A no start hemi

[Makensmoke]

Besides my cummins i'm responsible for a 06 2500 quad cab hemi that is used as a emergency response vehicle. Since new the truck has left us stranded several times. Has anybody else had issues with this vintage truck for no apparent reason going dead? It will also lock its keys in the ignition on its own as well.

We are aware and have excersized its ability to save the battery when the headlights are left on, this however is something different. Sometimes cycling the key will "trigger?" something and it will start. Other times it takes a jump, once it had to be towed and a new computer put in it, which apparently wasen't the fix either.

It is loaded with undercover strobes and light bars, a siren, flashlight charging station, and a 2 way radio system which is all 100% isolated. The professional installers rechecked their work after the dealer passed the buck to them, and they assured me they have no voltage draw when the key is off. They have set up thousands of squad cars, I have no doubts on their workmanship. Dealer washed their hands of it and said its the lights, light company says its the truck.

Any help would be appreciated!

 

[betterthanstock]

My first brand new car, an 89 plymouth, started doing something similar after about 3-4 years (out of warranty).

Sometimes after starting, the fan (vent) would go off. I then discovered that the fan, backup lights, and rear defrost were on the same circuit. I once wiggled the key, after starting, and got it to function, so after that, I would wiggle the key whenever it refused to run. It went like that for 10 more years.



Evidently, in that one, the key had a seperate contact for the accessories, than the ignition, so the engine never died.

In your case, I'd replace the key switch first. Also, make sure that the lights or whatever, are tapped into the accesories leg of the switch, not the engine contacts. Better yet, have them tied with a relay into the cigarette lighter, if it is switched off when the key is taken out. Those key switches are very flimsy.



Or you can replace the whole key with something real heavy duty on the dash.

 

[Matt400]

A couple of things come to mind that you might consider:

1) There is a TSB out on that model for the IOD fuse not being fully seated. The IOD (ignition off draw) fuse is located in the under hood fuse box. Its purpose is for shipping and long term storage. When the vehicle is prepped the tech is suppose to "fully seat" that fuse but some have just given it a push just untill they hear a click but thats not good enough because that "click" is just what happens when the fuse pops loose from its disconnect carrier. You have to continue pressing down evenly untill there is no movement. An intermittent connection at the IOD could cause trouble.



2) We discovered a weird draw on our 03 PT cruiser that could be related. It had the exact same symptoms your Ram has even after a new battery, charging system test and draw test were done.



It was actually operator error.

A combination not driving the vehicle over a period of 1-2 weeks in addition to getting into the vehicle during that time for various things. I had turned the key on so I could pull it out of park and roll it back some in the garage then shut the key off, a few other time just opened the door to get things left in the car but each time the system was "awaken" and stayed powered up causing the battery to go dead. In this case leaving the car alone while its in the garage fixed the trouble especially by not turning the ign key to the on position for anything.

 

[Makensmoke]

First off, the accessories are isolated from the ignition and all other circuits with a relay. Its a very large relay and it is switched with what was said to be a factory supplied wire for doing things like what we are doing. So everything should be legit as far as our keeping the accessories isolated.



About leaving the car alone for a while, its a pretty safe bet that any more than 3 days and the truck will be dead. I couldn't let myself be ok with being told that I can't open the door or awaken the truck while its sitting for a long period of time. I've got to think that they put better engineering than that into these.



Vehicles do have alot of fancies now a days and i'm sure it has something do do with its staying on and keeping power onto the accessories. I wish it would just turn on when the key is on and shut off when the key is off. Same with the lights. I would think they could/would trace all of this at the dealer... ?

 

[Matt400]

its a pretty safe bet that any more than 3 days and the truck will be dead.

In that case it should be an easy find. Simply install a low amps probe to measure current draw, wait 1 hr to insure all systems are asleep, then read the meter. More than 50ma I consider too much and then pull one fuse at a time, reinstalling it to isolate the circuit causing the draw.

If the battery has been deep cycled several times finding it dead like this in just 3 days then it may need replacement. A charge and test is in order for that. You need a good battery to start with or it can fool you into thinking its a draw causing the trouble.



If you need to locate a shop that can help, you might try a zip code search here:

iATN - Repair Shop Finder

 

[roadking]

just a guess but my 03 is garage kept and i leave the keys in the ignition and just turn it back 1 click ( from run to off ) the milage stays lit all the time and my batteries go dead in 2 or 3 days. turning it back to the pull out position ( push button in to pull the key out )no dead battery even after 2 weeks if you leave the keys in the truck make sure to turn it back to the pull out position

 

[Makensmoke]

I will check on that roadking. Not a bad thought as the keys only get pulled when the truck is out of town. Which reminds me of the time it was put on a flat bed and hauled away... it was about 10 hours away from home, i'm 99% sure the keys would have been pulled and doors locked, and it still died, and took a new computer to get it home. This could be a different problem alltogether though. ?



Which also reminds me we had to rent a loaner car to get home because the computer had to be ordered in, which took a couple days. We got stuck with the loaner car bill to boot! Then send a guy back there in a few days to get the truck back.

 

[roadking]

I will check on that roadking. Not a bad thought as the keys only get pulled when the truck is out of town. Which reminds me of the time it was put on a flat bed and hauled away... it was about 10 hours away from home, i'm 99% sure the keys would have been pulled and doors locked, and it still died, and took a new computer to get it home. This could be a different problem alltogether though. ?



Which also reminds me we had to rent a loaner car to get home because the computer had to be ordered in, which took a couple days. We got stuck with the loaner car bill to boot! Then send a guy back there in a few days to get the truck back.

check it out ,it must leave stuff powered up, try you will see

 

[sag2]

First you have to understand the logic of the new vehicles. All the new Chrysler products have load shedding logic. That is why almost everything goes through a controller or the TIPM. The modules all wake up when something happens.

Key fob pressed

Door opened

Key in door lock

key in ignition

lights turned on etc. etc.



The controllers wake up in anticipation of something happening. If nothing happens they start to go back to sleep. In most cases when you shut off the truck, all modules will be asleep within about two minutes. Now if you leave something on such as a light, it will eventually (usually) go off if it is controller operated. Now the glove box light is usually not controller operated, so it can stay on and all the load shedding logic won't save you. The key in the ignition is another one that will generally keep the bus awake. It assumes because you have the key in the ignition you mean to start the car, so the bus stays awake. Most modules will go to sleep, but come up for a peek every so often to see if anything is going on. Each time they see the key in switch they will stay awake longer until the battery is dead.

When your dealer checked it he had everything shut off and the key removed, so of course there was nothing wrong. So first make sure the battery is good, and then remove the key and see if the battery lasts longer. Also beware of cell phone chargers, as they can keep the bus alive because the accessory outlets are usually controlled by the TIPM.

With everything out and off you should see no more than 65ma, and as MATT400 said, 50 is better. The new LX cars are down to about 15ma which should keep the battery alive for at least three weeks.

 

[Makensmoke]

I wonder if there is a way to shut off all those key sensative controllers. Thank you very much! We will start pulling the key and see if that does the trick today.