50 offered the first turbo diesel. It was advertised as the "diesel pickup with pickup". A friend of mine had two of them, a 2WD and a 4WD. The 2WD was very economical, it would do almost 40MPG on the highway. Unfortunately, they both suffered from premature rust, and his deferred maintenance killed the engines.



The market is definitely there as you have pointed out. Global Vehicles of Mahindra fame estimated the market at 50,000 trucks annually.



Your last paragraph is particularly true, the only thing I would add is if you want to use the Cummins, put it in a decent truck, not the highly over-rated Titan, which is almost full sized anyway.

 

[HBarlow]

I remember the little Dodge D-50s well but didn't know or didn't remember that they were turbo diesels. They were excellent small trucks and looked decent also.

 

[bheiting]

I could understand Nissan using a Cummins. Putting a Cummins in the Rams saved the full sized Dodge pickup line. Cummins brand value is golden in this country.

 

[skr06quad]

We were actually waiting for a smaller diesel truck to hit the market in the US, but gave up and purchased a Dodge with the Cummins. I'm thrilled with the truck we now own, but it is too much for what we need. We tow a trailer and travel with kids, so a reasonably roomy cab is a consideration for us, but the eight foot bed and the 10,000 lb tow rating is overkill for us. Our trailer rarely gets loaded beyond 4,000 lbs gross.

When we looked at the options available to us we determined that the Cummins engine and manual transmission would prove to be the most fuel efficient choice for our needs.

We were very interested in the Sprinter, but leery of the high cost of Mercedes parts over the long haul, not to mention the crazy high purchase price. In Europe the Sprinter is available as a stripped down work truck with manual transmission, manual locks, manual window cranks and manual temperature controls. Very little to break and built for work.

Looking forward to better options when we make our next new vehicle purchase. Hopefully the truck will be available with a manual transmission and a tall final drive ratio for good fuel economy. Hope there is enough of a market for efficient base level work trucks to make this thing fly!

 

[rscurtis]

I remember the little Dodge D-50s well but didn't know or didn't remember that they were turbo diesels. They were excellent small trucks and looked decent also.

They were quite rare, as they were relatively expensive. IIRC, the 4X4 was about $15K, the 2WD was a few thousand less. They were 80 HP, as opposed to the 50-60HP diesels of the competition. The engine really came alive at 2800 RPM and was very smooth as it used Mitsubishi's "silent shaft" balance system.

 

[Cosmo]

The major obstacle here is the EPA - emissions/pollution restrictions on diesels make it cost prohibitive. But what about the Cummins/Powerstroke/Duramax?? Those are considered heavy duty (for personal use anyway) trucks with gross weights that place them outside the passenger car emissions realm.

Subaru has a diesel outside the North American market, and people would buy them if they brought them over, but apparently they don't meet EPA requirements. We'll probably see a hybrid Subaru before a diesel here.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see them, but right now it just doesn't make $$ sense. When you look at the extra cost of the HD diesel engine, trans, the emissions equipment, the maintenance, etc. it's really hard to justify versus a gas engine. Keep in mind we're talking about a light duty truck - hauling/towing heavy loads isn't the goal (if it was, then a 3/4-1 ton would be more appropriate). HD diesels right now, with emissions equipment intact, are only realizing a minor fuel economy savings versus similar gas trucks. The longevity of EGR daily driver trucks is suspect - GM apparently says 150k miles before overhaul for theirs. If they don't get significant fuel economy savings, and they don't last significantly longer, and they cost more up front, and they cost more to fix... why?

 

[MikeW.]

I remember the little Dodge D-50s well but didn't know or didn't remember that they were turbo diesels. They were excellent small trucks and looked decent also.

I had the last '85 D-50 4x4 turbo diesel sold new in Phoenix, they quit importing them in '86 so the parts dried up. Great little truck and I wish I still had it.

 

[rscurtis]

VW, Audi, and Mercedes don't have any problem selling diesels here. As far as cost is concerned, you could buy two diesel Jetta's for the price of a Chevy Volt. They'll run circles around it and beat its HWY FE as a bonus. You also get the benefit of their renowned resale value. Which would you rather have? As far as environmental benefits are concerned, they're questionable at best, as the Volt's battery is likely charged by the 1 billion tons of coal burned every year for power generation.

 

[surfbeetle]

I'm not too excited about this... as an owner of a 2006 Nissan Armada, I really don't have a good opinion of Nissan. Currently I need a 39. 00 part for the HVAC that is buried a thousand dollars worth of labor inside of the dash. The A/C is stuck on and clicks incessantly. Then there's the radiator that cracks for no reason, the brake bolt that Nissan can't seem to find for my truck and I had to source it separately from a fastener supply store myself. There's the cracked exhaust manifold and leaking auto trans cooler fittings. All of this before 70,000 miles. Just check out the titan and armada forums and see what I mean. It would be great to get a diesel in my Armada so the fuel economy would be better, but it would still be in a Nissan.

 

[Cosmo]

I understand that the Germans sell diesels here, but we're talking about a half-ton pickup, not a family sedan. Double the weight behind the 2. 0 VW diesel and shape it more like a loaf of bread and see how the fuel economy is.

Remember the Mahindra? 2. 5 liter turbo diesel, 2500 pound (ish) payload, and fuel economy not much better than a gas Tacoma? Higher fuel costs, DPF, EGR, DEF, all the same costs and issues that the 6. 7 faces...


Would you spend $4k more for a diesel engine in a 1500 that wouldn't last any longer, cost more to maintain, have similar payload/towing capacity, and got marginally better fuel economy as a hemi powered truck?


Surfbeetle - nearly everyone runs plastic radiator end tanks now, and it's a common issue - cracking along the crimp.

 

[Yo Hoot]

After so many false starts I wouldn't hold my breath. What's wrong with an American truck with an American diesel?

 

[rscurtis]

I understand that the Germans sell diesels here, but we're talking about a half-ton pickup, not a family sedan. Double the weight behind the 2. 0 VW diesel and shape it more like a loaf of bread and see how the fuel economy is.



Remember the Mahindra? 2. 5 liter turbo diesel, 2500 pound (ish) payload, and fuel economy not much better than a gas Tacoma? Higher fuel costs, DPF, EGR, DEF, all the same costs and issues that the 6. 7 faces...





Would you spend $4k more for a diesel engine in a 1500 that wouldn't last any longer, cost more to maintain, have similar payload/towing capacity, and got marginally better fuel economy as a hemi powered truck?





Surfbeetle - nearly everyone runs plastic radiator end tanks now, and it's a common issue - cracking along the crimp.

I wasn't referring to their FE, I was pointing out the the emissions hurdle has been crossed. Naturally, a PU is not going to get the same FE as a VW.



As far as the Mahindra is concerned, the EPA FE rating was very poor, but we will (probably) never find out what real world FE would have been. They claimed 30 MPG, but we'll never know at this point.



I agree with your comment on the 1500, that's not where the market is. There is virtually no benefit there and there is the risk of that segment stealing sales from the HD market. That risk is mitigated with a small 30+ MPG PU, as they are two completely different animals.



Regarding your comment to SB, go to a 7# cap and reduce the stress on your radiator. I've had one on my signature truck and old Mercedes for years with no issues at all.

 

[HBarlow]

... ... ... I agree with your comment on the 1500, that's not where the market is. There is virtually no benefit there and there is the risk of that segment stealing sales from the HD market. That risk is mitigated with a small 30+ MPG PU, as they are two completely different animals. ... ..... QUOTE]

I generally agree also. I don't think the market is there and a diesel 1/2 ton would cut into Ram-Cummins sales.

If our government was bulldozed and piled in a tall heap with the EPA on the bottom many cars and trucks could become much more economical to buy and operate and some would be diesel-powered.