Attention: TDR Forum Junkies 
Please recognize the link I've included is where I first started out with the subject/title here and I'm attempting with this new thread to streamline and remove some of the variables from the other "linked" thread. https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/funky-starting-after-injector-install.270368/page-7 I strongly recommend reading the below instead of going to the linked thread as; 1 the linked there'd is like 135 posts at present and 2 there are some of the posts that are just conversation and not really related to the issues I'm now having = it starts fine but stalls when put into gear.
PLEASE READ BELOW BEFORE LOOKING AT LINKED THREAD ABOVE - thank you for your thoughts
I also plan to link this (new thread) to the other (funky start) if what I'm trying to do works.
Here goes, hope this works:
On Edit: everything worked as I hoped it would.
In advance, sorry for long post but I've been trying to figure this out since like October last year and I've spent a ton of money trying to do so, this "ton of money" wasn't just thrown at it - it was for things = transmission and VP that would have become issues anyway. Transmission friction materials were well below stock limits and the reverse band was down to the metal and the clutch pack discs were close to being gone (I saw all old parts), it had over 130k since it was DTTed back around 03 and I've never been accused of having a light foot. The original VP I replaced in 03/09 after it died, so I figured I got 10 years from the original and this one was pushing 12 years. That being said, I want everyone to understand I've never run had and put away wet (I've run it hard mind you) and I've taken loving care of it since acquisition using only the best parts and materials.
I'll start out with a preface of where problems started and what has been done to bring everyone up to speed on where I'm at presently.
Preface:
05/01 purchased truck stone stock with 75k and left it that way until trans started slipping @ 139k. I've never hauled heavy with it, never, heaviest things I've hauled; 1- 10+ years ago a load of bricks (bump stops were 1" away from touching, it's an 8800 GVW, BTW) and 2- 4 years ago a U-Haul car carrier with Daughter's 01 Sable to Seattle area, the truck loved the light workout!
1- Sometime on 2003 & 130k the original trans was given a full DTT rebuild, no billet shafts just the awesome DTT master rebuild.
2- Within a few months of the trans being done it was now safer to throw power to it. EDGE Comp and F-1 (now FDI) Mach 1.8 injectors - it rolled like 395hp and 800tq.
3- In 2006 I added a set of Mach 5 injectors (200hp+) and an HTT QD 64/14 turbo - at Spring Fling 2007 (Gettysburg, PA) it rolled 525hp and 1000tq. That was enough for me and from that point on it was just regular upkeep.
4- Fast forward to October 2020, I figured since the truck now had 255k on it and the Mach 5s had been in since 2006, as well as there was more fuel haze coming from the exhaust at idle than ever observed it was time to send the injectors back to FDI and have them done over. They were brought up to 5.5s.
5- I installed the freshened up injectors. This is where the trouble began. Immediately after installation the truck would stall almost every time it was placed into gear (from P to R or D and/or from N to D or R) sometimes the idle violently drops from 850 to 500 and then just as violently jump back to 850. But at least it would stay running and as long as I went directly from D to R it wouldn't stall, sometimes it "almost" would (850 to 500 and back).
No way was I going to live with that. I've always placed trans in N at stop lights to help keep trans temps at bay and now if I don't leave it in D it'll stall for sure when I place it in gear.
Here we go, take an intermission if you wish...
What has been done post freshened up injector install and stall problem began:
Where I'm at as of Monday 4/5/2021
Thank you all in advance. I really need my truck and just can't drive the "Stall Mobile" as it is now and feel safe.
Joe McCaz
PLEASE READ BELOW BEFORE LOOKING AT LINKED THREAD ABOVE - thank you for your thoughts
I also plan to link this (new thread) to the other (funky start) if what I'm trying to do works.
Here goes, hope this works:
On Edit: everything worked as I hoped it would.
In advance, sorry for long post but I've been trying to figure this out since like October last year and I've spent a ton of money trying to do so, this "ton of money" wasn't just thrown at it - it was for things = transmission and VP that would have become issues anyway. Transmission friction materials were well below stock limits and the reverse band was down to the metal and the clutch pack discs were close to being gone (I saw all old parts), it had over 130k since it was DTTed back around 03 and I've never been accused of having a light foot. The original VP I replaced in 03/09 after it died, so I figured I got 10 years from the original and this one was pushing 12 years. That being said, I want everyone to understand I've never run had and put away wet (I've run it hard mind you) and I've taken loving care of it since acquisition using only the best parts and materials.
I'll start out with a preface of where problems started and what has been done to bring everyone up to speed on where I'm at presently.
Preface:
05/01 purchased truck stone stock with 75k and left it that way until trans started slipping @ 139k. I've never hauled heavy with it, never, heaviest things I've hauled; 1- 10+ years ago a load of bricks (bump stops were 1" away from touching, it's an 8800 GVW, BTW) and 2- 4 years ago a U-Haul car carrier with Daughter's 01 Sable to Seattle area, the truck loved the light workout!
1- Sometime on 2003 & 130k the original trans was given a full DTT rebuild, no billet shafts just the awesome DTT master rebuild.
2- Within a few months of the trans being done it was now safer to throw power to it. EDGE Comp and F-1 (now FDI) Mach 1.8 injectors - it rolled like 395hp and 800tq.
3- In 2006 I added a set of Mach 5 injectors (200hp+) and an HTT QD 64/14 turbo - at Spring Fling 2007 (Gettysburg, PA) it rolled 525hp and 1000tq. That was enough for me and from that point on it was just regular upkeep.
4- Fast forward to October 2020, I figured since the truck now had 255k on it and the Mach 5s had been in since 2006, as well as there was more fuel haze coming from the exhaust at idle than ever observed it was time to send the injectors back to FDI and have them done over. They were brought up to 5.5s.
5- I installed the freshened up injectors. This is where the trouble began. Immediately after installation the truck would stall almost every time it was placed into gear (from P to R or D and/or from N to D or R) sometimes the idle violently drops from 850 to 500 and then just as violently jump back to 850. But at least it would stay running and as long as I went directly from D to R it wouldn't stall, sometimes it "almost" would (850 to 500 and back).
No way was I going to live with that. I've always placed trans in N at stop lights to help keep trans temps at bay and now if I don't leave it in D it'll stall for sure when I place it in gear.
Here we go, take an intermission if you wish...
What has been done post freshened up injector install and stall problem began:
- Contacted FDI. Don said typically when this problem happens its due to a weak VP. I explained the Mach 5's had been in the truck with present set up (DTT, Edge, 64/14 turbo) almost forever and the VP was replaced with a BOSCH unit in 09. He said, I understand and typically we've seen this (weak VP) problem only when someone has went from stock to bigger injectors on the same pump. He then said the only other thing they've seen do this is when the torque converter is a bit too tight. Once again I explained the trans was done years ago and shortly thereafter I started with their 1.8s and a few years later the 5's, adding - outside of too much fuel haze for my comfort the truck ran tip top until I installed the freshened up injectors. [Sorry, folks but I just have to say "the folks at FDI - Don and April - are stand-up, honest people that are willing to help figure thing out to the best of their ability and stand behind the products they produce". Sad but rare these days...] They suggested, since over the years I've had several "in/out" of the injectors that it was possible one or more of the o-rings on the fuel tubs cracked, split or otherwise wasn't sealing and causing internal (to the feed area in the head) leakage that couldn't bee seen externally. I figured it was plausible and thanked them for their time and advice.
- New injector tube o-rings and seals for injectors. Ordered from Cummins new o-rings for tubes and new washer seals for injectors (I had in the past been able to reuse the washer seals, but with the problem I was having, even though there was less than 200 miles since new injectors I decided not to chance) and installed the new rings and washer seals. Outcome - Still stalled...
- Check you work and... Even though I've done many, many injector installs over the years (friends and such as well as mine) I know that when something becomes familiar you may become too comfortable and miss something. I went over the whole process, not physically wrenching, looking at the engine and reviewing the procedural steps taken, with the FSM in-hand. I found nothing wrong with install process.
- Let's check all electronic connections, grounds and could the Edge somehow decided to crap out? I cleaned all plugs in the engine compartment = PCM, ECU, and etc. (with electrical contact cleaner and blew dry with air) before unplugging and then inspected (with magnifying glass and bright light) all pins and receiving slots, to find no corrosion or weakness, recoated with dielectric grease and plugged back in. On to the grounds, once again all in the engine compartment, not just "visual" inspection physical tug at them look for looseness or corrosion (none found) and "then" just for piece of mind I removed fasteners brass wire brushed them and the loop at end of wire as well as mating surfaces, once again no problems found and "just because" I took the steps to ensure they were "all good". Now on to the Edge - basically disconnected it from the plug and power wire to fuse, (OMG what a friggin "dog" it was without the Edge). Outcome - Still stalled...
- Let us not forget that the truck ran awesome as it ever did and "never, ever, ever stalled, ever, before installation of freshened up injectors"...
- Back to chat with FDI.. They expressed their sympathy and offered the only thing they could do was to build me a new set of Mach5's and send to me. Get this "at no extra charge" just remove, install new and return. By this time it was freezing cold and snow wasn't too far off, so I set up to have the trans gone over by the guy who built it back whenever and asked April to ship injectors to him. Yes, I had decided to actually let someone else give it a crack and not mentioned previously, the only person that ever wrenched on my truck (outside of me, alignments, installation of new tires and state inspections) was the trans builder.
- Installation of newly built injectors... We (trans builder and me) set a plan to move forward with, which was; install new injectors and see if still stalls, go over trans just because truck is at original builder's shop (in VA Beach mind you I live North of Philly and towed the Prius down with the truck). Outcome - Still stalled...
- Go over trans... Builder said possible the torque converted just decided to go nuts and plausible reason why stalling (still didn't make sense why all of the sudden after injector install the problem began) but, you know electronics sometimes you get a warning of things to come and sometimes it just gives up the ghost with no warning... He dropped the pan and sent me a picture, I've seen typical light black on the bottom of pan when changing fluid etc over the years, but what was pictured indicated to me (plus in excess of 130k miles and my right foot) it was obvious the trans most likely needed done again. He pulled it out and started finding more not so awesome things, IE: reverse band was down to the metal in most places and the friction disks in the clutch pack were almost paper thin. We decided to do a full rebuild = triple loc converter, carbon fiber friction materials, VB, billet flex-plate (had to have with triple loc) and I told him to throw in a billet input as well, confirming all new electronics and internal wiring would be utilize. He told me he'd have the converter built with 200 rpm less stall on the bottom end of the rpm range - made sense. $5,850 later (mind you back when I originally had it done without $$$ for billet parts and utilizing new but std DTT torque converter, the build cost 5k) Outcome - Still stalled...
- Next up New VP... The trans guy (who BTW isn't just a "trans guy" has several of his own Cummins running crazy hp and tq - he's a bit on the dark side and an extremely talented wrench) felt the VP could be part, if not the actual, problem. Plausible to me, it was well over 10 years old the original only lasted that long and you know electronics... $325 to install the BOSCH certified rebuilt Thoroughbred SO-VP (say $1,100) shipped to him. Outcome - Still stalled... NOTE: He does have and ran the Chrysler software and no codes, no live diagnostics and all sensors came back tip top??? What could it be?
- Possible ECM??? He had a good ECM from a 99 in his shop and gave it a try Outcome - Still stalled...
- Trans Guy's thoughts... He felt the injectors could be the issue and wanted to throw a set of RV275s in to see if problem persisted. I said there was no way after sinking all the money I did, which should allow me to (if I decided to go nuts and throw Mach whatever's at it with twins and drugs) add more power than before was I going to compromise and step back power. It just didn't and still doesn't make sense why all this started "immediately after" freshened injectors went in??? I told him if he had a good set of stock cores (injectors) around he could give that a try, he said he didn't have a set and even if he did he wouldn't suggest putting a set of cores in. I told him get it ready for me to pick it up.
Where I'm at as of Monday 4/5/2021
- Made it home Thursday 4/1/2021 (no kidding...) around 7PM, left the house in rental car around 1AM, yea I drove down and back in 1 day at 62 years old I'm definitely getting too old for that.
- Went thru FSM Fueling electronic section ECM and PCM inputs/outputs - mind blowing. Also, on other forum quite a few things were pointing at crank position sensor.
- In went new crank sensor Outcome - Still stalled...
- I reconnected the Edge since it was a nice day and I was in the engine compartment. NOTE: Trans guy totally disconnected everything on the Edge in the engine compartment "and" never installed my Stealth Wire Tap (which I found in the truck, oh along with the core VP and supposed to have also been returned by him refreshed injectors). I'm really a bit disappointed with him, however in his defense he didn't charge me (outside of the trans, labor for VP and injector install) for I'm sure a fair amount of time spent trying to diagnose. So, I'm not totally ticked off, just a bit disappointed.
- Kicked the tools in a pile in the garage, locked the truck, closed the garage door, grabbed a "Guinness Extra Stout" and haven't lifted the hood since.
Thank you all in advance. I really need my truck and just can't drive the "Stall Mobile" as it is now and feel safe.
Joe McCaz
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