2010 clutch help, will not disengage

[GCroyle]

At our shop we turn down "basket cases" and machines that "three of my buddies, and two other shops" have taken a swing at already on a daily basis. You almost always end up with a black-eye.

What about the Will you install my parts question?

I need some campfire time today.

 

[TFucili]

What about the Will you install my parts question?

We used to be more open to that if they were OEM parts or stuff we trusted, but generally turn that away now, too. We will no longer mount tire not bought here either. I am not going to wear out my tire machine so they can buy from some internet ho. They'll have to download the tire mounting app for their smart-phone.

 

[Bill Stockard]

At our shop we turn down "basket cases" and machines that "three of my buddies, and two other shops" have taken a swing at already on a daily basis. You almost always end up with a black-eye.

Yes, we had a similar policy in our shops. A case like this usually ends up as an expensive disappointment for both the customer and the dealership. I can remember one case where our farm/industrial tractor service manager reluctantly agreed to take in a "basket" case. It was a small I-H dozer with the power shift transmission removed from the machine, disassembled, and with the parts in a wood crate. Another inexperienced dealer had attempted to repair the transmission, but couldn't. The customer was desperate and was willing to and agreed to pay by the hour to have it repaired. Fortunately, our service manager and the tech who did the work were experienced with power shift transmissions in I-H crawler tractors. It was a successful rebuild and the only time I remember a "basket" case job in our shop.

Bill

 

[rscurtis]

A question comes to my mind. If the crank spacer was required for the original clutch, what as done to insure full mesh of the starter pinion when using that clutch?

 

[sag2]

You can see the teeth only meshed about 1/4 of the ring gear tooth on the DMF. So removing the spacer should have put it back to where it should be.

 

[South Bend Clutch]

And now the rest of the story.

Actually Peter nailed it way back in post 10. I asked them back then to verify there was no spacer. I stopped by today again on a test drive and the truck was still on the hoist. We were comparing again and my partner got on the phone with one of Peters guys who again pointed out that some if not all AM clutch set up's to replace DMF require a spacer on the back of the crank. As we were talking the tech said "but if there was a 1/2 spacer the starter would not engage the ring gear. Damn, another small clue missed! I look at the ring gear and the teeth are already starting to wear on the leading edge where the starter drive was only making about 3/16 contact with the tooth. That's when I said pull it ALL the way apart so I can see for myself. Sure enough, the spacer I asked about was there. The tech said "that had to be OEM as look how nice it fits." So that also explains the 1/2 having to be cut off the bearing retainer and the over stroke of the slave cylinder. Thanks to Peter and Gary for all their help on this one. They really gave some good input and pointed out everything we needed to know. It's great to have vendors here that are always willing to help.
In defense of the technician, this was the first DMF clutch he had done, and I have to agree, the spacer fit nicely to the flex plate, and looked like it should be there.
The flex plate bolts they had were too long so we could not bolt it all up to confirm, but it appears to be the problem. I'm sure the customer will be glad to have his truck back, and the dealer has a lot of duplicate new parts lying on the bench.
If you have not seen this part before, it is about 4" in diameter, and the flywheel bolts go through the eight holes. It pilots on the crank, and the flywheel pilots on the spacer.

View attachment 91171

Not to kick someone in the teeth but selling 2500 diesel clutches a month we heve seen just about everything that can go wrong go wrong. We have personally dealt with this very same situation over a hundred times. The spacer is a precision fit we wouldn't make it any other way lol. Case and point...needed longer crank bolts, spacer. Clutch disc hub hitting the retainer, spacer. Hydraulics pushing to far, spacer. And finally the starter barely hitting the ring gear of the flywheel all indicates a spacer was left on the crank. Sorry it took so long to get this resolved but it is now and hopefully we all learned something from this experience.

Peter

 

[Tuesdak]

At our shop we turn down "basket cases" and machines that "three of my buddies, and two other shops" have taken a swing at already on a daily basis. You almost always end up with a black-eye.

This may be the best choice for your shop biased on experience level of employees etc. The flip side: Now literally your next door neighbor is currently working on my truck and finding the mistakes of the last shop as they have the experience to do so. I hate paying for a job twice. However if the shop fixes a problem that others can't they earn a repeat customer and recommendations by word of mouth.

If you are being asked on a daily basis perhaps you should look further into the issue to see if there is a common overlooked failure. Looks like the need/demand is there and a pricing structure for this is appropriate. A second pair of eyes or experience can fix the issue. Experience comes from mistakes. Experience to fix something is worth money and cheaper in the long run. After the first hairball the customer will think of you first before "Uncle Bob".

I did learn that the best place to start for a clutch job is a shop that carries South Bend or aftermarket brand of choice. At least they would have seen one before I hope!

Dealers like the OP used also have use for "stock" vehicles and that use is specifically "experience" of some weird failure that affects a specific model. Like a 1995 GM350 boiling over with the temp gauge reading normal because the water pump has a balance flow issue and 1/2 the V8 is overheating - just not the temp gauge half. (Replace water pump slam dunk because they did it 1200 times already... and Uncle Bob wouldn't know this.)

 

[sag2]

Well the truck is fixed and down the road, but we still are not sure what was wrong with this truck. Joe Donnelly turned us on to the starter spacer, and I was able to finally find it in StarParts. Installed it and still didn't work. So the dealer called Cummins and they found a starter spacer about half as thick as the Chrysler part and the starter worked. So once the crank spacer was removed the clutch all worked with the OEM parts, but still can't explain why the starter didn't mesh with the ring gear correctly. At that point the service manager said who cares, just want to give the customer his truck back. I didn't ask if they charged him anything. I suspect they didn't.