AmsOil and Soot

[drawson]

Ok I don't want to start this all over but I told you i would report the Soot level in my oil with 57500 miles on the oil.



Here is the data from Oil Analyzers...



Viscosity @100 C 12. 8 Soot 1. 3 TBN 11. 0 Fuel 1. 2



Iron 21 Chrom 1 Lead 4 Copper 3 Tin 2 Alum 6 Nickel 0

Silicon 7



No corrective Action Required Oil is suitable for Continued use.



Fuel present/ check extended idle time



Please let's not start another War thread out of this



Dee

 

[amsoilman]

Hey there Dee,

I recently had my oil analysis done on January 3, 2002 with 31,800 on my oil and my soot level was 1. 2. Viscosity @100 C 11. 1 (5W-30 HDD). Fuel was <1. 0. TBN 12. 0. Iron 130 Chrom 37 Lead 13 Copper 6

Tin 2 Alluminum 16 Nickel 1 Silicon 12.



Truck had 136,800 miles at the time of oil analysis, today it has 138,120



Remarks:"Results of tests performed indicate oil is suitable for continued use. Change oil filter(S), if not done when sampled, top off system, resample at next shedualed interval. "



Not starting any WAR here at all!



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[Sled Puller]

My last one?

After 15,000 miles and heavy fueling, the sample said,



"Check injection system. "

Oh, it is checked and it needs more fuel!



heheheh. BUSTED!

Gene

 

[NVR FNSH]

I seem to remember that in some of the K&N threads guys were reporting oil analysis silicon numbers of 1-2 & bragging about it. How does this compare to the 7-12 that you guys are reporting? What are the max levels of allowable silicon?



Brian

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

UMMMMm - well, I'm sorta CONFUSED here (not uncommon at my age )...



*I* thought soot levels evident in oil were evidence/caused by the natural combustion of DIESEL FUEL - so HOW does any of the above relate to, or in any way PROMOTE the efficiency or effectiveness of the engine OIL in use? WHY would soot levels, a byproduct of combustion, be any "better" with one oil vs another?



Seems sorta like claiming the brand of AIR I use in my tires is keeping my frontend aligned better...



OH - and MY last oil analysis (5000 miles on plain 'ol Rotella T) showed insoluables (soot, etc. ) at 0. 4 ppm...

 

[Deezul1]

Hey Dee

Does your oil look fairly black or clean. I installed the dual bypass system about 4000mi ago and wonder what to expect, as of now its still pretty dark, wonder if it will clen up.

Thanks

John

 

[SmokinJoe]

Originally posted by Deezul 1

Does your oil look fairly black or clean. I installed the dual bypass system about 4000mi ago and wonder what to expect, as of now its still pretty dark, wonder if it will clen up.

I want to know as well.

 

[Don M]

The by-pass filters will not clear the color of the oil up. It will stay dark and with increased fueling levels the oil will just get blacker.

The by-pass filters also remove soot from the oil and can make the percentage of soot in the oil lower. The problem with most soot percentages is the method in which many oil analysis firms use to detect soot. Many manufacturers dont like to see anything over 1% for oil to be left in service after analysis.

Another problem is Cummins does not give us written data to go by for recommended soot loading and percentages. They will quietly tell you if you ask the right questions though.



The fact that the oil analyzers say that the oil is fit for continued use is beyond me when many manufacturers of Diesel engines say no more than . 8% percent is acceptable for oil that will return to service. Some go as high as 3% total, but this oil should not be continued in service at all. Somewhere in there is our engines.

To each his own, I guess.



Don~

 

[DEZLPWR]

Hey Amsoilman...

Why so high on the silicon?? That's definitely on the high side. Maybe it's time to deep six that Amsoil air filter for a REAL air filter... (AFE filter, maybe?)

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

SHUCKS DEZLPWR, you think the *silicone* percentage is high...



Ya musta MISSED the iron at 130 and chrome at 37...



Gotta GET me somma that Amsoil, and start them there "engine saving" extended oil changes...

 

[Don M]

Oil analyzsers says to put it back in service. HAHAHAHA!



"to each his own!"



Don~

 

[HC]

Dee,

For ~57k, I'd say I'm impressed with those numbers. Your signature says Amsoil bypass. Single or Dual remote?



Second question: How often do you change full flow filter?

Third question: How often do you change your bypass?



I recently added a bypass system but have not yet decided what filter change schedule to follow, so I'd like to hear some input from others.

 

[Sled Puller]

57,000 miles on the oil, I repeat , on the oil, and you guys are worried about 21 iron and 7 sillicon??????



I would REALLY like to see any other oil out there run that many miles and look that good.

 

[dalton4]

What is catching my attention is the difference between Drawson's and Amsoilman's test results. Drawson with a turned up motor has roughly 44% more miles on his oil than Amsoilman does with a stock motor (judging by signatures). However, test numbers for Drawson overall are a lot better.



What are the lab's max limits allowed for continued oil use? Was the same lab used by both?



Thanks to Drawson and Amsoilman for sharing the results.



Jerry

 

[HC]

Does your oil look fairly black or clean. I installed the dual bypass system about 4000mi ago and wonder what to expect, as of now its still pretty dark, wonder if it will clen up.

John,

You didn't ask me, but sounds like we're on a similar path so I'll share my notes too.

I put on the Dual remote a little more than 5k ago. Sounds like maybe you kept running the same oil (?). When I installed the filter, I dumped the old oil. I would describe my oil color now as "gray". It is nowhere near the "black" that it would have been (at 5k) prior to adding the bypass filtration, but it is not the same color as out of the bottle, either. Results of first lab test should arrive in the mail any day now.

 

[drawson]

I am running a single bypass system. For the first 30K I was changing the full flow filter at 7500 miles and the bypass at 15K. After 30K I have been changing the full flow at 5K and the bypass at 15K still.



Here is my theory on the soot number and Amsoilman results and mine. I believe that the way we drive why the results are diff. IMO the oil stay cleaner the harder you drive the thing. I try at least once a day to blow out the all the cumbustion chamber deposits. The other thing is the milage diff on out trucks.



Ok all this being said as soon as my new oil is here I'll be changing it anyway to the new ser 3000 oil.



One last thing when doing the KDP repair yesterday I was pleasntly surprised how clean it was inside the front cover

 

[drawson]

I forgot to add one thing I'm running with the AmsOil that I'm also sold on. ER Energy Release. I put ER in when I change the filter at 22,500 and have been real impressed with it. there where those that thought it would create acid in reduce the TBN number.





I am one happy camper getting my truck leak free again after epoxying the inner cover yesterday.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

SO, lemme get this straight, you Amsoil lovers...



(This is all in fun guys, no offence intended )



If *I* approached you with an offer to SELL you this fabulous "miracle oil", and showed you that out-of-the-bottle, it "only" contained an added 136 ppm iron, 37 ppm chrome, and all those OTHER percentages of contaminents indicated in analysis listed above, YOU would GLADLY fork over *3 times* the cost of "regular" oil, and proceed to happily pour the stuff I was selling into yer crankcase?



GEEZE - and some of you guys dare ridicule STP and TP bypass filters!



I MIGHT not be particularly concerned about a *single* particle of sand blown against the side of my truck, after all, how much damage could it possibly do?



BUT, how about a BUCKET of sand, under relatively high pressure applied the same way? Even SMALL particles of contaminents, allowed to steadily accumulate and circulate under high pressure, heat and stress, HAVE to be a BAD thing!



WHY would an otherwise intelligent person deliberately CHOOSE to leave that accumulating GUNK in his crankcase - and even publicly BRAG about it?



Not to mention, suggest and recommend that others follow their "enlightened and informed" example!



OH - and I notice that NO ONE has so far replied to my question as to what ENGINE OIL has to do with soot accumulation - since soot generation is a FUEL combustion issue, and has precious LITTLE to do with the brand/type of motor oil in use...

 

[amsoilman]

To try and answer some of the questions regarding my oil analysis, first let me say there is more to having used oil analyzed than just having one analysis to look at. One needs to look at the Parts per Million per Mile. Also, I have had my oil analyzed 10 times since going to an analysis program on my truck.



Keep in mind the numbers you read for my report was with 31,000 miles…. that's TEN TIMES a "normal" drain interval, if you drained every 3,000 miles! So if my soot level was 1. 2 percent at 31,000 miles, it would have only been 0. 12 at the 3,000 mile mark!

Same thing holds true with the "Wear Metals", largest number was Iron at 130. If one takes into consideration the miles again, that is only 13. 0 PPM of Iron for 3,000 miles.



Now someone was concerned about the "Soot" levels. First off, No oil filter will remove soot! Not even a by-pass oil filter, as the size of Soot particles are very, very small! We're talking ¼ of a micron! The by-pass I'm using removes particles down to 3 microns with an efficiency of 98. 67%, 71. 2 Percent efficiency at 1 micron. Beta ratio of 85. 63. Beta ratio is the number of "specific size particles "before filtration" , divided by the number of the same size particles "after filtration". These figures were determined using SAE Test Method J1858 and was conducted by the Milwaukee School of Engineering, Fluid Power division.



According to my lab technician, the Dispersants/Detergents (Magnesium, Calcium, and Barium) additives in the oil is what keeps the particles of Soot from "Agglomerating", or bonding to each other making the soot particles larger. He indicated to me that anything at 3 Percent would be considered "elevated", and would require the oil to be drained. Again mine was 1. 2 Percent!

There was also a concern about my Silicon level. Remember "Silicon" is also an oil additive which helps to reduce "Foaming", so even a "New Oil" will have a given amount of Silicon already in it.



When I first got into the oil analysis program, it was by my own choice. Everyone has a choice to do as they want, and that is good! I chose this way because I think it is the best way to go, as I know what is happening "inside" my engine.

And to answer anothers question on my truck, it is not even close to being stock!



Best regards,





Wayne

 

[Pit Bull]

I would not even think of going to the extended drain interval. I would miss the smell of the Rotella for the first 500 miles after the oil change I've even considered changing every 3000 miles instead of 5000 so I could enjoy the smell more often But I am the type of owner that hates the idea of the 03 Cummins engine being quieter. Takes all kinds.