Another frozen DEF tank - Solutions?

[Trucker_Mike]

Greets, I'm new to the diesel scene. I'll have lots of dumb questions later, but this issue blind-sighted me and is major showstopper. I've read some threads on the topic but haven't found my answer. Just bought a 2014 3500 RAM Crew/6.7/DRW/long box last week for hot-shot hauling. Only 18K Km's on it. My first run began with getting that "Service DEF System See Dealer" message when I started up in -27C temp yesterday morning. The message flashed pretty quick and it's not in the stored messages. Ok, some background:

DEF guage was at 3/4 level when I took delivery of the truck (was kept in heated bay overnight). Ran a couple tanks of fuel with running around to outfit the truck, DEF dropped to 1/2. Then I get the message as above. Delivered a trailer (4 hours towing), DEF now in the red zone, so I grab a jug to put in and find the tank frozen with crystalline/ice. I can just touch it with my finger in the filler hole. Called the dealer and they say that they have been getting "lots" of calls on frozen DEF due to the recent cold snaps, mostly on 1500's and just needs to be thawed out - keep the truck running. Riiight.... I return home Friday evening (another 4 hours) and DEF now at 1/8th. Seems the monitored portion of the tank level must not be frozen and DEF is processing through the system as required. Tank still frozen at the top. I don't know how much longer it will run before the system complains and begins the shutdown process, so she's sitting in my driveway.

I have to be in Indiana at 8 a.m. on Monday for my next trailer pickup, and as it's Saturday now there is nobody that has a bay or garage available to thaw the truck out. Does anyone think I can thaw it by use of a heating pad or some other form blasting heat against the tank to get the top half back to liquid? Temp outside this morning is about -11 C and should hold till Sunday evening when it will drop to -17-24C.

I live near Peterborough, ON. about 70 miles NE of Toronto.

Thanks in advance for any tips.

Mike

 

[RVTRKN]

Some 2013 & 14's did not have the chassi heaters turned on, check with the dealer. Thread on this in 4th gen forum.

 

[RVTRKN]

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/245765-Most-2013-and-some-2014-NO-fuel-heater-engaged

 

[sag2]

You will have to get the filler thawed to add more DEF. A hair drier, small space heater? It will eventually de-rate and then not start again if you don't get it filled. Can you find any (Ford, Chevy etc.) dealer open today and get it in their shop to thaw?
By the way, the DEF tank has nothing to do with the fuel heater listed above.

 

[DonFitzwater]

Just for future reference, don't fill your tank completely. I have only had the service message pop up once and it was due to the tank being frozen solid at -50. Truck ran fine and the message went away after a couple hours of driving as the remainder of the tank thawed.

 

[Brocky]

If you do not have a hair dryer handy, the exhaust side of a shop vac should push enough warm air to thaw out the filler neck so you can add more DEF.

 

[Trucker_Mike]

Update, got under and found the filler hose was pliable/empty and it was just the funnel inside the filler was frozen. Did the hair dryer routine and it eventually melted. Got a jug of fluid in and the level guage went up to 1/4. I had never filled it before, so I suppose the dealer had it too full and that bit never got to thaw out. Live-n-learn.

Thanks for your replies, I'll work on my newbie question list as I stumble on things

Mike

 

[mpaulson]

As for refilling it, like Don mentioned, in the winter I wait till mine shows 1/4 tank, then dump one 10L +/- jug in and that gets it to just over 3/4 tank. We're not supposed to fill it right up when there is the potential for freezing. In the summer when it gets to the 1/2 tank mark, you can put a full 10L jug in. This is how I manage my fill's. I would say the problem you've had is not normal, I've never had a problem and between last winter and a few times this winter it's been in the -40C a few times.

 

[EDankievitch]

Where does it say not to fill up the DEF tank full in the winter months?

 

[Newsa]

Def tank is supposed to be heated by batteries. But like the chassis fuel heater might not be turned on? I would imagine the DEF tank has a trickle charged heater sort of like the supposed heated mirrors. If you notice they don't do a whole lot of heating or defogging. Look underneath and it looks like the def tank is made out of heavy plastic? It is just forward of the fuel tank. Doesn't look like it could take much heat so I'm sure the heater is not going to keep the whole tank in frozen because they can't are putting a trickle of energy to it. Choice of plastic may bebecause it insulates better than metal.

 

[Bob4x4]

Each of the Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) system hoses has a built in heater to warm the fluid in the line. The line heater has power supplied to it via the DEF Dosing Control Module. The Line heater circuits are monitored on the return side of the circuit.

 

[mpaulson]

Where does it say not to fill up the DEF tank full in the winter months?

On page 162 &163 of the 2014 owners manual it says not to top off the tank. It doesn't say not to fill it, just don't top it off. I guess now that I've read it again, I must have come up with the 3/4" tank idea myself just to be on the safe side. But topping it off would cause the freezing in the filler neck because it would get colder faster that the larger mass of def fluid in the main tank. As well depending on where you live, I could get exposed to a week of -40 temperatures and I would hate to get caught with this right after I just filled it up. The manual does say that if the tank is full and it freezes up, it could damage the tank and the parts in it due to expanding while frozen.

 

[crispyboy]

While I don't have a newer truck to even know what the DEF tank looks like....

Could an electric battery blanket be used on the tank? Could it be ran off an inverter while going down the highway?

http://www.fivestarmanufacturing.com/kat_s

 

[EDankievitch]

I took the "do not top off" to prevent you from spilling the DEF all over the side of the truck and getting it in to the fuel tank with the capless fuel filler system. I think the issue I have with my truck is one or both of the DEF tank and line heaters are not working. Every time the temp dips below 15 degrees I get the CEL lamp for the ammonia sensor. It will clear when the temp goes above 28 degrees...

 

[MLee]

How about a seat heater that you install to keep your BUTT warm? 12 volt runs these and if frozen/or cold enough, you could just turn it on. Warm weather turn it off. Small enough to wrap it around that tank.

 

[mwilson]

This is from Mitsubishi Fuso Truck but the principle should apply just the same...

 

[Moab4444]

I would not put additional heat on the tank when not running. This is a water solution and any additional heat and change the percent of the solution. Only heat enough to thaw not to keep warm like a block heater performs.

 

[BigPapa]

I thought our school buses had an electric heating element as part of the header unit but it is a tube that carries engine coolant.