2004.5 Rear Rotor Removal Re: Bad Wheel Studs And Nuts

[MJWenrich]

I am trying to remove the rear rotor on my 2500 American axle truck. I have the caliper off and the three clips that retain the rotor but cannot get the rotor to budge. I tried a dead blow hammer against the rotor face but am reluctant to try more aggressive methods. There is no good surface to hit. I am going on the assumption that the rotor will come off without removing the axle. The wheel rotates freely and no contact can be heard from the e-brake. Would anyone have an idea of how to proceed.



The reason for all this is that the lug nuts and studs are bad. I have owned the truck since new and air tools have been only used to remove the lug nuts. The tire shop I use does the same. Each time I have rotated tires the lugs have been more difficult to get on and the last time one of them snapped off. I want to change out all the studs/nuts, front and rear. I found out that the rear studs are only available from Dodge and they list for $19. 00 each. I was given a discount but it still cost over $200 just for the rear. The fronts were available thru NAPA. A Dorman product @ $7. 00 each. Nuts thru them at about $1. 50. Times 32 the total is over $350 so far.



This is obviously getting expensive and I would like to save the labor costs. Thought others might want to know about this problem as someone with a 2007 called the NAPA store right after me with the same problem.

 

[Lumpy]

You probably need to back the e brake shoes off via the star adjuster wheel on the back side of the rotor. It's accessible through the little slot with a rubber plug on the end of the axle tube. Other than that, you have everything off that could possibly keep it on. Does the rotor move at all? you should be able to wiggle it some. Might be rusted to the hub also. Then you just have to pound them off.

 

[TKoontz]

i have had to replace 3 on my 04. get some good rust solvent and spay it real good and let it have time to work. in my case i still had to hit it with a sludge hamer to get it loose. did not have to hit hard just needed the mas to get its attention. the studs come out real easy.

i to replaced them with studs that fit the front. they touqed up just fine to 135 foot pounds.





2500 o4 smarty jr. s&b air intake and horn air bags piller pod 4 in strait exhaust

 

[EDankievitch]

There's some rust around the hub. If you take a torch and heat inside the wheel studs. You need a large rosebud type torch you want to get heat into the break rotor hub fast and not the axle then give it a wack from the back side it will come off.

 

[MJWenrich]

Thanks to all who responded. What I found was a consensus of the replies. There was a little rust around the hub and overnight, with penetrating oil on them, I was able to get the rotors off. It still took some pounding with the soft headed hammer but they finally moved. The studs came out easily and I found several that were stretched. Some were okay and likely did not need to be replaced but with all the hammering of the air gun removing these I just did not trust them and replaced all. Going to do the same on the front as soon as I can figure out how to keep the rotor from rotating when I put new studs in. Some of the new studs needed a little thread cleaning by running the new nuts down with some Kroil on them. After that, they went on and off with no problem.



The problem actually was the lug nuts. Somehow, the threads had become distorted and even on studs where I had difficulty getting lug nuts off, new lug nuts went on just fine. Surprised the heck out of me. If it were not for the stretched studs, this would have been a cheap fix. When the new nuts begin to give me a bad time, I will change them right away. I also found that the recessed area around the studs of the aluminum wheels is getting deeper. Makes me wonder if the 135 lbs of torque is doing this or the previous difficulty with the nuts. More than likely the nuts.



There was no problem with the e-brake adjustment. Once I got the rotors to budge, they came off without any further problem. In the future this is going to be hand tools only taking these lugs on and off.

 

[Gonzo 1066]

There is a reason that torque wrenches were invented. Aparently someone along the way was using excessive torque with the air gun. I have seen this often, some kid in the tire shop has no idea he is stupid and ruins someones nice car or truck.

 

[mwilson]

There is a reason that torque wrenches were invented. Aparently someone along the way was using excessive torque with the air gun. I have seen this often, some kid in the tire shop has no idea he is stupid and ruins someones nice car or truck.

It is a hard and fast rule here that all wheels on cars, trucks, trailers, RV's etc. be torqued to specs every time.



We use an air wrench gently, then torque.



We have a form that the customer initials after the install that states the wheels need to be rechecked and torqued again after 100 miles. That has saved us a lot of trouble.





So don't be afraid to insist that the tire repair facility use a hand torque wrench instead of an air wrench to finalize the tire/wheel installation, also tell them you want to watch it be done.



If they don't like that idea do yourself a favor and take it somewhere else.



Mike.

 

[rscurtis]

Some may disagree, but a little anti-seize compound goes a long way toward preserving threads. A ball joint press is also an easy way to install studs as opposed to trying to pull them in with the lug nuts.

 

[MJWenrich]

Just a little further info. I found out that my neighbor took her 4-wheel drive 2003 truck to a Dodge dealer out of this area last year and they replaced all the lug nuts, telling her there is a problem with these. She was suspicious, but now it looks like they were right. I took a closer look and the nuts are swedged/closed in where they come in contact with the wheel. That's where the trouble began. I also heard two others recommend the anti seize. I'm doing that now. And BTW, no one has air gunned these nuts on and a torque wrench has always been used. I just did not know what was happening and at the first hint of resistance, I will change the lug nuts next time. Others are having this problem and there probably should be a TSB on it but then Dodge would have to admit the problem.

 

[mwilson]

Just a little further info. I found out that my neighbor took her 4-wheel drive 2003 truck to a Dodge dealer out of this area last year and they replaced all the lug nuts, telling her there is a problem with these. She was suspicious, but now it looks like they were right. I took a closer look and the nuts are swedged/closed in where they come in contact with the wheel. That's where the trouble began. I also heard two others recommend the anti seize. I'm doing that now. And BTW, no one has air gunned these nuts on and a torque wrench has always been used. I just did not know what was happening and at the first hint of resistance, I will change the lug nuts next time. Others are having this problem and there probably should be a TSB on it but then Dodge would have to admit the problem.

Thanks for mentioning that, I am thinking a few of the front nuts acted a little funny the last time I rotated the tires.

My tires have always been removed and replaced by me since the truck was new and have never been over torqued by an air gun.

I will have a handfull of new nuts ready when I rotate them again.



I hope others see this thread.



Mike.

 

[jhenderson]

I use torque sticks on my1/2 air gun. They come in a kit with 5 different torque values.
They look like color coded extensions,and flex at a preset torque value so the gun can't over tighten fasteners. I have double checked with a hand torque wrench on several occasions, and they have always been within specs.

 

[HHhuntitall]

I've overtorqued mine regularly, and checked them with a torque wrench to make sure they were up to or over spec..... but I use a lube on my threads, first to clean them, and then then for torqueing. Some don't recommend that, but it works for me..... but as to the distorted threads, it sounds to me like either the studs or the nuts were soft. I had some years ago that would go on fine, but taking them off took forever. On inspection, you could see the ends of them were pulled down from the taper on the rim, which caused them to crimp onto the studs..... if the studs were soft, I could see how they could stretch, which caused your threads to enlongate, and when the nuts are removed, they basically have to re-cut the threads like a die, eventually the soft metal coming loose into the nuts, ruining both..... it's part of the inspection process where you or a shop you trust should go over it carefully.



I tell all my customers that they should recheck the nuts torque every 100 miles, and I put a reminder on the window anytime we install new rims or tires, be it a Dodge Ram 2500 or a Peterbilt 379. It's the only way in today's world to avoid the liability. I need to have that printed on my invoices so it's initialed when they pay... .....

 

[mwilson]

I've overtorqued mine regularly, and checked them with a torque wrench to make sure they were up to or over spec..... but I use a lube on my threads, first to clean them, and then then for torqueing. Some don't recommend that, but it works for me..... but as to the distorted threads, it sounds to me like either the studs or the nuts were soft. I had some years ago that would go on fine, but taking them off took forever. On inspection, you could see the ends of them were pulled down from the taper on the rim, which caused them to crimp onto the studs..... if the studs were soft, I could see how they could stretch, which caused your threads to enlongate, and when the nuts are removed, they basically have to re-cut the threads like a die, eventually the soft metal coming loose into the nuts, ruining both..... it's part of the inspection process where you or a shop you trust should go over it carefully.



I tell all my customers that they should recheck the nuts torque every 100 miles, and I put a reminder on the window anytime we install new rims or tires, be it a Dodge Ram 2500 or a Peterbilt 379. It's the only way in today's world to avoid the liability. I need to have that printed on my invoices so it's initialed when they pay... .....

Send me a quick e-mail and will scan you copies of the forms that we use. The first is for shop use, the second one with the Goodyear logo is for the tire and recap department's use.

It might help you design what you want for your invoices.



-- email address removed --



Mike.

 

[HHhuntitall]

... email sent! Thanks, love to look at 'em.

 

[mwilson]

B

... email sent! Thanks, love to look at 'em.

On the way home, will send them when I get there.