2003 Dodge 5.9 diesel NV5600 knock/tap/clatter, Ideas?

[Tuesdak]

I can see the noise still being there. However the good head and new stock valve springs made it worse. You can hear it idle slightly in the cab and clearly at all RPM's now including unloaded at idle revving up.

Shutting off the #6 injector makes it go away. #6 and #3 injectors were swapped with no difference. #6 injector shutdown stops the noise. (#3 injector shutdown doesn't stop the noise.)

The shop even talked with the local UOA lab I used over the copper spike of 274 with all other values normal. Assumed it was oil brand change.

So wrist pin going out? Stronger springs making a tappet problem louder?

 

[Mathes308]

So when the #3 injector was put in the #6 hole it still knocked.
Did you kill the 3 injector while it was in the 6 hole?
Other than that, wrist pin would be a good guess.
With the head and oil pan off its easy to pop the piston out and have a look.

 

[Tuesdak]

Yes killed the former #3 in the #6 hole.

Appears to be a exhaust leak at the V band clamp for the turbo.

Loaded some the shop can hear it in the oil pan and exhaust.

At 1700 RPM with the #6 rockers off it still makes the noise. Tried ATF trick for stuck lifter and will send in another oil sample to see if anything shows up.

Tragedy struck as their mechanic was in a wreck and that likely took out his Dodge Diesel truck with someone pulling out in front of him. He is alive but injured. Details were fuzzy.

 

[AH64ID]

ATF trick for stuck lifter? I am not sure that can do much on a solid tappet. These motors do not have hydraulic lifters.

 

[Mathes308]

Ha.

How about wrist pin?

 

[Tuesdak]

Last oil sample with only 100 miles on it and 2 quarts of ATF. Miles on report is since last change, but, was changed due to head work and no sample taken. Copper?

 

[Mathes308]

I'd point to wrist pin.

 

[Tuesdak]

Assuming that's what it is - what would cause it to fail? Plugged oil squirt?

Shop wants to put 500 miles on it as the oil lab said 100 miles isn't telling us anything. They also had a 6.7 truck in there with only 20K that lost a wrist pin and it was knocking way louder. (Play to play what warranty...) They will remove the exhaust brake and try a normal elbow just in case that's the cause.

 

[Mathes308]

Don't think running it more is going to fix anything, it may show more cooper wear on the analysis but it's pretty much wasting time and adding to the chance of total failure.
Tell them to lift the cab off, yank the head, pull the piston.
Just because the 6.7 is noisier doesn't mean anything.
Or if you think they will stand behind the damage caused by running it more, run it.
Excessive heat has always been a problem with the #6 hole, could just have started to fail, once started it will take itself out.

 

[Tuesdak]

Shop noted white smoke in exhaust after 'loading' the engine hot. Still working on 500 miles and taking a second look at vband clamp/PXRB.

 

[Mathes308]

I'd spend a day piling miles on that thing so the shop will get their ***** in gear.

 

[Tuesdak]

Picked up truck to put some miles on it. Noted it slobbering on the #6 at the exhaust manifold toward the firewall. Maybe 'running it' advice allowed this to show up? This is with a used AFE manifold on it.

Better camera for clearer sound on videos:
Only clatters with the fuel on. Take foot off throttle and the noise is gone.

#1

#2
https://youtu.be/zIjR3KgiRxI

 

[Mathes308]

My vote is bad wrist pin cracked a piston on #6

 

[HDR]

get a long screw driver or a pry bar and with your ear on it and try to hear where it is coming from.

 

[Tuesdak]

I get grey/white smoke on a hot engine while taking off. Revving the engine also generates some smoke. It's not coolant best I can tell. Just loading the clutch will bring the grey/white smoke on after I unload the engine.

I will have to ask if they checked rail pressure for a possible FCA problem otherwise with the carbon build up I am suspecting injector issues. Maybe loosing the pilot injection from carbon coated tips? Installing/removal of the injectors made them worse (noisier)? We verified the injector numbers to all be "503's" by numbers on the solenoids. So they are the correct units for the year. The injectors were not tested as we thought the head was the problem. Shop doesn't think the noise is the 'injector rattle' I read about others having.

Noise is 100% fuel related at this point. Fuel off = no noise. Weird double tapping chatter noise if I bring some fuel on while coasting (Just a specific very light throttle spot while slowing down or letting off the pedal), constant knock at steady fuel like the videos show, and less knock at full fuel higher RPM. No knocking when the fuel is off at any RPM including when exhaust brake is on.

Noise is said to be in exhaust and oil pan. I hear it the worst in the center and rear of the block on the freeze plugs at idle. Dyno would be a better place to track the noise down.

Oil sample shows us nothing - a good thing I hope. Other than the RTV used to tack on the valve cover gasket...

.

 

[Mathes308]

All those noise complaints sound exactly what a bad wrist pin sound like.
You could send the injectors to someone like the diesel guru and have them tested and cleaned.
Wouldn't be surprised if the noise was still there though.

 

[Tuesdak]

The Good News:
Finally found it! :--) I am in shock that it was missed with the head work.

Yeah #6 so bad it has witness marks!

The Bad News:
In this far to notice it.
That WAS the original head off the engine.
#1 has a sleeve.
Aftermarket piston in #1
Installer must have mixed up the front and rear with the pushrods...
Rings done while sleeve install work was done were never loaded enough to seat properly.

 

[Mathes308]

Wow.
So where did the brass/copper come from?

 

[sag2]

It is a little hard to see in the photo but that rod bearing does not look so good for 130k. I would assume you are going to have them ring it, replace the bent push rod and get it going again?

 

[Tuesdak]

Total Seal Gapless rings, all bearings, Cummins piston(s), and pushrod set. (This much trouble/noise I'll do the entire set of 12. No telling for sure where the other pushrod for #1 wound up and I don't want to chance it.) Waiting on measurements to see if it has to go oversize.

Injectors have to be tested for warranty on rebuild.

I assume it ate some debris when #1 let go as there is a lot of debris impacts in the bearings. Yeah, bearings look like he!! for 120K. Not wear though. With this I can't say where the copper came from - bearings or the oil cooler washing. Maybe it knocked some impacted debris loose with heavier use like towing I did and spiked the oil?

So did the engine just drop a valve seat? Run hard towing the PO's 5er in 6th? Or just a lack of oil changes?

The annoying thing about this, or maybe a good thing to the toughness of this engine, is this engine could have gone a lot more miles like it was just using excessive oil. Oil is cheap. Replacing the bent pushrod was all that was needed to shut it up. The clatter of the oil cooler valves under light or a moment on de-accel (posted elsewhere) is what made me think the noise had changed for the worse and started this entire mess.