2006 engine damage - Dodge will not warranty

[pwr2tow]

The law came about because of dealers and manufactures rubber stamping the voiding of warranties just because an aftermarket part was used, even when the after market part had nothing to do with the failure.

If your talking about the moss magnuson act it came about so that companies could not monopolies their product. In other words make you buy replacement parts only from them and then charge whatever they want.

 

[john3976]

If your talking about the moss magnuson act it came about so that companies could not monopolies their product. In other words make you buy replacement parts only from them and then charge whatever they want.

Are we not saying the same thing? The law prevents the dealer from forcing you to use only in this case DC parts in order to keep your warranty in tact.



Example if you are using aftermarket valve covers and your intake manifold gasket is leaking the dealer/manufacture can not refuse you warranty service on the leaking intake manifold.



Now if you have aftermarket valve covers and you have a valve cover leak, then the dealer/manufacture are not obligated to warranty the leaking valve cover gasket unless it is a problem with the head and not the aftermarket valve cover in which case the dealer/manufacture are once again obligated to provide you with warranty service for the repair.



The fact that you have an aftermarket part or product on your vehicle can not be used to just automatically void your vehicles warranty.



The dealer/manufacture is required to provide proof that the aftermarket part or product is in fact the cause of the problem at which point they can deny you warranty coverage on that repair.



This rubber stamping of denying warranty just because they have found an aftermarket product or component on your vehicle is in violation of the law.



You should look into SEMA (Specialty Equipment Manufactures Assoc. ), they have a lot of good information about aftermarket parts and what the deal is with warranty.

 

[nps]

This rubber stamping of denying warranty just because they have found an after market product or component on your vehicle is in violation of the law.



You should look into SEMA (Specialty Equipment Manufactures Assoc. ), they have a lot of good information about after market parts and what the deal is with warranty.

Not true when the drivetrain warranty is voided when the aftermarket part increases the power output of the engine (as in this case).

You should look into SEMA (Specialty Equipment Manufactures Assoc. ), they have a lot of good information about after market parts and what the deal is with warranty.

They have a vested interest in getting you to buy their parts and making you believe that the M-M Act is your 'guardian angel'. Try to get them or any of their members to represent you in court while trying to defend against the car maker - they won't help. Edge was one of the first aftermarket vendors that was honest and ethical about their product and its affects on warranty coverage. When I bought my EZ I had to sign an acknowledgement stipulating to the fact that my EZ may void my warranty.



The original poster has said he knows the rules - play and pay. Do some stock trucks have injector problems - yes, but the modded ones have even more problems.



Like pwr2tow said, the M-M act was stimulated by oil and air filters, not chips. It's the unethical chip makers that jump on the M-M bandwagon and say 'no problem - we won't void your warranty'.

 

[JensenC]

But to use the excuse that a mod was on the truck therefore you have lost your warranty is bogus, most mods improve the truck and the reliability of the truck, now when you start stacking boxes and making 500 plus horse power and jump the torque up to 900 plus foot pounds you know you are going to break stuff and that is when the manufacture would be justified in voiding the drive train warranty.



A 50 Horse Power upgrade should not even make these trucks break a sweet let alone tear something up. Even at the 90 Horse Power level they should be able to handle that.



All of the manufactures look for any excuse to deny warranty coverage these days, even if the problem is not due to a mod they try to use it as an excuse any way.

Are you an DC engineer? A diesel mechanic? Who are you to say a particular mod improves reliability on a vehicle where millions of $$ were spent engineering all the components to work together? You are not an expert and shouldn't make uneducated statments about what you think would improve vehicle reliability and what stresses a vehicle drivetrain should be able to handle.

 

[john3976]

Are you an DC engineer? A diesel mechanic? Who are you to say a particular mod improves reliability on a vehicle where millions of $$ were spent engineering all the components to work together? You are not an expert and shouldn't make uneducated statments about what you think would improve vehicle reliability and what stresses a vehicle drivetrain should be able to handle.

Well gee, lets see I did at one time work on Mack's, Kenworth's, Peterbilts, Internationals, Ford's, ect. ect. , so yes I think I know a little bit about what these trucks should be able to handle power wise.



If DC, Ford and GM have built these trucks to be at their limit from day one then they have failed in their design jobs.



You can in fact buy many mods that improve over what the factory designed, the intake systems are improved by the aftermarket, there are far better turbos sold by the aftermarket then DC, Ford and GM have used in these trucks, the replacement transmission pans and rear end covers are vast improvements over the stock units. The plastic intercooler I have is not as good as aftermarket units.



Transmissions built by Suncoast, DTT, ATS and others are big improvements over what we get from the factory.



You see when DC, Ford and GM build something they also look at the cost of items which means that you don't always get the best parts available.



Magnuson/Moss was not brought about solely for oil and air filters as you want to imply.



Magnuson/Moss was brought out for any and all replacement parts for an automobile, and yes sometimes those replacement parts do improve over what the factory gave you in better performance. It also requires that the manufacture be able to prove that the aftermarket part is what caused the failure, if they can show that was the case then no they are not obligated to warranty that repair or part as the part was not from them. The law does not give the dealer/manufacture the right to just look at your vehicle, see an aftermarket part on it and just deny the vehicle warranty.



If these trucks can't handle an extra 50 to 90 horse power then they are way under engineered, I would suspect that DC, Ford and GM have built in a pretty good safety factor to ensure these products live, now when you start adding 200 plus horse power, 900 foot pounds of torque and treating every stop light like you were at an NHRA starting tree, then yes you are going to break things and no DC, Ford nor GM will be obligated to warranty what you broke.



The reason the makers of these boxes tell yo to un-install them before going in to the dealer for diagnostics is because the DC, Ford and GM scanners are looking for a set standard in the computer programs and their equipment does not know how to handle the programmers or boxes settings, the dealers scanner thinks something is wrong and gives wrong information to the tech.



Most boxes and programmers will also tell you that if your vehicle starts to run bad to remove their program first, if that fixes the problem then the problem is within their program and not the vehicle. If the problem persists then the problem is not in their program but something else on the vehicle.

 

[woodsrat]

[Dont they have to PROVE what caused the damage to not warranty work? I know its a lot like our legal system and you have to prove yourself innocent, but I think its worth a shot to argue. [/QUOTE]

Yes they do have to prove beyond doubt that your aftermarket parts caused the problem. But they also know that most people are not going to get a laywer to fight them and take the chance of losing more money.

 

[john3976]

[Dont they have to PROVE what caused the damage to not warranty work? I know its a lot like our legal system and you have to prove yourself innocent, but I think its worth a shot to argue.

Yes they do have to prove beyond doubt that your aftermarket parts caused the problem. But they also know that most people are not going to get a laywer to fight them and take the chance of losing more money. [/QUOTE]



Sometimes it is worth dropping $75. 00 to $100 just to have an attorney send a letter to the dealer letting them know that you are serious, that will get the ball rolling because DC has to make a decision at that point, can they really prove the aftermarket item really caused the failure?



If they can't then they will buckle under real fast just to put it behind them, as it would cost them far more in losing a court case then to just fix the problem and move on.



In court the excuse of well something was there but its not now and well we just think that is why there is a problem. The judge would spank them pretty good if that is their defense.

 

[diesel0904]

yea i am sure the service manager is bs about the reps just because he does not want to do the warranty work and figures he can make more money off the person and make his bottom line look better to his boss so then he can get his big bonus on production and being cost effective at the end of the year. i have been running bully dogs powerpup since 5k and even on crazy larry before i bought injectors and never had one problem and am at 46000 still with the stock clutch at over 500 horses

 

[TowPro]

The zone reps stop by the dealerships all the time. My bet is the dealer looked at the truck and relized its broke big time. then had to call Star for help with the diagnostics. Because these trucks don't break like this all the time, star notifies the zone rep to look at the truck.



From what I understand, the ECM has counters in it, number of restarts, %idle time, max RPM, etc, etc. When you reprogram the ECM with the dodge tool, or a downloader (or remove the downloader program) these counters are cleared. Dodge sees that the counters were cleared X amount of time ago, then they check there records to see if a Dodge Tech reflashed the ECM. No record in the dodge service computer points to an aftermarket reflash. That's how they knew.

 

[john3976]

(Try to get them or any of their members to represent you in court while trying to defend against the car maker - they won't help. )



There have been companies that have stood behind their product when it failed and cost someone big dollars for the repair, two companies come to mind right away, Wix and Fram both stepped up to the plate when their product failed and paid for the engine repairs their products failure resulted in.



If you think that DC, Ford, or GM is going to lower the cost of their vehicles just because they are denying warranty claims you are living in a dream world.

 

[john3976]

The zone reps stop by the dealerships all the time. My bet is the dealer looked at the truck and relized its broke big time. then had to call Star for help with the diagnostics. Because these trucks don't break like this all the time, star notifies the zone rep to look at the truck.



From what I understand, the ECM has counters in it, number of restarts, %idle time, max RPM, etc, etc. When you reprogram the ECM with the dodge tool, or a downloader (or remove the downloader program) these counters are cleared. Dodge sees that the counters were cleared X amount of time ago, then they check there records to see if a Dodge Tech reflashed the ECM. No record in the dodge service computer points to an aftermarket reflash. That's how they knew.

Still not a reason to just deny the warranty, what if the injector is just bad?



BullyDog says their Triple Dog with the version updates of 2. 5. 5 and later do not reset the computer.



The Smarty folks also say their new product will not reset the computer.



I have also read in these forms that the key cycle resets every 50 cycles so that would not be a good measure to go by if that is so.

 

[Foil Freak 1211]

Not really, because mixed in with these Numbers are trucks that have been modified.



Look at your major polls they sample around 500 people, the only difference is they are calling random people where in hear as I stated it is a Dodge form so it will be on the biased side, but I think it is a fair look at the problem, Dodge has had injector problems with these trucks even when stock, their excuse is always you idle to long and they refuse to correct the bad injector.



The reason I feel this is a fair look even biased is due to the fact we are only interested in Dodges, not Fords and Chevy's.



Further you don't need to hear from people who have not had problems all you need to do is find out how many trucks with the Diesel engine Dodge sells each year and you can figure out from that how many are having problems and be pretty darn close.

I really disagree with you on this. Sample size in this case would be determined by the number of owners of 3rd gen trucks, it has nothing to do with the number of respondants on other polls. The information in that poll is interesting, but is purely anecdotal in that respondants were not chosen at random. You can't get accurate results without random sampling.



Are there some problems with injectors on some 3rd gen trucks? Probably, but I'm sure that there is not a part on the truck that has been problem free for every owner. To imply that the injectors are major problems in these trucks is inaccurate.

 

[nps]

If you think that DC, Ford, or GM is going to lower the cost of their vehicles just because they are denying warranty claims you are living in a dream world.

When did I say that? I think that you are the one hallucinating.

 

[diesel0904]

i have had my truck to the dealer for ecm problems one after having the power pup for 20,000 miles and putting it back to stock and they never found a trace of anything i have a freind that works at the same dealer but was not the one working on it and said the person working on it found nothing about the ecm was ever messed with since the truck was made.

 

[nps]

i have had my truck to the dealer for ecm problems one after having the power pup for 20,000 miles and putting it back to stock and they never found a trace of anything i have a freind that works at the same dealer but was not the one working on it and said the person working on it found nothing about the ecm was ever messed with since the truck was made.

Sounds like you got lucky. How long ago? DC has of recent been training techs on things to look for. Good chance they weren't looking when you took it in, or they didn't have to call Star for assistance on the problem or authorization for ordering the parts.



They did the same thing on the 2nd gens with tapped pump wires. Guess it is a little more obvious to the BOMBer that you are doing something when tapping into the pump wire versus plugging in a box, but everyone understood that tapping the wire meant no warranty.

 

[DPKetchum]

Back a long time ago on Datsun 280z's folkes used resistors in the wires to increase injector flow. Then 280 and 300Z turbo cars,a BB or a small orfice tube in the waste gate lines. Found them all the time. When a trans,engine,diff was broken and these items found. NO WARRANTY. Game is still the same. One reason was MOST of the time when a engine,trans,diff was broken in these auto's THATS what was found. VERY rare on a stock Datsun/Nissan. Very rare. Nothing much has changed in over two decades.

 

[diesel0904]

i brought the truck in about a little over a month ago but my freind that worked there said to my service writer about 6 months ago he hear the truck is extremly fast for a land yacht but he told me the person who works there and said dont let them know what was done and shortly after that my service writter quit and i was stuck with the one guy he told me to look out for and he gave me the hardest time and told me if they find anything i would have to pay out of pocket and my warranty would be voided.

 

[RJOL]

... Well gee, lets see I did at one time work on Mack's, Kenworth's, Peterbilts, Internationals, Ford's, ect. ect. , so yes I think I know a little bit about what these trucks should be able to handle power wise... .



&



... Magnuson/Moss was brought out for any and all replacement parts for an automobile, and yes sometimes those replacement parts do improve over what the factory gave you in better performance.

Thanks for your expertise... Now just what part are you replacing when you install an aftermarket chip, high performance turbo, bigger injectors, etc, to your CTD to increase its stock HP???



You keep this up and you will have yourself convinced that you can do anything you want to your truck and Chrysler will have to stand behind you...

 

[john3976]

Thanks for your expertise... Now just what part are you replacing when you install an aftermarket chip, hight performance turbo, bigger injectors, etc, to your CTD to increase its stock HP???



You keep this up and you will have yourself convinced that you can do anything you want to your truck and Chrysler will have to stand behind you...

Never said that, if you put on a replacement turbo that puts out the same specs as stock and the new turbo blows DC will not warranty that aftermarket turbo, you will need to go to the maker of the turbo for the warranty, what some are saying is the fact you put something aftermarket on your truck that DC is justified in just voiding your warranty even without inspecting the problem, the law is very clear in that the aftermarket part must be the cause of the problem if not then DC must warranty the repair.



I do my own oil changes, I use fleet guard filters, if one of those filters bursts and I lose all of my oil while driving down the road and the motor starves for oil resulting in it locking up, I do not expect Dodge to cover it under warranty, I do expect Fleet Guard to step up and cover it for their defective filter.



The above is just an example and at no time have I ever had a fleet guard filter fail.



Some of you are trying to read to much into all of this.



If any aftermarket part is the cause of the problem then Dodge, Ford nor Chevy is required to cover the parts or repair under their warranty, however they can not just look and say hey I see an aftermarket part, void the warranty, they have to show that the aftermarket part did in fact cause the problem.



In the example of the Datsun/Nissan given above showed that the repair problem did not appear on stock vehicles only on the vehicles that had that modification.



In the case of Dodge and injectors there are plenty of trucks that are stock with injector problems, this is not a case of a down-loader causing all known injector problems.

 

[john3976]

A good example of an aftermarket part that is better then factory would be a ball bearing turbo vs the factory turbo, there are direct replacements that are better built and will perform better then the stock unit, do I expect Dodge to warranty the aftermarket turbo if it goes bad, no, you need to contact the maker of that turbo.



Now if you go into the dealer with a miss and they see the replacement turbo and the miss has nothing to do with the turbo, DC can not just void the warranty because you have an aftermarket turbo. They have to diagnose the miss and if they can show that the turbo is causing it then they can deny the warranty work and make you pay, but if the turbo has nothing to do with the reason for the miss, then they can not void the warranty.