Anatomy of a Frantz toilet paper bypass oil filter

[Gary - K7GLD]

"BTW: The main reason to use oil analysis is to show trends. If you use a filter that is so good that it will always give a good analysis, then what's the point of doing the analysis? Is it to indicate that you are using a 'super filter'?"



Well JEEZE, using THAT logic - too much filtering is a BAD thing and fails to reveal "true" wear, what do you suggest - we eliminate ALL filtering, so oil analysis results are not unduly "slanted" by the filter?



HELL NO, not for ME - I didn't hafta take college classes or become a rocket scientist to understand the CLEANER oil in the crankcase WILL reduce engine wear as related to contaminents in the oil - that is what the bypass filter DOES, is why *I* use it, and will continue to do so...



BUT those who feel use of good filtration falsely "slants" oil analysis are entirely free to remove ALL your filtration to keep your reports "honest"...

 

[LandShark]

It really doesn't matter what spin in filters are made of. Are you saying they are made the same as TP filters? I have taken apart a few spin on filters and can assure you that they don't have rolls of paper inside. The filter material in spin on's is designed for the purpose. The filters I've examined have either a hard paper type filter, or a synthetic fiber filter. I've never seen a spin on filter that had media that looked anything like TP or paper towels.



I'm just trying to find out if anyone has done a study on what, if any, chemicals leach out of a roll of TP when used as a oil filter.



I would think that anyone that is looking to get 500,000+ miles or Super high performance out of our engines would question putting something this foreign in their engine.



Gary: My point about the oil analysis is not to have anyone remove filters (you sure have a way of twisting statements around), but that oil analysis is 'perhaps' a waste of money if you are using a filter so good that it removes all the contaminates you are looking for. The analysis would only show that the filter is working and would not show the trends that are looked for to indicate impending problems.

 

[fkovalski]

I have no doubt that by- pass filters ARE a positive addition to the standard system. I think that Gary's oil analisis' are just proof that the TP setup does in fact work. It seems that there are many questions still surrounding the use of TP for the filtering agent. I looked at the Frantz website and they are selling a "TP" package at a higher price than Scott Tissue. So- my question: does it matter if one uses the Frantz' or the Scott's?

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"I would think that anyone that is looking to get 500,000+ miles or Super high performance out of our engines would question putting something this foreign in their engine. "



As I have already pointed out (seems like we keep repeating ourselves!), IF TP outside the bathroom worries you, DON'T use it! I *also* pointed out that these filters are "not for everyone".



And it's been pointed out in threads like this one that these filters and similar ones from other makers are used extensively in commercial/industrial applications where 500,000 miles is just getting started on engine life - in spite of the nasty chemicals used in the filter material!



As for the value of oil analysis in spotting trends with TP or similar filters, I guess you MISSED the portion of my oil analysis above that clearly indicated a CHANGE in a couple of wear metals, for the better... "Trends" show up just the same WITH bypass filtering, as they do without them - the numbers are just different.



As to Brands of TP, those sold by Frantz and what you can buy off the local shelf, I have no doubt Frantz is merely attempting to supply a type/brand they KNOW will perform best (I've seen what they supply, it's very much the same as what *I* use!) rather than the fluffy scented and embossed stuff SOME might buy, then moan about if it didn't function properly - and in SOME locations, there might not BE a decent choice!



It's clear you are distrustful of filters of this type - and maybe of my presentation and replies in this thread - best thing for you would seem to be to carefully AVOID the use of any TP-type bypass filter to stay on the "safe" side...

 

[Turbo Tim 1]

Landshark what's your deal? Gary is simply trying to pass on some information, and it's very complete information too. He has repeatedly said if you don't like bypass filters then don't use one. He is giving us information which is what this site is about. I do think there needs to be two sides to a story but you're being a dink, ease up.

 

[Pawpaw]

Originally posted by Gary - KJ6Q

A picture is usually worth a thousand words = and that is why I provided so many of them in this thread! Go back up to the top, LOOK at the pic showing the removed filter next to the base housing and securing clamp, and you will SEE *all* the "loose oil" that was present when the top was removed! That's IT!



Sure, you CAN insist on removing the top when the engine and oil is still hot and the cannister full, and make the same sort of mess you will if you do the STOCK spin-on full-flow filter the same way - but why would you wanna DO that?

I hope I didn't offend you. That certainly was NOT my intention. In fact, I would like to thank you for taking the time and putting the effort into educating us all. You've certainly opened my eyes.



I carefully examined every pic you posted and I'm much impressed. I guess I'll understand how to change it when I've got one myself.



I had already decided that I wanted a bypass filter on my truck. Now I'm seriously considering the Frantz because I don't think any of the other bypass systems will filter down that small.



If I can figure out where to mount it and what parts to order, I'd say it's 99% certain a Frantz is in my future.



Thank you very much.

 

[TXDSLSHOP]

I am glad we got that all cleared up! I am gettin' me one! And, I don't care what Gary says, I like the Frantz!

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

No problem - I'm not THAT easily offended!



Check out the Frantz filter section in my "reader's rigs" section to get a closeup idea of how I mounted mine - feel free to ask any followup questions, either here, or PM - good luck.

 

[Scot]

Gary, where are you tapping to get oil to the filter?

 

[rbattelle]

Gary,



Is your elbow fitting just threaded into the top of the oil filler cap? If so, no leaks? The plastic up there is very thin, and I was concerned whether it would hold a seal.



For all those following this thread, just to be fair there is another option besides Frantz: www.bypassfilter.com . Their "motor guard" filter is a TP filter, of slightly different canister design than the Frantz.

 

[jzaremski]

man how many times does gary have to say this one... but here goes again.



What in the world do you think a spin on type oil filter is made of?

What difference does that make? there are many, many different types of "paper" out there. Insisting that the "paper" in a typical spin-on filter is the same as that roll of butt tape in your closet is foolish at best.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I had originlly simply drilled, then tapped into the top part of the fill cap, and soldered a 3 inch or so length of 1/4 inch copper tubing to the elbow to place the return oil flow well down inside the valve cover area - removing the oil fill cap was no big deal, simply thread the brass elbow a bit deeper into the cap as the cap was removed, then reverse that to reinstall the cap - no leakage. But at last year's May Madness, I bought one of the Amsoil swivel fittings that allows rotation at that point without affecting the threads - cost about $8, and it is now installed.



As for the oil flow takeoff point, I use the plugged opening at the top of the stock filter housing, as many other bypass users do.



As far as other bypass filter makers, this thread is not sacred by any means, and any other sources of filters are entirely welcomed here as far as I am concerned - ANY decent bypass filter, regardless of filtering material, is undoubtedly better than NONE!



Post as many alternate sources as you like.

 

[BSims66173]

Gary, very informative post. I have been studying on this system and I am now sold. If a group purchase starts then I'm in, otherwise, I will pay full price as your post has convinced me it is a good investment. The company I work for has a saying, Results Count, and your analysis sheets prove that. I know these filter types have been around longer than some of these doubters have been alive. It baffles me that after your prolonged use of this filter that some people, who have never even tried one, will try to change your mind and convince you they don't work. Again thanks. The proof is in the pudding as they say.

 

[Jim McCarty]

This is a great thread. I have been interested in these for years but never really got serious about more research. If we can get a group buy together I'm in. I'm in without group buy also. Jim

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Looks like some of you guys need to band together and see what you can work out with Frantz - be sure to tell 'em TDR sent ya...

 

[Royk]

A quote from an article at bypassfilter.com:



"Filter Evaluation



We are presently using Gulf Coast filters on our ferries, motor graders, tandem dump trucks and parts washers. We are also using them to filter hydraulic fluid and reclaim or recycle antifreeze.



We found out about these filters in discussions with the Air Force test and evaluation unit at Eglin Air Force Base Florida. We discussed their use with Army and Air Force personnel at various locations throughout the United States. We also discussed their use with a variety of industry officials, including oil companies, throughout the United States. Every report we received was very positive. The most impressive of all was an Air Force report of the tear down and inspection of a series 60 (425HP) Detroit engine with 500,000 miles on it and only one oil change at 250,649 miles. The oil was inadvertently changed when a leaky oil pan gasket was replaced. At 500,000 miles the bearings measured the same as new bearings. No adjustments were required and the drained oil was put back in the engine. The truck now has over 700,000 miles and still no oil change. The filter is changed at 10,000 and the make-up oil keeps the additive package up.



These filters also absorb moisture so this, plus the additive package, prevents any acid build up. "







Gary,



Why don't you go with an extended drain interval? With oil that clean and such stellar analysis, I'd think you could go at least 10,000 miles between changes.



Roy

 

[Froadin]

I would still like to see the actual results of the testing done by the air force.

Also note, they are not telling you what oil was used for 500,000 miles, and the conditions it was put under. If you have a stationary setup, you are only going to see a few variables, and usually those are well taken care of. Unlike us who can seriously spike oil temps on long climbs towing heavy, and other situations like this.

It would still stand to reason that running a full true synthetic oil, and changing your TP filter out ever 3k that you should be fine for a LOT longer then our current intervals.

Too bad we can cheaply get an oil analysis on the condition of the oil itself rather then just what's in it.

Don't bust on landshark too badly, he was just playing devil's advocate. I personally still have more research to do before I step up and buy one. Gary showed us great results, and we know they work on many industrial applications with great success. But there are always more sides to every story.



Thanks again Gary, good pictures, good details, and good data to back up your claim.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Will this brand of toilet paper work in a bypass filter setup? :-laf



Good thread Gary!



Matt

P. S. I 'Photoshopped' the pic to remove the 'i'...

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"Why don't you go with an extended drain interval? With oil that clean and such stellar analysis, I'd think you could go at least 10,000 miles between changes. "



Strange you should suggest that...



I have been long involved with the synthetic oil users in these threads, whose major response to comments about the higher cost of synthetics is that they can endure extended oil drains with excellent results. BUT, what few know or acknowledge, is that common dino oil ALSO can endure about 32,000 miles with excellent protection - either synthetics OR dino oils primary enemy is CONTAMINATION from normal engine wear and other byproducts!



SO, to illustrate that fact, I had already planned to do an extended run out to 15,000 miles - maybe more - with normal TP changes and the one quart added makeup oil, which also restores depleted additive package components just as the synthetic guys do when they change their stock filters at regular intervals.



I will do oil analysis every 5-7000 miles to track wear and contaminents, including TBN - and you can bet yer sweet bippy, results will appear here! ;D



Sometimes ya gotta put yer money where yer mouth is!

 

[fkovalski]

oops!

Originally posted by Gary - KJ6Q

... . either synthetics OR dino oils primary enemy is CONTAMINATION from normal engine wear and other byproducts!... .

I got all excited about the benefits of the by- pass system as discussed here that I neglected to realize a benefit from the dealer of which I purchased my truck: I get free oil and filter changes every 3,000 miles for the life of my truck! They use dino oil of course. I am sure that others here may also do a similar oil change interval. As much as I believe the TP/ by- pass system to be an asset, I must ask myself if I really need to consider this option with the servicing as done by my dealer?