by Alan,
I know all the rebuttals commonly associated with the Cummins vs. the others so please spare me! 500,000 mile motor and better mileage and high torque low rpm operation. The dyno does not lie and tells the truth and that is that Dodge is behind right now... . accept it guys!"
First a quick note... as far as I am concerned, anyone can drive any truck they want to, and they can even get into a pis*ing match regarding who's truck has the most speed, most towing power, loudest stereo, best exhaust sound, or whatever they want to compare...
That being said, HB's quote of AC sheds light on where the roots of this particular argument are, because the quote contains "facts" that are not actually facts, despite AC'S claim to the contrary, as well as his knowing all of the "common rebuttals" of CTD drivers.
So here goes...
While the new Ford engine/truck may well have higher Dyno numbers, and while AC is correct in that "dynometers do not lie", it is ALSO true that the person driving the truck ON the dyno, as well as how the truck is tuned and fueled, intrinsically affects the Dyno numbers. This is why Dyno numbers, despite the popular myth of their being an "absolute" statement about HP and Torqu, actually have an accepted, though often unmentioned, pecentage error rate of anywhere between 2% and 5% depending on what kind of engine is being compared. My own 3 run dyno sheet runs by an excellent, local diesel/speed repair shop proves this variability... same truck, same fuel, same driver different numbers by 3% within a 30 minute time period. Hell, I'll bet even engine temperature affects dyno numbers, right??
Since I have NOT actually seen the Ford 2011 and Dodge 6. 7 dyno numbers to compare RPM to HP, I do NOT know where the actual differences between the 2 trucks Torque/BHP/RPM curve lay, BUT it is always TRUE (at least in the past) that V8 diesels, with their smaller displacement per cylinder and higher cylinder count, have ALWAYS had higher BHP at higher RPMs then a comparably displaced 6 cylinder diesel, BUT they have ALSO always had LESS torque at lower RPMs, which is, as HB accurately points out, an intrinsic disadvantage for towing loads, or more accurately, for starting out towed loads. I am not even sure what the physics equation is between the realtionship of cylinder displacement, cylinder count, RPM and BHP, but rest assured that the equation is out there, and not even the engineers at Ford can breaks those laws, although they might
let the marketing department spin the numbers a little so that they can sell more trucks to help pay the wages they just earned by spending what is likely tens of millions dollars developing a brand new engine design! :-laf
It is possible and likely that a stock Ford 2011 may be a speedier off of the line UNLOADED then a stock Dodge, but that in and of itself does not make it a better truck, unless you simply want to go fast somewhere without anything behind you, which IS what alot of truck drivers use their trucks for, BUT if you are pulling a load like HB is talking about, or even carrying a load like Wingate is doing, then likely the CTD and not the Scorpion is for you, based on PROVEN low end torque and PROVEN reliability. EVENTUALLY, the Ford Scorpion might well go on to prove itself in the next 5 to 10 years as a capable and RELIABLE tow truck, but PLEASE remember, we are talking about the 2011 Ford and it is still 2010, right??
I would never buy the first year of anything!! That's why I bought my 2005 used in 2007, instaed of buying the newer 6. 7 CTD. Well now I DO sometimes wish that I had the stock extra power of the 6. 7 (though I often temper that wish with the extra mpg's that I DO get with my 5. 9L (it is NOT much, but it is there... Oo. )) but until the details were ironed out with the sooting issues, DPF etc. I was mighty glad,that I was driving my 5. 9 version. And while HB and I and others on this forum may well be biased towards Dodge, MANY drivers (don't know the actual percentage, but from reading anecdotal forums it seems quite high) had serious reliability issues with 2 of Fords last attempts at mating diesel engine to Ford truck.
OK, all that being said, I myself do not even care about the dyno numbers, (though I DID race my truck against a yellow Lamborghini that pulled out just in front of me on the eminently raceable Hwy 128, near where I live, and did keep up with him on the curves, and mostly on the straights, and I DID shave almost 10 minutes off of a 40 mile drive
and I DID live to talk about it)) but since having discovered the reliability of the CTD, as well as its suitability for towing, I would not BUY , or even considering buying another brand engine, until it is FLEET PROVEN to have gone 500k miles of REAL world testing, not 500k on an engine stand (or 10k miles on 50 individual trucks :-laf:-laf)) I mean, it took Cummins and Dodge almost 2 years to correct the hardware/ software problems that they encountered with different drivers under differnet driving conditions when they simply upgraded the ever reliable 5. 9 to a slightly more powerful, 2010 emissions approved version... Ford is dealing with an ENTIRELY NEW concept engine in terms of design AND manufacturing. And even though I HOPE that they get it right (even HB agrees that competition is a good thing), it is FAR too early to tell if they actually HAVE gotten it right, so I find AC's claim of the Scorpion being a 500k mile engine simply premature and unproven. While it IS a fact that there are MANY 300k plus CTD's out there AND you can STILL work on them yourself if that's what you want to do... Just look any TDR issue under the mileage badge section to get a sense of it. I do NOT believe or even imagine that there are that many high mileage 6. 0 Fords out there, and there COULDN'T be that many high mileage "Scorpion" engines out there, becuase, like I said, it's just WAY too early... no one has had the chance to yet drive the Ford engine probably even 100k yet. So what if Ford's lab engine has done 500k on a test stand under unloaded conditons??? And so what if several trucks have been driven around like Wingates?? That IS important, for sure, but not even close to providing enough meaningful information about real world driving to decide to spend $50k on a 10 year investment. Of course, if you can afford to buy a new truck evry 2 or 3 years, then what the hell?? Like I said earlier , I sure as hell am NOT going to spend $50k on a truck/engine combo that felt good to test drive, but has been out on the road in fleet quantity for less then a year ... that simply does NOT meet my criteria for common sense.
Anyway, feel free to ignore this or rant away at it... just my . 02.
Attention: TDR Forum Junkies 
But my truck has been upgraded with a TC lock-up controller and I can lock my convertor down to 2nd gear all the way to as low as 20mph. In one of your ranting rebuttals to me,you suggested that I cannot understand the true tq a Cummins is capable of because I own the wimpy 47RE
