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Any truth to this new Calif law?
- Thread starter illflem
- Start Date
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Pit, way before the Gold Rush. Those hills were all covered with redwoods before I got done with 'em. 
Joe, northern Cal water is only used for irrigation in the Sac. Valley. South of the delta in the San Joaquin the irrigation water mainly comes from reservoirs and cannels from the Sierras, none of the southern rivers make it to the valley in their natural riverbeds except in flood years nowadays. Good thing this was all done a century ago, you sure couldn't pull it off now.
Joe, northern Cal water is only used for irrigation in the Sac. Valley. South of the delta in the San Joaquin the irrigation water mainly comes from reservoirs and cannels from the Sierras, none of the southern rivers make it to the valley in their natural riverbeds except in flood years nowadays. Good thing this was all done a century ago, you sure couldn't pull it off now.
When I retired back in 98 I looked at moving to ID. Wy. NV. and MT. I love Lake Tahoe area, both Calf. and NV sides. I also liked Boise ID. area. My wife has family in the Miles city area MT. Ended up in SW Missouri because of family, Mom is now in a nursing home, need to stay close. Now that I have lived here for 5 years it has really grown on me. Like the song says, you don't alway get what you want but you get what you need.
Bill,
Since the central valley water project was completed there is a large pipe system west of the grapevine part of I5 with pumping stations moving water from the valley to LA. You can see it easy from the highway. Very large canal system moving the water from the northern rivers to that system. All this has made the water wars more intense than ever. So far an attempt to get water from the Trinity River to Whiskeytown in order to send it south has been stopped, at least for now. LA is going to have to recyle water or get it from the ocean eventually. Or, heaven forbid, stop growing.
Since the central valley water project was completed there is a large pipe system west of the grapevine part of I5 with pumping stations moving water from the valley to LA. You can see it easy from the highway. Very large canal system moving the water from the northern rivers to that system. All this has made the water wars more intense than ever. So far an attempt to get water from the Trinity River to Whiskeytown in order to send it south has been stopped, at least for now. LA is going to have to recyle water or get it from the ocean eventually. Or, heaven forbid, stop growing.
I did not say that I knew everything about CA, just why some people might refer to it as the land of fruits and nuts, I usually just say "the left coast"
I told you I had the valley name wrong, but southern CA gets a large part of the Colorado river water, where I live they just plant seed and let it grow, no irrigation needed
my basic opinion of CA is that the climate is nice, the politics suck and it is all irrelevant anyways since I do not make enough money to even rent a run down mobile home in a crappy park anywhere near where I could get a job out there where I can afford a nice house here
I told you I had the valley name wrong, but southern CA gets a large part of the Colorado river water, where I live they just plant seed and let it grow, no irrigation needed
my basic opinion of CA is that the climate is nice, the politics suck and it is all irrelevant anyways since I do not make enough money to even rent a run down mobile home in a crappy park anywhere near where I could get a job out there where I can afford a nice house here
Joe, I was saying the Calif aqueduct water isn't used for irrigation in the San Joaquin Valley, it just passes though on it's way south. At the Grapevine part of the water is pumped over the mountains to LA, rest flows over towards Lancaster then on to it's end at Lake Silverwood north of San Bernardino. From there it goes under the mountains and ends up feeding the Riverside - San Diego area. Very little of the Calif aqueduct water is used for irrigation, it's city water. The irrigation aqueducts are on the east side of the valley with each Sierra river feeding it's own district.
One of my first jobs was working on the Calif aqueduct and I-5, government was smart back then to do both at once.
The aqueduct is truely an engineering marvel, the water is only pumped once into San Luis Reservoir by Los Banos, then again over the Grapevine to LA. The rest is all gravity with a few hydro-electric plants along the way that produce enough power to do the pumping. It does leak pretty bad though.
LA spent millions of dollars engineering an aqueduct from the Columbia River down though eastern OR and Nevada. Who knows, someday it might fly.
One of my first jobs was working on the Calif aqueduct and I-5, government was smart back then to do both at once.
The aqueduct is truely an engineering marvel, the water is only pumped once into San Luis Reservoir by Los Banos, then again over the Grapevine to LA. The rest is all gravity with a few hydro-electric plants along the way that produce enough power to do the pumping. It does leak pretty bad though.
LA spent millions of dollars engineering an aqueduct from the Columbia River down though eastern OR and Nevada. Who knows, someday it might fly.
Eric,
I still resent the simplistic label of "fruits and nuts" for something like 30 million people as if all of us are the same and think the same. Same thing with the unsubtle label of "left coast". I had a good friend who lived in Hamilton, OH (smokes, booze, and too much rich chow did him in) so I have spent quite a bit of time there in the '80s when I worked a consulting contract for him. We used to get a shot and a beer after work in a little bar in the older part of Hamilton that I can't remember the name of. That does not make me feel I know anything about the politics of the Cincinnati area or any other part of Ohio. I suspect the politics of rural OH differs from urban OH, but I don't know that for sure.
As far as irrigation is concerned that is how crops are grown here. You are not going to get three crops a year as many areas out here do just by depending on natural rainfall.
If you want a demonstration of how different Californians think just get a bunch of them together from different parts of the state to discuss water. You will need to call the cops and ambulances before too long after the start of the discussion.
I still resent the simplistic label of "fruits and nuts" for something like 30 million people as if all of us are the same and think the same. Same thing with the unsubtle label of "left coast". I had a good friend who lived in Hamilton, OH (smokes, booze, and too much rich chow did him in) so I have spent quite a bit of time there in the '80s when I worked a consulting contract for him. We used to get a shot and a beer after work in a little bar in the older part of Hamilton that I can't remember the name of. That does not make me feel I know anything about the politics of the Cincinnati area or any other part of Ohio. I suspect the politics of rural OH differs from urban OH, but I don't know that for sure.
As far as irrigation is concerned that is how crops are grown here. You are not going to get three crops a year as many areas out here do just by depending on natural rainfall.
If you want a demonstration of how different Californians think just get a bunch of them together from different parts of the state to discuss water. You will need to call the cops and ambulances before too long after the start of the discussion.
Life is a little too short, I think, to worry about "stealers" fruits & nust, Left coast, etc.
Lighten up, Francis. Laugh a little.
Lighten up, Francis. Laugh a little.
the instigator of all instigators says ...
"Life is a little too short, I think, to worry about "stealers" fruits & nust, Left coast, etc.
Lighten up, Francis. Laugh a little. "... . Gene your a little out of character here
"Life is a little too short, I think, to worry about "stealers" fruits & nust, Left coast, etc.
Lighten up, Francis. Laugh a little. "... . Gene your a little out of character here
Finding a green core under the Republican red
I found this article interesting
By Mark Paul -- Bee Deputy Editorial Page Editor
Sacramento Bee
Sunday, April 13, 2003
In geographic terms, it's 35 miles from Folsom to Davis. But ask
anyone to estimate the political distance between those two towns, and chances are good that the answer will come back measured in light years.
We all know the stereotypes. Davis is supposed to be the Sacramento region's Berkeley East, home to tree-hugging, Volvo-driving, peace-marching, Democratic-voting, tofu-chomping elitists hostile to growth and economic development.
And Folsom, like the other new communities growing up around the region -- Sprinkler Cities, as writer David Brooks has cleverly
dubbed them -- is supposed to be the polar opposite. It's the home to what Brooks calls Patio Man and Sprawl People: SUV-driving, churchgoing, Republican-voting, golf-playing security seekers hostile to restraints on free enterprise and property.
These are comic book capsules, of course, but they say something real about our politics.
Think for a moment about that striking map from the 2000 presidential election, the one that portrayed the county-by-county vote for Al Gore and George Bush. It showed the expansive red Bush heartland, spotted with blue lakes of cities that voted for Gore and washed on both coasts by a blue Democratic sea.
If you could zoom down in that map from the state and county level to look at the individual pixels, precinct by precinct, you'd find that the beach where blue meets red runs somewhere through the middle of this region, along about Watt Avenue. There the long fiord of Democratic blue that flows up I-80 out of the Bay Area meets the red
rock of the GOP continent.
In its voting habits, the city of Davis belongs to the coast; Folsom
belongs to the suburban crescent of Sprinkler Cities on the east side of the region that now vote more reliably conservative than Orange County, long the bellwether of California Republicanism.
But what the stereotypes tell about partisan leanings obscures a
hidden nugget of opinion gold: When it comes to the concerns central to this region's growth future, there's not as much distance between Berkeley East and Sprinkler City as the stereotypes suggest.
Recent polls conducted by political consultants for cities and other
clients strikingly show that anxieties about the pace and impacts of urban growth are beginning to swell not just in environmental hotbeds but in Sprinkler Cities, too. The numbers suggest a widespread public hunger to get local planning right before it's too late.
Nobody who lives by the stereotypes will be surprised to learn that a poll last year in Davis found 83 percent of voters there listed growth as that community's biggest or second-biggest problem.
But it was an eye-opener when a poll in Folsom, commissioned by the
city and conducted by J. Moore Methods, found that 89 percent
consider managing growth and development as a top city priority and two-thirds are dissatisfied with the way the city is handling it.
In Davis, 80 percent of voters told pollsters they were concerned to save open space; in Folsom, the number was 82 percent, with slightly more than half of voters dissatisfied with the way the city was handling the issue. Only a third said they supported expanding Folsom by 3,600 acres south of Highway 50 into the blue oak woodlands. (By contrast, three quarters of them supported raising Folsom Dam by 10 feet. )
The story is much the same in another growing city, Elk Grove. A
recent assessment poll done for that city found 85 percent of voters identified managing growth and development as a top priority, right up there with police protection and keeping taxes affordable. Almost as many cited protecting the environment and preserving farmland and open space.
But slightly more than half reported they were dissatisfied with the way the city was handling those issues. About the same percentage oppose having Elk Grove grow to a population of 150,000 over the next 20 years, as the city's general plan envisages. Political consultants who are closely watching the shifting attitudes say that Elk Grove is tracking only about two or threeyears behind Folsom in its movement toward developing a slow-growth politics.
Finding a green core under the Republican red shouldn't be entirelyshocking. For years in El Dorado Hills, that conservative bastion, it's been political death in local politics to be associated too closely with growth and development. In the last election, developers like Angelo Tsakopoulos laundered their contributions to candidates through the deputy sheriffs to avoid tainting their favorites in the public's eye.
But the pace of the attitude shifts across the region is so swift thatleaders are scrambling to catch up.
Business and political officials looking to get voter support to
extend the transportation sales tax in Sacramento County, which must be renewed by 2008, have figured out they can't expect to win if road improvements are seen as inducing unwanted growth and lost open space. Political consultants are figuring out that quality-of-life issues will have big appeal in future local elections in suburban cities.
If changing attitudes are any guide, the next generation of
successful candidates in Sprinkler Cities won't come out of the old
builder/anti-environmental mold of John Doolittle. They'll harken
back to an earlier style, the Republicanism of Theodore Roosevelt,
the one who put the "conserve" in conservatism. Because,
increasingly, that's where the votes will be.
I found this article interesting
By Mark Paul -- Bee Deputy Editorial Page Editor
Sacramento Bee
Sunday, April 13, 2003
In geographic terms, it's 35 miles from Folsom to Davis. But ask
anyone to estimate the political distance between those two towns, and chances are good that the answer will come back measured in light years.
We all know the stereotypes. Davis is supposed to be the Sacramento region's Berkeley East, home to tree-hugging, Volvo-driving, peace-marching, Democratic-voting, tofu-chomping elitists hostile to growth and economic development.
And Folsom, like the other new communities growing up around the region -- Sprinkler Cities, as writer David Brooks has cleverly
dubbed them -- is supposed to be the polar opposite. It's the home to what Brooks calls Patio Man and Sprawl People: SUV-driving, churchgoing, Republican-voting, golf-playing security seekers hostile to restraints on free enterprise and property.
These are comic book capsules, of course, but they say something real about our politics.
Think for a moment about that striking map from the 2000 presidential election, the one that portrayed the county-by-county vote for Al Gore and George Bush. It showed the expansive red Bush heartland, spotted with blue lakes of cities that voted for Gore and washed on both coasts by a blue Democratic sea.
If you could zoom down in that map from the state and county level to look at the individual pixels, precinct by precinct, you'd find that the beach where blue meets red runs somewhere through the middle of this region, along about Watt Avenue. There the long fiord of Democratic blue that flows up I-80 out of the Bay Area meets the red
rock of the GOP continent.
In its voting habits, the city of Davis belongs to the coast; Folsom
belongs to the suburban crescent of Sprinkler Cities on the east side of the region that now vote more reliably conservative than Orange County, long the bellwether of California Republicanism.
But what the stereotypes tell about partisan leanings obscures a
hidden nugget of opinion gold: When it comes to the concerns central to this region's growth future, there's not as much distance between Berkeley East and Sprinkler City as the stereotypes suggest.
Recent polls conducted by political consultants for cities and other
clients strikingly show that anxieties about the pace and impacts of urban growth are beginning to swell not just in environmental hotbeds but in Sprinkler Cities, too. The numbers suggest a widespread public hunger to get local planning right before it's too late.
Nobody who lives by the stereotypes will be surprised to learn that a poll last year in Davis found 83 percent of voters there listed growth as that community's biggest or second-biggest problem.
But it was an eye-opener when a poll in Folsom, commissioned by the
city and conducted by J. Moore Methods, found that 89 percent
consider managing growth and development as a top city priority and two-thirds are dissatisfied with the way the city is handling it.
In Davis, 80 percent of voters told pollsters they were concerned to save open space; in Folsom, the number was 82 percent, with slightly more than half of voters dissatisfied with the way the city was handling the issue. Only a third said they supported expanding Folsom by 3,600 acres south of Highway 50 into the blue oak woodlands. (By contrast, three quarters of them supported raising Folsom Dam by 10 feet. )
The story is much the same in another growing city, Elk Grove. A
recent assessment poll done for that city found 85 percent of voters identified managing growth and development as a top priority, right up there with police protection and keeping taxes affordable. Almost as many cited protecting the environment and preserving farmland and open space.
But slightly more than half reported they were dissatisfied with the way the city was handling those issues. About the same percentage oppose having Elk Grove grow to a population of 150,000 over the next 20 years, as the city's general plan envisages. Political consultants who are closely watching the shifting attitudes say that Elk Grove is tracking only about two or threeyears behind Folsom in its movement toward developing a slow-growth politics.
Finding a green core under the Republican red shouldn't be entirelyshocking. For years in El Dorado Hills, that conservative bastion, it's been political death in local politics to be associated too closely with growth and development. In the last election, developers like Angelo Tsakopoulos laundered their contributions to candidates through the deputy sheriffs to avoid tainting their favorites in the public's eye.
But the pace of the attitude shifts across the region is so swift thatleaders are scrambling to catch up.
Business and political officials looking to get voter support to
extend the transportation sales tax in Sacramento County, which must be renewed by 2008, have figured out they can't expect to win if road improvements are seen as inducing unwanted growth and lost open space. Political consultants are figuring out that quality-of-life issues will have big appeal in future local elections in suburban cities.
If changing attitudes are any guide, the next generation of
successful candidates in Sprinkler Cities won't come out of the old
builder/anti-environmental mold of John Doolittle. They'll harken
back to an earlier style, the Republicanism of Theodore Roosevelt,
the one who put the "conserve" in conservatism. Because,
increasingly, that's where the votes will be.
My instigations are always rooted in the funny, it is just some are so wrapped in the printed word, they don't get it!!!
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
TSB Updates
Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
Cameron Collection
What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
Advertising
