Amsoil not API certified

[Texas Diesel]

nevermind

nevermind

 

[TxDieselKid]

Don't you remember the response last time this was brought up? Run it if you want, because they say it "exceds" the API testing. If you want to use it, use it. Obviously it works for lots of people. If this non-API scares you, don't use it.



Andrew



P. S. Not trying to be rude like I just re-read it to be, just tired of oil wars.

 

[me4osu]

Change your password

Looks like DonM is using your computer.



Really, I agree. If it is not API certified, DC will most assuredly void your warranty if a failure occurs that is lubrication related.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

I sure hope this doesn't go the way of past oil threads. Here's something that was pulled from the Amsoil site that was posted on a previous thread regarding this:

An API (American Petroleum Institute) license indicates that a specific motor oil formulation has passed the minimum performance standards as defined by a series of laboratory bench, physical, chemical and engine tests. These tests were selected and minimum performance standards were set by the API Lubricants Committee to address specific areas such as engine wear, deposits, fuel economy, emissions, etc. The committee is comprised of representatives from automobile, oil and additive companies. The current specification is SJ/GF-2, and in July 2001 the first use of SL/GF-3 will begin.

The cost for running a test program for a single passenger car motor oil formulation is from $125,000 to $300,000, depending on if the formula passes the tests the first time through or requires multiple test runs or formula modifications to achieve a passing average. (That amount goes to $275,000 to $500,000 for a Heavy Duty Diesel licensing program on a specific formula. ) Once that testing is complete and the formula has passed all of the minimum requirements, it can be licensed for $825 per year for non-members and $625 per year for members. There is also a small royalty fee per gallon sold for all gallons over one million. The length of time between new specifications is now approximately 2 to 3 years, which does not allow a great deal of time to recover testing costs.

Additive companies, such as Lubrizol, Ethyl, Infinium and Oronite, develop licensed formulas that they offer to oil companies to re-license. It is inexpensive to re-license one of these formulas, and the majority of oil companies choose to do this to avoid the costs associated with testing. This, however, tends to commoditize the market. The same chemistry is being sold under many brand names. Most of the major oil companies do have their own proprietary formulas developed, tested and licensed. All of AMSOIL INC. 's lubricant formulas are unique and proprietary.



The prevalent sources of phosphorous in motor oils are additives called zinc dithiophosphates (ZDTPs). Currently, these versatile additives act as oxidation/corrosion inhibitors and aid in the ability of a lubricant to reduce wear. The automobile manufacturers, however, have demanded that lubricants contain a maximum of only . 10% phosphorous.

Their reason is that some Manufacturers believe that higher phosphorous content levels will poison the catalytic converers on their cars before they reach 150,000 miles, which is the number of miles that their vehicles will be required to pass EPA emission standards. There has not been total agreement within the automotive and lubrication industry about whether phosphorous levels over . 10% actually do harm catalytic converters in the long run.

The maximum allowable NOACK volatility percentage for the new SL/GF-3 passenger car motor oil specification is 15%. Most of AMSOIL motor oils are in the 5% to 8% NOACK volatility range.



Studies have shown there is a correlation between NOACK volatility, oil consumption and the amount of phosphorous from motor oil that will end up in the exhaust gasses. Therefore, oils with higher levels of phosphorous but with low volatility, such as AMSOIL motor oils, present no more risk to catalytic converters than low phosphorous oils with higher NOACK volatility. This has also been demonstrated for years in actual application through state mandated exhaust gas testing on our Dealers' and customers' high mileage vehicles using AMSOIL synthetic motor oils.



State Inspectors are continually amazed at the low emissions levels generated by vehicles using AMSOIL products. So much for poisoning catalytic converters.



What they have failed to make allowances for is the NOACK volatility of an oil.



Why Some AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils Are API Licensed And Some Are Not?



1. Full API licensing puts AMSOIL INC. in an inflexible position. Not only would we find it necessary to buy formula components from specific vendors and be at the mercy of their pricing, we would not be able to make any major improvements to the lubricant formulas for 2 to 3 years, without new testing and the associated costs.



To solve this problem, the API must establish basestock interchange guidelines for synthetic basestocks just as they have for other basestocks, as well as develop interchange guidelines for other components too.



2. Full API licensing would impose strict phosphorous limitations on our motor oils. This limitation is the main reason most AMSOIL motor oils are not API licensed. AMSOIL INC. currently disagrees with this limitation and feels strongly that the reduced wear and longer oil and additive life achieved through higher levels of properly balanced phosphorous content is more important than the arbitrary API phosphorous limit that does not give any consideration to the NOACK volatility level of an oil. When chemistry is developed that will provide superior engine wear protection with reduced phosphorous levels, or Noack volatility considerations are put in place, then the Phosphorous level will become a non-issue.



How Does AMSOIL INC. Ensure Their Products Meet Or Exceed The Minimum Specifications Of The Tests Required For API Licensing?



First, AMSOIL INC. works closely with major additive companies to select the top performing, and usually most expensive, passenger car and heavy duty diesel motor oil additives. These additives have already passed all of the API licensing requirements in a petroleum or synthetic based formulation. Then we work with the additive company to maximize the amount of additive used and to boost the additive package in selected performance areas to achieve an optimum performing additive package for reduced wear and extended drain intervals. This is unlike the vast majority of companies who, because additives are expensive, use the minimum amount of the least expensive additives required to meet the minimum API requirements.



We then utilize a blend of synthetic basestocks with known performance characteristics as a replacement for the petroleum basestocks to optimize performance in areas of lubricity, volatility, viscosity index, oxidation and nitration resistance, pour points, flash points, deposit control, soot handling, emissions, etc. We also will utilize a highly shear stable V. I. improver to ensure viscosity retention throughout extended drain intervals. This replaces the inexpensive and less shear stable V. I. improver used in the API licensed petroleum formula. We do laboratory bench tests before running field tests to verify the superiority of the synthetic formula in actual use. We also continue to monitor the performance of the oil through close scrutiny of tens of thousands of oil analysis tests per year across a wide variety of vehicles all around North America and the World.



AMSOIL INC. has been collecting used synthetic oil samples from passenger cars since 1982. No other oil company has such a vast data base of the performance of synthetic lubricants over extended drain intervals.



AMSOIL INC. 's products and formulations outperform API licensed oils. They're engineered that way. Period.

Here's your quote and I'm highlighting what they are saying (because I couldn't figure out a good way to put it into words):

AMSOIL INC. of Superior, Wisconsin, hereby warrants that its lubricants and lubricating fluids are capable of and suitable for meeting the specifications set forth in the AMSOIL Product Selection Guide, product data bulletins and written recommendations. It is the responsibility of the retailer, installer and/or purchaser to determine if these specifications are adequate and proper for the intended application.

So what they are saying is if they say the oil meets API spec CH-4 and you use it in a vehicle that specifies CH-4 that the rest of the guarantee applies. That's just how I read it.

 

[PRout]

Edited: Due to original post was a little provocative...



Theres no question that the Amsoil makes for quieter cold weather startups, as compared to Delo. But without the API cert you have to question the consistancy from one lot to the next.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Do a search on "API AMSOIL" - you'll find 70 threads and 2646 posts discussing this issue. It has been discussed at GREAT length.

 

[dmurdock]

...

 

[fest3er]

My '98 Service Manual states, for diesel engine oil, engine oil quality: "Use only oils conforming to API Quality CE or CE/SG. "

Also, for classification of lubricants: "Only lubricants that are endorsed by the following organization should be used to service a Chrysler Corporation vehicle. "

Thus, '... should be used ... ' means that API certification is not mandatory, and '... oils conforming to ... ' means that any oil that meets or exceeds the specs, including Amsoil, is just fine for use.

Perhaps the Service Manual is worded differently in other years, but for my '98, using Amsoil is quite acceptable.

Fest3er

 

[Doubleclutch]

dmurdock

And I DO follow caution signs!

Greg

 

[Riflesmith]

I use Amsoil because it is NOT API certified. The reasoning behind this is explained very well by Steve's post on API certification. I want an engine oil company to cater to my desires for superior protection. API certification caters to the desires of the auto companies who have to bow down to the EPA. Not to mention the possibility that the auto companies might not want too much anti-wear agent in oils for other, profit generating reasons.

 

[Deezul1]

Check whatever brand oil you like and see if its API Certified, you may be suprised. Most brands have some types certified but not all types are

 

[rrausch]

Thank Goodness an OIL THREAD! I'm so tired of Transmission wars!

 

[Deezul1]

LOL

 

[WadePatton]

Originally posted by Riflesmith

I use Amsoil because it is NOT API certified. The reasoning behind this is explained very well by Steve's post on API certification. I want an engine oil company to cater to my desires for superior protection. API certification caters to the desires of the auto companies who have to bow down to the EPA. Not to mention the possibility that the auto companies might not want too much anti-wear agent in oils for other, profit generating reasons.

Excellent point... Damm, now I gotta go get some Amsoil.

 

[jwilliams3]

Before this thread deteriorates,





1. Amsoil is not API certified.

2. Amsoil should invest in certification, it might payoff big if this oil is the best thing since sliced bread.



3. I believe Amsoil is a great product, that probably does exceed API standards, but they need a little more then "4 ball wear tests" to back up data.



4. Delo 3000 mile intervals for me!



--Justin

 

[Texas Diesel]

jwilliams3, I second your point. especially the 4 ball wear test.

 

[fj40charles]

Interesting... Don M. is not here, but there is a thread about Amsoil oil not bering API certified. Wasn't this the thread that got him booted off... I'm sure Don is probably reading this and just laughing... ... In case you're wondering. . he has been hanging out on www.dodge-diesel.org



Charles

 

[John Berger]

I guess it comes down to results. Having an API certification is no guarantee against a bad lot of oil hitting the market. I understand the credence given to products that have gone through the certification process, but just remember, every single production item off an assembly line does not get individually certified. I will compare apples to oranges here: look at the number of beef recalls over the past few years due to E coli. All that beef received the FDA stamp of approval, i. e. certification. The certification is only as good as the reputation of the certifier. And despite the best intentions of inspectors, certification boards, etc, bad stuff can and will slip through the cracks from time to time. A certification of any product isn't worth doodly squat if the product fails the consumer. That's pretty much how I made my decision to go with Amsoil. And I like the results through 80K miles thus far. Maybe this was dumb on my part, but I didn't hardly pay any attention to these types of things until I bought this truck. This board and my truck have made me a much more conscientious and knowledgable consumer.

 

[Pit Bull]

I'm going to switch to Amsoil as soon as I get 100K miles on my truck. In the interm I am going to try Delvac synthetic this winter. Man I love oil threads

 

[Texas Diesel]

Holy Amsoil Batman!



Some things are best just left alone



Confucious say: Never try to eat another mans sacred cow.



Time to moooove on from this.