Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) 12V vs. Grand Prix GTP In A Race

[ProMac1K]

What does a 12V need to beat a stock Grand Prix GTP in a 1/4 or 1/8 mile race? I'd like to go after this person in a GTP that supposedly thinks they're fast. A website that I found says the 1997-2002 GTP can do a 6. 8 sec 0-60 and a 15 sec 1/4 mile. Based off of counting my head, I pulled off a 0-60 somewhere in the 6 sec range. Don't know how accurate that is. :-laf But what do I need to outrun them? Certain hp range or parts? Any stories? This is something that I feel needs to be accomplished!!



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97 3500 12V Auto

 

[CumminsAholic]

Build a lot of boost off of the line and race to 70. I had a bonneville ssei, supercharged, never did race my truck, they both got about the same mph in a certian distance, but I think I could get there quicker with my truck... 1/8 mile you could easily win... 1/4 you better build a lot of boost and get a good hole shot unless you got power.

Corey

 

[cmills]

Just make sure you have 4 wheel drive and some snow on the road and you will be fine. thats what I did when racing my dad in his girlfriends Grand Prix, they are pretty quick for a stock passenger car though.

 

[ProMac1K]

I hope to dyno if I go up to ND, but I don't know if I will have much spending money for more parts after the trip up and back. I was given an estimate at 400 HP right now, that is just an estimate.



Only vehicle that i've actually raced was a pre-94 Dodge 1/2 ton 2wd with a Edelbrock top-end massaged 318 and a 727 trans. That was when I wasn't smart enough to use 4wd, and before I rebuilt the trans with DTT components. Beat him easily both times, but it was fairly close until I reached lockup with the stock trans, then I was gone. The first time he stopped after I started really pulling and complained that his engine was choking out.



I'm pretty sure this is going to be some time in the spring and summer, definitely after this month. Also, I don't want to sound like some street racer wannabe, because i'm not. :-laf I'm just out for comparison, not necessarily bragging rights. That's not important... ...



Can anyone come up with a combination of parts, just for comparison in relation to HP?

 

[DTroy]

7500 pounds with 440 horse will get you 14. 991 and 90. 924 in the 1/4 mile.

 

[ProMac1K]

That's just what I need then as a Bonneville SSEi (heavier?) does the standing quarter in 15. 8/89. 6.



Any way to convert 0-60 times into 1/4 mile times? Probably not accurately I suppose.

 

[DTroy]

The best way to figure out what your truck would do in the 1/4 without actually running it, would be to figure it out from the hp and weight.

7500 with 215 hp would get 19. 03 at 71. 61 in the trap.

(the figures I've quoted are for rear wheel hp)



If you want to build up your truck you can go with injectors, plate, and a larger exhaust housing. Changing the plate is a fairly quick and easy way to get that warm fuzzy feeling.

 

[ProMac1K]

I've got the injectors, trans, and the pump (hopefully) taken care of. I'm not sure what the pump is capable of putting out for hp numbers, but it's been on the Bosch bench last summer.



What does a 2nd Gen 3500 X-Cab 4x4 truck weigh approximately?

 

[DTroy]

They're about 7400-7500 with a driver. Stock tires and steel rims. Spare included. No passengers and minimal tools.

 

[ProMac1K]

Thanks DTroy with helping me on weight and 1/4 mile calcs!



My TCI calc shows 430 HP in a 7500 pound vehicle to equate to a 15 sec 1/4 @ 90 mph. Now what are they basing this on? There has to be some variables like this calc probably not for diesels.



Now what do we need for parts?



People, don't be bashful. Anyone with first hand experience or opinions?

 

[TurboTweaker]

Tmass,

I ran a 1/4 in 15. 406 @ 89 mph. and from the 2 dyno runs ive made i'm around 340hp. now i may be wrong about my hp cuz both dynos gave way diffrent #'s but teh time slips dont lie. And i can take a GTP in a 1/8, I've done it at the strip(grove creek) in Grove city. so i'd say build 10 psi and the launch in 4x4 and you will be fine.



The Fat Kid

Andy

 

[ProMac1K]

Thanks for bringing this thread up Tweaker!! I was beginning to give up on it!



I'd like to check out Grove City's strip sometime. I think my brother is racing his mod sled up there this summer. I think you remember him from Muncie.



That is a pretty fast time for a 15. 4 ET and for your HP. Nice!!



Well, if no one else is going to reply , I think I will just run it with what I got. I might go after a Water/Meth kit first and maybe a Hybrid or rebuild kit. I'm worried about EGT's. Are they a concern in a 1/4 mile race?

 

[JKouzez]

wow it just so happened i raced my co worker who had an 01 gtp i ( this was back in the summer) left him by about 2. 5 car lengths both times we raced. I believe he had a K and N cold air intake and pulleys, but i could be wrong back then my truck had a 6 plate, afe, 3 gsk, timing to 15. 75 and 370s with a transgo shift kit and a converter that actually held when i flipped the switch which i think made the most difference, and we only race to about 80. the fastest i had gotten out of my truck with that set up was a 14. 86 at 93 MPH with a horrible 2. 4 60 ft. Hope this helps you in your quest.

 

[ProMac1K]

Thanks, that helps a lot! I've got about the same setup, except I have a tuned 180 pump with the 6 plate, GSK, 370's, BHAF, 18° Timing, and a full DTT trans. Do you think the lockup switch was the deciding factor on your run? When did you flip the switch? With my wastegate arm adjusted to far open, with a plugged and shot actuator, I almost feel more power, or acceleration, out of lockup. I can't get the RPMs up easily in lockup with the lag from the bad wastegate setup, which is odd because the 6 plate and GSK should fuel more on the top end. I think based on what you said about beating that car and the time you listed, it should be no problem with my current setup if I get this wastegate fixed. If you're saying that 60ft was bad, you sure made up for it then the rest of the way. Did you have any EGT problems at all? Would you recommend running up to a certain speed, or a 1/4 or 1/8th?

 

[TurboTweaker]

Tmass come run at Grove creek this summer so we can beat on the ricers :-laf . you should be real close if not a blow out in racing a GTP. NO FEAR! anyways, yea come racing.



The Fat Kid

Andy

 

[biggy238]

The GTP?

Thats all that car wil run?

I have a friend with a 2001 or 02 Honda civic SI- the bread boxes, that will run 14. 95 any time with nothing done to it but an intake. He ran a 14. 6 and broke out one time, so I think with a driver it could run 14. 50's.



You all are sure a GTP won't run faster than a 15 in stock form? If this guy is running fairly often along with his mouth, he might actually be learning how to drive that car. Tack on an extra 100 HP just the put him in the ground :-laf

 

[ProMac1K]

Those numbers were for a '00 Bonneville SSEi. Found another site that lists the '00 GTP as being able to do a 6. 8 0-60 and 15. 1 1/4 mile.



This person is just a lowly college person who was spoiled by their parents back in high school and still probably is. :-laf My friend tried running the GTP once with his old Chrysler Fifth Avenue that had a 318 and an auto in it. It used to be my uncles car!! He said he was neck and neck with the car and they just waved and took off. He's the one that's egging me on, but I want to show 'em anyways. It's not like they have a lot of experience, just a few fun highway races here and there, and a lot of smack.



Andy, you got yourself a deal on Grove City! I can't wait!! What do you all see ran up there? I'd like to build a drag truck or a pulling truck after I get this one paid off. A pulling truck would be great but I feel it wouldn't be as fun as a fast, driveable truck. Test drove a '05 CTD with the 48RE. Nice truck but I wasn't sold since I didn't get to have any fun with it because I wasn't serious about buying. The drive was boring since the sales lady rode with. I wasn't impressed. I like the 2nd Gen 24Vs like Perry's truck but then you still have the auto that needs rebuilding and you have the fuel related issues. The 12V is still good IMB.

 

[JKouzez]

well now i have a 4 plate 16 cm housing and 191 dvs and i can peg my pyro very quickly but before i struggled to hit 1400 as far as the switch goes it is up to you if you want to run it there are some risks but yes the switch makes a big diff. on a stock truck it will take about 3 seconds off the 0-60 time. i flip mine before i take off because it wont engage till the transmission switches to second.

 

[ProMac1K]

Are you at 344 HP now? I don't know what I get for EGT's but I know it's over 1500, that's all I can tell. I'm thinking that I don't need the lockup switch with this trans since it has an aftmkt TC. When launching, I can't see lockup too long before it pegs the gauge, and i've been there several times. Even some without knowing it. How long can you stay in the throttle with the gauge pegged? I wish there was a thread on that.

 

[ProMac1K]

Just found a guy on the net with a '97 GTP that ran a 14. 05 @ 98 MPH with just a slip-in K&N. I don't know guys.....