Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) 24v gone at 14,000 miles

[whiteknight]

My dad has a 2001 2500 that according to the dodge dealer blowed an oil filter gasket.



They were heading to church this past Sunday and got about 2 miles from home when mom heard (she was driving) a hissing noise and thought it was the radio. (dad likes AM) About the time they realized that it wasn't the radio, the engine started making a knocking noise and she said that she pulled of the highway and when she let off the accelerator the engine died. She said it happened so fast that she didn't notice what the oil pressure was doing or if there were any idiot lights on.



They called me at home and I went to see what happed. The engine was covered in oil, the underside of the hood had so much that it was running down and over the fender. We couldn't tell were it was coming from exactly so we called for a tow to the local dodge dealer. Dad said they never saw any smoke but could smell the oil when he got out to see what happened.



Today the dealer told dad that it had blown the oil filter gasket and had locked-up the engine. Not covered by warranty.



Dad had changed the oil about 4,000 miles ago was getting ready for an oil change this week so the filter had been on there a while. He had gotten the 4/2/1 kit from Geno's and I think he had a Fleetguard strata-pore filter on it. I just e-mailed Geno's for information on contacting cummins. Hope they will cover it or find the real cause to prove to Dodge.



I did a search here but didn't find anything that sounded like anyone else with this problem. Poor dad if its going to happen to anybody it would be him. Hope thats not an indication what the rest of the week is going to be like!

 

[Sled Puller]

The best filter Cummins makes, it lasts 4000 miles, and then suddenly blows?

Seems odd to me.



I'm sure stranger things have happened, but I would certainly want a Cummins guy to look at it.



Keep going to higher Dodge/ Cummins reps, somebody will take care of it.

Polite and stern, keep the faith!

 

[1tuffram]

I Agree with Sled Pluller. Fleetguard filters are on DC's list of approved oil filters, so either DC or Cummins/Fleetguard should be eating this one, not your dad!



Like said be polite but firm and just keep going up the ladder until this is dealt with. I would expect no less from a dealer than to say "sorry no warranty coverage on this, it was your fault" Since this is going to be a high cost repair I would bet they will make this an up-hill battle the whole way, hoping you will just drop it and go away.



PS: Hope your dad kept a maintenance log and some reciepts to prove he had been keeping up on the maintenance, cause I'm sure DC will be looking for an out by saying the truck was improperly maintained.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

One thing that could have happened is that when he changed the oil filter the last time that the gasket stayed stuck to the filter head, then he installed the new filter with the gasket there as well. I've had the gasket stay stuck to the filter head when changing mine. I check every time to make sure the gasket comes off with the filter every time. Just one possibility.

 

[Sled Puller]

Steve,



I thought about that, but to go that kind of mileage with nothing abnormal, then all at once?

You would think it would have leaked at least a little bit before catastrophic failure.

 

[Sled Puller]

How many have read this and went out and checked their oil filters?

 

[whiteknight]

I thought about the old filter gasket theory, but I think it would have been leaking long before now. I remember me and dad looking under the hood with a neighbor here while back and didn't notice anything abnormal then. We went back to the house and looked in the driveway were it had been parked and there was no sign of any leaks there either.



I checked the filter while we were waiting for the wrecker and it was tight, I couldn't budge it with my hand.



I did read on here about the 24v engines producing high oil pressures and causing oil filter ruptures and such when the temp is cool until it warms up some. It was cool that morning so that might have had something to do with it I don't know.



We'll see what happens.

 

[Pit Bull]

I would make one phone call to the regional guy. Tell him you have your receipts and you used the recommended product. If he does not want to help you I would go see a lawyer. I would then have the truck taken to the nearest Cummins shop for an autopsy to determine what failed so your lawyer will know who to sue. Good luck.



I would tell the dealer that you plan on doing some PR for them with the local news papers, if they don't want to stand behind their product.

 

[Texas Diesel]

Steve St. Laurent is exactly correct. This was a problem with the old VW Rabbits (or so I was warned), the old gasket would adhere itself to the block and the new filter and gasket would blow out sooner or later, not uncommon for it to wait till the oil pressure spiked ( cold start or cold high RPM run ).



I hope DC decides to cover it, Bosch put compression tabs on the VW oil filters because so many were having the old gasket stay on the block and VW paid for new engines.

 

[Snow man]

If it was double gasketed it would have blown out long ago,IMO,when the engine was cold,and oil pressure was at its highest,is when it will blow,and not usually after 4K miles,although it is possible. This is a big$$ repair bill,so if owner is at fault,I wouldnt expect the dealer/DC to eat it,since they didnt do the oil change. The filter needs to be retrieved ASAP,its evidence,to be evaluated/inspected by an independent shop/engineer/lawyer,in case it is defective.

 

[Pit Bull]

Originally posted by Steve St. Laurent

One thing that could have happened is that when he changed the oil filter the last time that the gasket stayed stuck to the filter head, then he installed the new filter with the gasket there as well. I've had the gasket stay stuck to the filter head when changing mine. I check every time to make sure the gasket comes off with the filter every time. Just one possibility.

Steve this has to be a one in a million shot. There is no way that an oil jockey at the dealership or other service facility would notice this or check it. Based on the fact that 90% of owners do not change there own oil, these things would be blowing up all over the place Not saying that it did not happen to you but it has never happened to me in over 30 years of oil changes.



Plus, the oil filter would have to of been installed not very tight. They would also have to show you an oil filter with the gasket missing. This would then give you the ammo you needed for the oil filter company to pay for the damage. If this is what ended up happening that is real bad luck Bad filter, not installed tight and a bad dealer not wanting to help. WOW

 

[Thomas]

Filters recommended by D/C

 

[WMann]

I did an oil change on a chevy step van with a 350 gas engine many years ago. It was dark out and we were leaving for Michigan as soon as I completed the work. Being in a hurry combined with poor lighting, I didn't realize that the rubber gasket had stuck to the engine. I filled up the oil filter, smeared some oil on the gasket, threaded the filter on and tightened it as tight as I could with two hands. I started the van, got out, walked around front and got down on my knees to check for oil leaks and this thing was spewing oil all over the place. My point is with the amount of oil pressure these Cummins engines have there is no way there could have been two gaskets on that filter for more than ten miles before it started spewing oil everywhere.



I have two friends that also have 3500's with Cummins in them. I do all of the oil changes on their trucks and my two 3500. Ben calls me one day and says (my truck has ten thousand miles on the oil and would I change it?). We all use Mobil Delvac 1 and Mobil M1403 filters and change the oil every 5000 miles, usually. He gets to my house, I raise the hood, look around for leaks, none. I go to take the oil filter off and it was loose. I mean I could have taken one finger and pushed on the side of the filter and I would have been able to spin it off. I could not believe this thing wasn't leaking like a fire hose. When I put filters on these trucks, I fill up the filters, wipe oil on the gasket, clean the flange on the engine where the filter gasket meets up and then I tighten up the filters with a filter wrench. I have always tightened the filters this way as I do not think tightening the filters with your hands gets the filters anywhere near tight enough.



The only thing I can figure is that between five and ten thousand miles the gasket on the filter lost its ability to hold it shape, or something.



I always inspect the gaskets on oil filters very closely as to try and avoid having one blow out. Murphy's law states that if one does blow out, it will be the knocking sound in the engine that lets you know the game is over because he will make sure that you aren't watching the oil pressure guage when this happens.



I just thought of something. I know most guys here know that the oil pressure guages in the newer trucks are programed not to read below 40 psi, I think that is the right number. Dodge has had so many oil pressure sending unit failures that they programed the computers not to let the guage read below 40 psi in order to put a bandade on this problem. Example: When I start my 2001. 5 ETH in the mornings, as soon as the engine fires the oil pressure guage jumps to 40 psi and then sits there for a few seconds until the pressure comes up. It does the same thing after an oil change, only it takes longer for the pressure to come all the way up.



I would bring a lawyer up to speed on this if it goes that far. One could argue that if the oil pressure guage actually read out the correct oil pressure and wasn't programed to lie to you, this disaster could have been advoided.



Sorry for going on and on



Wayne

 

[homeka45]

Did the double gasket deal on my dad's toyota. Checking for leaks after starting her up it was pretty obvious something was wrong. Leaking like crazy. Good luck to you and give 'em hell.

 

[Texas Diesel]

Originally posted by WMann



I would bring a lawyer up to speed on this if it goes that far. One could argue that if the oil pressure guage actually read out the correct oil pressure and wasn't programed to lie to you, this disaster could have been advoided.



Wayne

Before DC reprogrammed my oil pressure guage to be worthless, mine would "chime" to warn me of low pressure. I wouldnt mind a class action against DC for such blatant stupidity.

 

[Sled Puller]

Originally posted by Texas Diesel

Before DC reprogrammed my oil pressure guage to be worthless, mine would "chime" to warn me of low pressure. I wouldnt mind a class action against DC for such blatant stupidity.

"blatant stupidity"



Is the understatement of the year. Are you guys sure they did this? Does Cummins know about it?



It sounds like Sesame street, "Lets start all the guages in the happy range, so people don't get upset when something goes wrong!":--)

 

[Joe G.]

In order to ease my worries about low pressure happening without my noticing I rigged marine pressure alarm switches on the oil and fuel pressure. If either one goes below 10 PSI a large red light turns on. Hard to miss. I don't trust gauges to alert me soon enuff.

 

[Texas Diesel]

Read my post here:



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=31105

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

I was just mentioning something that could be a possibility. The way the gaskets are set into a channel on the stratopore filters I find it very hard to believe that one could could blow out. Well over half (close to 3/4) of the gasket is inside the channel on the oil filter. I would make sure to get ahold of that filter and gasket BEFORE THEY THROW IT OUT to verify what the problem was. There was a problem with the filters designed for the 12v blowing out on the 24v several years ago but any filters you got through Geno's would have definately been the new design. There were a couple of guys on the site back then that had their filters blow out, but I've never heard of anyone having a gasket blow out unless they had two on there. I also think it would be unlikely for that to be the problem after 4,000 miles but that seems more likely to me than the gasket blowing out of the channel in the filter.



DC has in fact set the newer computers such that if your oil pressure sending unit goes out that it will still show oil pressure on the gauge as long as some other parameters say everything is ok. I got that information through a performance vendor here that has close contacts with Cummins. What he told me though was that it will show 60 psi if the pressure sender goes out. That is one reason that I have a padlock on the data connector in my truck so that they can't reflash the computer without my knowledge.

 

[whiteknight]

I talked to dad tonight and he has talked to Fleetguard and they want the filter sent to them for inspection. They said that they could tell if it was tight by how compressed the gasket is and be able to tell if it failed and and cause of the failure.



My dad is retired from a Ford dealership. He serviced cars all those 30 years there. (oil changes, lube, etc. ) He said in all that time the only cases of and oil filter gasket blowing was caused by what I think he called a bypass valve in the oil pump that stuck causing the oil pressure to go too high. In fact he told me that he had noticed the oil pressure gauge go to the high side almost to the read mark and then drop back to normal. He also talked to a Cummins shop and they told him they would suspect the oil pump as the culprit.



I guess we'll see what fleetguard says and go from there.



P. S. I like this spell check.