Guns, Bows, Shooting Sports, and Hunting adventures in reloading

[KBurgoyne]

conflicting data

for a 300 grain bullet with 4198,



hornady says 49 grains is a max



nosler says 51 is a max



hodgdon says 53. 7 is a starting load, 57 is a max.



whats goin on here.

 

[GHarman]

Barnes #4 says 53. 5 Gr. H-4198 with the 300 Gr jacketed, lead core Flat point as maximum for the Marlin 1895, . 45/70. Are you using H-4198 or IMR-4198. They are similar but not the same. What brass was used to develop the data. All brass is not equal. Different manufactures brass will have different volume! All bullets are not equal, with different bearing surface lengths, different jacket hardness, et al!
Pressure, velocity and recoil. What are you planning to do with it? Target shoot or hunt? Start low and watch for pressure signs. Check for your most accurate load if you need to shoot out to 200 yards or more. I prefer the most accurate load for all applications!
GregH

 

[KBurgoyne]

i lost some rounds during the crimping process when they buckled. what causes the cases to buckle. i seated and crimped in two seperate steps. i tried backing off the crimp a little, but the one that i tried that on didnt pass the smack test.

 

[HHhuntitall]

How much did you back the crimp off? It can be a rather sensitive process with some bullets... .

 

[GHarman]

I do the crimp in multiple steps. If the crinkled rounds will chamber? Fire them single shot and reload them again! GregH

 

[KBurgoyne]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmkay. i realize there is a learning curve here, i just really dont wanna screw up things that need to contain explosions.



has anyone had better luck with a certain brand of cases over the others?

of the 50 winchesters in the first new bag only one had a slight dent in the side of the case. several had out of round openings, but that was fixed easily by the expander.



the only thing im not a big fan of with the dies is that the crimp shoulder is mobile.

 

[GHarman]

Round out the case mouths with the expander. Thats a good thing. Do you chamfer the case mouth?

Crimping is done in steps. It is a SEPARATE STEP from seating the bullet! You must adjust the seating die so it will seat only. Withdraw the seating stem after all your bullets are seated to the proper depth. Then re adjust the die body down on a case until it starts the crimp. I usually add 1/2 turn after I've touched off. Do all the loaded ammo. Then inspect. If I want more, I then unlock the locking ring. and screw the die down another 1/2 to 3/4 turn and do the entire batch the same way. Re inspect. If it needs more. unlock the ring, add another 1/2 or 1/4 turn. Each time I adjust the die, with a case inserted at full stroke of the ram. Thats when I tighten the lock ring. You dont get crumpled cases, this way!

GregH

 

[KBurgoyne]

i didnt chamfer the cases since they're new, but ill try out the double crimp.



anybody use these suckers.

Speer Bullets - Product Details



im going to put together a smorgisboard.

sierra 300 hp, 62 and 65 of h335; 49 and 51 of IMR 4198

hornady 350 jrn 54 and 57 of h335 45 and 47 of 4198

made leverevolutions 325 grain 58 of h335

and maybe those 400's

 

[GHarman]

Yes I have! The Speer bullet works great. Not the most accurate jacketed bullet available, but a reliable performer on big game. Full mushroom on a lengthwise penetration of a Cow Elk at 175 yards. The bullet also retained its jacket. GregH

PS, I used to have that slug lying around. If I can find it, I will take a photo and post it.

 

[HHhuntitall]

I've used the Speer Hot core in just about every other caliber, but not the . 45. I'm sure it's a lethal bullet, all the others were. I still use 'em in my 9mm, . 45 ACP, 7mm Rem Mag, and a . 270. I too, have had difficulties with them being as accurate as other manufacturer's bullets in the rifles. In handguns, I've not had any problems, and highly reccomend them for personal protection and game. I've got quite a few of the 124gr 9mm loaded.

 

[KBurgoyne]

sierra reloading

does anyone have a sierra reloading gude. i'd like to know what sierra has to say about imr 4198 with their 300 hp pro hunters.



i checked their site and they just give you a link to buy the guide.

 

[KBurgoyne]

by the way made a few more rounds this time no buckling. it appears that just slightly over half a turn gives a strong enough crimp without bucklers. passed a hard smack test with a test round.

 

[KBurgoyne]

Bullets 45 Cal (459 Diameter) 460 Grain Lead Flat Nose Gas Check

so mr. harman since you reccomended these i was also wondering what a good load for this bullet would be. preferably imr 4198, but rl7 is fine.



im trying to save me from mysef and not end up with a bunch of half used up bottles of powder.

 

[GHarman]

Start Low and work up! Use the data for the 500 Gr. Flat nosed in a Modern 1895 Marlin. Just remember, They will KICK! It really is dependent on what your rifle likes and how much recoil you can take.

I will not recommend specific powder weights. Powders and Bullets, yes. My loads were worked up in my rifle. Yours may be different!

IMHO, save the 4198 for the lighter bullets. Re-7 is better suited for the heavies and mid weight jacketed bullets.

Heres a place to do some research! Have Fun!

GregH



The 45/70 Govt.

 

[BIGNASTY]

I would take G Man and HH advice to HART. I have the Marlin and have been touching off the Garrett big boy's and they look a little hot/primers are pretty flat/powder burn leak around primer on some/some are loose. Every gun is different even thou they are built to the same specs on any givin day. JMO



BIG

 

[KBurgoyne]

i reinspected the cases from the first set of round with the 45 grain 4227 charge. without resising the case mouth measures . 483. the head is . 501. the widest section is just above the head at . 506 all of which is almost exactly in spec, so im starting to think the charge isnt that bad. no flat primers or powder burns.



the big thing is that i dont care about the cases. they're forty years oldand have been loaded an undisclosed number of times so they wont be reused. so as long as the rounds dont hurt the gun ill fire them.

 

[HHhuntitall]

Well, first off, pressure signs are not near as evident on the straight walled cartridges, such as 30-30, 45-70, 357 magnum, 44-40, etc... . The pressure is distributed more directly to the bolt face and chamber walls, and the pressure curve, due to barrel bore size is usually shaped much differently than normal, "bottle-necked" cartridges..... As advice, I have to say you are seriously overcharging your rifle..... Most reloading manuals list 30-35gr as max powder charge, depending on bullet. I think with the 300gr bullets, you are only slightly over max pressure, but with the 400s, you're WAYYYY over pressure for what your rifle is designed for. The rifle breech or barrel shank could fail before showing any signs of pressure to the primer cup. As you're not twisting the cartridge into the bolt face, it won't show extractor marks..... Personally, I'd have to say pull the bullets or chunk the loads... . sorry. If you had a Ruger or bolt gun, I'd think it'd be borderline, but... .

 

[KBurgoyne]

then they shall be pulled. the bullets are 350 loaded from an old hornady manual as a medium for a no. 1.



i can see a bolt action in my future; it looks something like this. Savage Arms or

Savage Arms



final review on hornady dies. stick with RCBS. decapping, resising, and expanding all work great, but the mobile crimp shoulder is a deal breaker. its really picky about how much the cases are expanded. if they are too wide( and it aint much) they wont go into the die. when you crimp a round it gets stuck and has to be yanked out which sometimes pops the shoulder ot because its only held in with a tiny pin. theres hundreds of reviews most people liked them, but ive had far less problems with a 40 year old set of RCBS.

 

[HHhuntitall]

Oh my, yes... . I like the Savage rifles. I've seen and had some trigger problems with the way the bolt and triggers are made, but overall, for the money, they've been the most accurate rifle out of the box you can buy. I have a Long Range Precision varminter in . 223 Rem, 1:7 twist barrel, that I won several FTR shoots with at Ft. Wolters. I had to half-size the necks to make it really accurate, but for a factory produced rifle, it's really accurate..... I've also seen several of the 6. 5x284s shoot very well, as well as a few hunting rifles... . I'm actually debating on a 110BA in 338 Lapua I found..... The guy wants too much for it, but it's got a nice scope on it... .



Hornady. Yeeeaaaaahhhhhhhh. I don't like the Hornday's. I've had 4-5 sets in various calibers, and they suck, IMO... . I pretty much go with the RCBS or Redding. I've had both do various work for me on wildcat cartridges, and haven't had a rude or arrogant person on the phone once. They've been nice, and if they don't know the question, they'll find out or get me on the phone with someone that does. They(RCBS) even ate a set of dies they made for me, as they didn't make the bases small enough to fully resize high pressure loads, so I had to have another set made. What a good company to deal with!!



As a side note, there are older dies out there that are made really well, such as TEXAN, Pacific Tool and Die, and even the LEE die sets, all better than the Hornady, and fairly cheap used. I'd bet you could find a used set of 45/70 dies for less than $50... ... In fact, I need to look, I may have some used ones for sale... .....

 

[KBurgoyne]

that doesnt go there

i found a live primer in the lint screen of the dryer. i didnt want to use it, or waste it so i took it to the garage and hit it with a punch. those things are loud. i was expecting a pop, but damn. my ears hurt.