Anatomy of a Frantz toilet paper bypass oil filter

[Cal Brewin]

I just noticed in my report, TBN was 8. 2, not 8. 7 as I stated yesterday. Still waiting for my hard-copy.



Tom.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I just noticed in my report, TBN was 8. 2, not 8. 7 as I stated yesterday. Still waiting for my hard-copy.



Tom.

Nothing wrong with 8. 2 - still plenty high for protection.

 

[Cal Brewin]

ISO Code (2)= 14/11

ISO Code (3)= 15/14/11



PC Count is

>=2 Micron-353

>=5 Micron-130

>=10 Micron-36

>=15 Micron-14

>=25 Micron-3

>=50 Micron-0

>= 100 Micron-0





On my next run, I will try one TP change and see the results. I am not trying to save $ as TP is of course cheap. I was seeing if the TP would still flow(it was) and if it filtered finer as it loaded with contaminants. I think they did a good job for 7400 mi OCI . I am not happy about the Potassium 12ppm. I am not certain what is causing this. Hope it is not an antifreeze leak. Can fuel additive cause this?



Tom.



#ad

 

[steved]

Well, don't be waiting for a review of the new Luberfiner filter... they only sell the filters in cases of 6 filters... can't justify spending $450 on a head and 6 filters at this point. Maybe if I was starting from scratch...



I am going to keep my eye open for another bypass... see if something pops up. I have also considered building one that uses "c"-fold paper towels... but don't have the time...



I will only add that I'm at about 25k on this Amsoil EaBP100 and it is starting to plug off... I noticed it doesn't flow too well when it is "cold" (eg. below 40*F) when it flowed fine earlier this winter at temps approaching 0*F. I fully plan to cut it open to see how much garbage it has captured (I am fully expecting it to be a big ball of gooky nasty stuff). I find this interesting because Amsoil states 60k using their oil... what makes their oil less conducive to soot than any other oil??? Especially by half the mileage?



And with this in mind, those of you running a Frantz or Motorguard on the 04. 5+ trucks, have you ever given any thought to the effects of the added soot these newer engines produce? Gary's 2500/3000 mile changes work well for his "older" truck, but what about these 04. 5+ soot mongers? I would expect the change interval to be shortened somewhat?? What have your findings been??



steved

 

[amsoilman]

Well, don't be waiting for a review of the new Luberfiner filter... they only sell the filters in cases of 6 filters... can't justify spending $450 on a head and 6 filters at this point. Maybe if I was starting from scratch...



I am going to keep my eye open for another bypass... see if something pops up. I have also considered building one that uses "c"-fold paper towels... but don't have the time...



I will only add that I'm at about 25k on this Amsoil EaBP100 and it is starting to plug off... I noticed it doesn't flow too well when it is "cold" (eg. below 40*F) when it flowed fine earlier this winter at temps approaching 0*F. I fully plan to cut it open to see how much garbage it has captured (I am fully expecting it to be a big ball of gooky nasty stuff). I find this interesting because Amsoil states 60k using their oil... what makes their oil less conducive to soot than any other oil??? Especially by half the mileage?



And with this in mind, those of you running a Frantz or Motorguard on the 04. 5+ trucks, have you ever given any thought to the effects of the added soot these newer engines produce? Gary's 2500/3000 mile changes work well for his "older" truck, but what about these 04. 5+ soot mongers? I would expect the change interval to be shortened somewhat?? What have your findings been??



steved

Steve,

It would be nice to have you report on how much "crud" you have in the By-pass filter. As you know I have an 03 CTD. My last analysis (NOV 06) with 54,800 miles on the oil, showed soot 0. 78, and Viscosity was 14. 57 cSt@100 C. Which is an indicator of no oil breakdown. Have only changed filters 2 times, and added 4 Qts. oil.



Your question regarding "what makes their oil less conducive to soot than any other oil?"



The best engine oils control soot by keeping the tiny particles finely dispersed instead of letting them clump together. Although this process is not fully understood, we do know that it depends on additive chemistry and that some additives do a better job of this than others.



Wayne

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

And with this in mind, those of you running a Frantz or Motorguard on the 04. 5+ trucks, have you ever given any thought to the effects of the added soot these newer engines produce? Gary's 2500/3000 mile changes work well for his "older" truck, but what about these 04. 5+ soot mongers? I would expect the change interval to be shortened somewhat?? What have your findings been??

Most of the better oil analysis reports and clean dipsticks I have displayed here are from my older '91 truck, and the '02 BEFORE adding power mods and moving to this location where I do lots more short haul driving. In this new setting, and with added power mods, my truck is probably as bad or worse than the newer soot generators, and my oil and dipstick aren't NEARLY as visually impressive as they were previously. Yet, in spite of that, my oil analysis numbers and particle count reports are currently the best I have seen, on MY truck, or any others! Sometimes what we SEE visually isn't the whole story! :-laf

 

[steved]

Steve,

It would be nice to have you report on how much "crud" you have in the By-pass filter. As you know I have an 03 CTD. My last analysis (NOV 06) with 54,800 miles on the oil, showed soot 0. 78, and Viscosity was 14. 57 cSt@100 C. Which is an indicator of no oil breakdown. Have only changed filters 2 times, and added 4 Qts. oil.



Your question regarding "what makes their oil less conducive to soot than any other oil?"



The best engine oils control soot by keeping the tiny particles finely dispersed instead of letting them clump together. Although this process is not fully understood, we do know that it depends on additive chemistry and that some additives do a better job of this than others.



Wayne

I understand your points Wanye, but just because the oil keeps it dispersed, there comes a point in ANY oil where the dispersant becomes "overloaded" for lack of a better term... the soot aglomerates and you have the bypass filtering the clumps.



Explain to me how 3 gallons of oil "A" will hold X pounds of soot better than 3 gallons of oil "B"... the amount of soot loading and the amount of oil are constant. If the soot didn't aglomerate and become filtered in the bypass, your oil would increase in viscosity. I just can't see where there is THAT much difference (enough difference that would allow Amsoil to effectively DOUBLE the mileage a filter can run over dino)...



Maybe that's why I have been reading threads about the cleanliness of engines running Amsoil versus ones running Delo... I have read where several owners stated their engines are cleaner running Delo than those running Amsoil. Maybe the Amsoil does hold more soot in suspension and they are seeing the "film"??



Maybe that's why you have more "soot" in your analysis than I had in mine? Granted you have more miles, but I was only 0. 4% insolubles at 10k... the insolubles should theoretically platuea as the oil becomes saturated to the effective point of the filter???



steved

 

[amsoilman]

I understand your points Wanye, but just because the oil keeps it dispersed, there comes a point in ANY oil where the dispersant becomes "overloaded" for lack of a better term... the soot aglomerates and you have the bypass filtering the clumps.



Explain to me how 3 gallons of oil "A" will hold X pounds of soot better than 3 gallons of oil "B"... the amount of soot loading and the amount of oil are constant. If the soot didn't aglomerate and become filtered in the bypass, your oil would increase in viscosity. I just can't see where there is THAT much difference (enough difference that would allow Amsoil to effectively DOUBLE the mileage a filter can run over dino)...



Maybe that's why I have been reading threads about the cleanliness of engines running Amsoil versus ones running Delo... I have read where several owners stated their engines are cleaner running Delo than those running Amsoil. Maybe the Amsoil does hold more soot in suspension and they are seeing the "film"??



Maybe that's why you have more "soot" in your analysis than I had in mine? Granted you have more miles, but I was only 0. 4% insolubles at 10k... the insolubles should theoretically platuea as the oil becomes saturated to the effective point of the filter???



steved

Steve,

Calcium and Magnesium are the primary additives for dispersents in Engine oil.

Amsoil oils have huge amounts of Calcium and Magnesium in them, and that is the primary reason the oil is not "Licensed".

You say I had more soot in mine than yours. My oil has 5 times more miles than yours, how can you say mine is high in comparison?



I also said my Viscosity checked out at 14. 57 cSt@100 C. A NEW 40 grade oil has to be between 12. 5 cSt@100 C and 16. 3 cSt@100 C in order to pass the Viscosity tests. So as you can see, my oil is certainly in the middle of the specs. as far as Viscosity is concerned. If the oil had high concentrations of soot, the Viscosity would be elevated, and it is not.



I still am very much interested in how much "crud" you find in your by-pass filter.



Respecfully,





Wayne

 

[steved]

Wayne, the soot still has to go somewhere... ANY oil will reach a saturation point...



I guess I think about this too much... you will reach a saturation point whether the oil has more dispersants or not... once that saturation is reached, aglomeration should begin regardless of the dispersants in the oil...



steved

 

[steved]

Quick question: does the Gulf Coast use paper towels??

Nevermind, I just bought it for $90!!! I got an 0-1 model (not the Junior) that uses paper towels. Anyone running one with paper towels? The previous owner said he ran paper towels, but I was wondering if there was any particular brand that worked better than another?? Is there any modification needed to use paper towels instead of the OE filter cartridge??

I'm might plumb this in series with the Amsoil...

steved

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Here's a pointer for you Steve - might help:



http://www.gulfcoastfilters.com/scott_paper_co.htm

 

[steved]

Here's a pointer for you Steve - might help:



http://www.gulfcoastfilters.com/scott_paper_co.htm

I saw that... I read GCF's website pretty good... even if I buy their filter element, 100hr change intervals is roughly 5k miles... I guess I'll need to invest in an hour meter for the truck, they're cheap... they are pretty sketchy about mileage... probably 10k changes.



I just happened onto this 0-1 on eBay and not under "bypass"... I found it under "hydraulic filtration"... the seller was pretty cool, I called him on the phone and talked with him for a little bit. He even has some 0-2 units.



Now if I can use paper towels in it, I'll be all set. I'm thinking either the single ply paper towels used in public restrooms (the lever operated jobs)... or those blue "shop" towels... and I believe there are others that should look like rolls of TP, only longer too (if I can find them)...



steved

 

[amsoilman]

Wayne, the soot still has to go somewhere... ANY oil will reach a saturation point...



I guess I think about this too much... you will reach a saturation point whether the oil has more dispersants or not... once that saturation is reached, aglomeration should begin regardless of the dispersants in the oil...



steved

True Steve, any oil will reach a saturation point. However, ALL oils are different when it comes to Soot saturation. When the soot aglomerates to larger particles, the oil will also start to thicken up, and the viscosity will increase. Soot by the way is not the only thing that will thicken the oil.



All Diesel oils (API C grade oils) will have better dispersents to keep the soot in suspension, keeping it from clinging to the metals.



Wayne

 

[steved]

Although I haven't received it yet, here is another 0-1 GCF from the same guy...



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...Sell_LogicX&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget



steved

 

[ABrenneman]

First of all, I would like to mention I am brand new on this register. Last night I read all 47 pages on the Frantz topic. I want to commend Gary for all his legwork he has done, and i'm sure he has helped many on here. I would like to mention I have Frantz on my equipment as well. I have 3 mounted in a series on my Peterbilt, I have one polished on my VW trike, and I have one on each of my CTD. I have a 94, 12 valve with 250k miles, and a 03 with 77k miles. I'm an old guy like Gary, and I love to invent stuff, just plain tinker around, trying to make things better. I made a 3 piece sleeve, with an O-ring at the bottom, one in the middle, and 1 at the top. I get a great fit with the TP core. I buy the Scott 1000 12 pack, where the core is 1 5/8'' in diameter. I am a guy that hates to throw away all those wraps TP, so it fits in the canister, so I made a TP wrap machine. Very simple actually. I just roll the extra wraps on a new core, and eventually I wrapped myself another filter, with the excess. Since my old VW bug only has a screen and a magnet, the Frantz is very beneficial. I changed it today and noticed quite a bit of metal in the top on the dirty filter. This is the advantage of changing it yourself, where the spin on filter is much more difficult to cut apart. Afterall, we do run these bypass units for peace of mind. Stevd, I went on Ebay and bought the other GCF, like you did. I'm always experimenting for the best. If you find out what paper towels to use, please post it, or let me know. I was in 3 grocery stores today with my dial indicator, checking out dimensions on TP. People thought I was nuts. Sure looked at me strangely. Anyways, on my 94, I drilled a 3/8 hole in the bottom of the drain plug, welded a steel fitting on it, and I am returning my oil there. On my 03, I return to the oil cap. I found this cap to be quite wimpy, where I only got about 3 threads for the amsoil swivel. I got it to quit leaking by snapping it apart, cutting out 2 gaskets, out of rubber and cork, . 025 thick, and snapping it back together. It didn't leak but i didn't feel comfortable with it. After reading last night, I went to the auto parts store this morning and bought a stat 11111. It is at least twice as thick. I tapped it 3/8 x 24 fine threads and screwed it in. Then I took a 5/16 nut and drilled it out and tapped that. Screwed it together with a lock washer. I liked Gary's idea of the 3 inch copper tube to get the oil down further into the valve cover. I didn't have copper, but I did have a 3/8 steel brake line. The inside diameter is 5/16, perfect for cutting 3/8 fine threads. This is how I made my 3 inch extension. By the way, put locktite on all the threads for peace of mind.

 

[moparguy]

ABrenneman, welcome aboard. I've been happy with my Frantz. Good to hear from those who have been using them for years.



RJR

 

[ABrenneman]

I hope I didn't bore anyone with my post. Thanks for the welcome Moparguy.

 

[Flinty]

Anytime you feel like boring someone put it in writing here, my man!

 

[ABrenneman]

I have found using the original Frantz TP, which mic's out @ 4. 09 is too small. Almost everytime when I lift off the canister to change it, the TP remains on the shaft, and oil runs all over. It doesn't matter if I change it 30 to 45 minutes after shutdown, or letting it sit all night. What does work nicely tho, is when I take a Scot1000 roll, which mic's @ 4. 75 new, and turn it down to 4. 25''. It fits in the canister more snug, and always lifts off with the canister. BTY, with the Frantz cartridge, when I lift it off, the snap ring falls out immediately. I feel this ring is really pretty useless, without a groove cut into the canister. I had Deb Walker telll me about all these improvements made, but I hadn't seen any. I can only imagine the original ones must have been pretty crappy. The Frantz isn't perfect, and I would change some things if I could, but all and all, its a good filter that works. As far as paper dust getting into the oil, my opinion is it must happen, if it does, almost immediately. After 25 miles of a TP change, the TP is very solid when squeezing it.



I must comment like one other post I read, I never add a quart of oil to anything I own, and i'm running 5 of them. I like to take the old TP out and put it under a microscope, just to look for bad stuff. This way I know if the filter is doing its job, and have a pretty good idea what the inside of the engine looks like. Something which is very hard to do with a spin on filter. :-laf

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I have found using the original Frantz TP, which mic's out @ 4. 09 is too small. Almost everytime when I lift off the canister to change it, the TP remains on the shaft, and oil runs all over.

I haven't had that happen very often - but with the Frantz-supplied cartridges, I wrap the upper section with a few wraps of the blue paper shop towels - makes the cartridge a VERY tight fit into the canister, and a better seal at the TOP of the element to avoid oil flow bypassing down the outer edge...