Guns, Bows, Shooting Sports, and Hunting Ar 15

[AMink]

I like my Ruger SR556. It's a piston drive as opposed to gas. A little heavier perhaps but haven't had a hiccup yet. The price was right as it was a 50th Bday gift! If I had to buy it myself I would have got a regular one and saved some money. Check out Palmetto State Armory. They have a ton of parts and pieces if you want to build your own.

 

[wyosteve]

I have a Mossberg MMR waiting to be picked up. Good reviews on it. It will be my first AR so we'll see.

 

[moparguy]

I do seem to be in the minority...my first M16 experience was Fort Polk La in May of 1970, didn't care much for them then (I was lucky enough to fire expert and got a 3 day pass for being one of top three in my company with one though). I shot a buds high end Ar 15 last year at the range and still was very under-whammed. Accurate, you bet, but the buffer spring rattle and general lack of that "quality" feel you get from a good bolt gun leave me wanting a dip of snuff and a cold cup of coffee. Guess I know why they make vanilla and chocolate.

 

[The patriot]

It's definitely NOT a bolt rifle.
Even the old M-14 and M1 Garands (lock, stock & barrel) are entirely different.
I run a flatwire spring and keep it lubed. I'm pretty sure it's quiet, but that can be my hearing loss....

 

[JDiehl]

You can die from a slug out of a cheap rifle just as quick from an over priced rifle. bang bang.

JDiehl

 

[mrbb]

You can die from a slug out of a cheap rifle just as quick from an over priced rifle. bang bang.

JDiehl

or from OLD guns as to new one's

I would maybe bet more folks died from being shot with old black powder guns than modern center fire weapons too! LOL

never judge a book by its cover right!

having sold guns and trained shooters for 20+ yrs
, trust me, more gun owners cannot hit you at a 100 yrs with a few boxes of ammo, unless they got lucky LOL

its almost sad, how poor many gun owners can shoot, even with top high end guns HAHA!

and military and Police are NO different here (SADLY)
as I trained many of both
most folks in the service DON"T see very much range time to be honest!, so its not like being in the service means you come out a gun expert shooting machine, far from it from MY experience for MOST< NOT ALL!
LOL

 

[The patriot]

In my (limited) experiences, if youre not active in the shooting sports....at least somewhat active, the general quality of the individuals shooting is quite low.
This is across the board, mil, le,civilian.
jm.02

 

[RXT]

I can relate. I try to hit the range as often as possible and I set my targets out to max distance (Indoor range 45yds) The AR is not a problem, the challenge is with my 45 and 380. If you can hit the targets consistently at this range, anything at the 15 yd line is a breeze, which seems to be where everyone else shooting pistols is at. :roll eyes:

Ed

 

[The patriot]

What I mean by active is in the lines of 10-20K rounds a year. Or more.
Not a box of 22's every couple weeks.
I'm not replying to you RTX, I'm just saying in general.

 

[RXT]

It's Ok, I don't mind responding.

Sadly I wish I could afford 10-20k rounds each year, because I do love to shoot. But ammo does get pretty pricey after awhile, especially with several types of firearms to feed. So in my case, I'll admit. I just shoot off a few boxes of ammo every couple of weeks. It's better to get in some range time than none at all

Ed

 

[BIGNASTY]

What I mean by active is in the lines of 10-20K rounds a year. Or more.
Not a box of 22's every couple weeks.
I'm not replying to you RTX, I'm just saying in general.

Patriot watch out those 22 comments will get you in a tidal pool of XXXX some people don't like it when you buy more than you can shoot and wont leave any for the kiddies :-laf

PS. I didn't before but now I BUY EVERY LAST BOX I SEE, I DON'T CARE HOW MUCH THEY FRIGGING COST

 

[NIsaacs]

You can die from a slug out of a cheap rifle just as quick from an over priced rifle. bang bang.

JDiehl

This past summer I was in Cal-Ranch and impulse bought a Del-Ton DT Sport that was 20% off, it is still in a sealed box, lol. All I know about it, is it is made in the USA. Like Clint Eastwood in Unforgiven, my weapon of choice at home is a short barreled 16 gauge, backed up with a Ruger Blackhawk loaded with #9 shot, then backed up with a Smith 586 as last resort, I don't see is good as I used to...

Nick

 

[The patriot]

10-20K isnt too expensive if you reload. My little brother is/was sponsored, so that helps. To get there takes dedication, like taking your lunch at the range etc etc.
I used to be close to being that good, then things happened.
Some call it "growing up" .....putting a roof over your head, wife job etc etc.
Now that I have some resemblance of spare time, I'm out of money!
Oh well...

As far as your behavior Big.....If you'd stop scrounging all the 22lr, some might eventually make it back east for us guys.

RTX, FWIW dry firing is also very good. If you get to a point that you're "that good" a lot of it can be maintained by 1-2 hrs a day of dry fire....for some at least. My little bro took the ipsc del-mar-va area cup one year doing just this a couple years ago. He's more a tactical long range rifle and 3 gunner now, and quite competitive at that too.

 

[The patriot]

I dont know much about del-ton.
I suggest daniel defense, colt, or BCM.
Theyre NOT cheap, but who knows what the future holds....

 

[Deleted member 995608]

^^ I like BCM stuff. I have a BCM auto bolt and middy upper on one of mine. Good finish and fit and zero issues.

 

[HHhuntitall]

Well, personally, I like the idea of a cheaper model if you're not going to be shooting 10-20k rounds a year. I've done that, with Service Rifle, handguns, and bolt guns. As stated above, it's a full time procedure. I'm more fortunate than most, as I still get to shoot while on the job fairly often. I've also traded a few rifles, so I've had DPMS/Bushmaster/Remingtons, as well as Colt, Danial Defense, Stag, Olympic, Armalite, Palmetto State Armory, Bravo Company..... the list gets long. But if it's assembled right, with even mediocre parts, it should shoot better than most people out there, tying in to what was stated earlier. If you can shoot it, like to shoot it, and hit with it, have fun! I'm personally carrying two Palmetto State rifles at the moment, a PA-10 and a multi-cal lower I put a Wilson Combat 300Blackout barrel on, shooting both suppressed. Prior to that, my favorite was an Olympic Arms .243WSSM, which followed an Olympic Ultramatch .223. And I like to reach out with them, so even with a .223/5.56, I shoot out over 400 yds easily, so you can't tell me they're not accurate, when I'm hitting 10" targets regularly at 600 yards. Granted, that is with handloaded ammunition, but still makes the point that the rifles shoot if assembled correctly with good components.

Another rifle I'm shooting/playing with at the moment is a Savage Axis in .223. I bought it to teach my son to shoot, and I've been carrying it to prove it. It's claimed several coyotes this month, as well as 4 hogs, two cats, and a skunk. It's not the most accurate with the M855 surplus ammo, but it works well.

Ammo selection should be addressed here, as well. Don't buy "Silver Bear" ammo and expect to go to a 600 yard competition and do something glorious. Even mil-surplus ammo is mediocre at best. And when shooting hogs, 50gr hollowpoints are not gonna kill them on the spot if you don't shoot them in the eye or ear. The M855 62gr will kill them, and work great, but know the limitations of your round. Hogs are tough animals, and even if shot with a .50 BMG, they can run off. I've had it happen. I lined up 4 at one time, and three ran off over 200 yards. The last one was the only one that died right there, where the bullet had begun to mushroom some, and it just happened to catch the spine. The other three died shortly thereafter, but only had round holes in them, with exit holes slightly larger than the entrance.

 

[mrbb]

I"ll add a little more info on Ammo
I Highly recommend NO one shoot Steel cased Ammo out of there AR's
its been a known problem for AR's
AK"S yes
AR's no
that crappy lacquer coating on steel cased ammo comes off in AR's and builds up around the firing pin and has broken a LOT of guys firing pin's, NOT that firing pin's are expensive, but why damage a good gun??

its also HARD on chambers, and can build up in there and cause clambering issue's(seen it get so thick it would dent cases) as well as faster wear on chambers

depending on the rifling in your barrel, will also dictate what grain heads SHOULD shoot the best out of your barrel
which brings up barrel life spans

NOT all rifle barrels are of same quality metals, or types of rifling
20k out of an ar is getting up there if NOT past the point of needing a new barrel, alot here will depend on HOW fast you are shooting ammo, how hot you let the barrel get, how fast the ammo is sending bullets down the bore, types of bullets and so on

BUT accuracy starts to go south in about 2500 rounds , ask any top long range shooter how often they replace a barrel??

NOW in a hand gun or a .22, THEM you will be hard pressed to shoot out a barrel
when I sold guns, I cannot tell you how many times I was asked if a HAND gun was shot out, if OLD owner worn the gun out shooting it
I used to tell it to them this way, say a box of 50 rounds is 10 bucks(not many this price today LOL) and a basic say Glock, or like gun is good for about 150,000 rounds
do the math, HOW many folks could afford to shoot the gun enough to wear it out??

that's about 30,000 in ammo buying it at one box at a time, when ammo was cheaper, OK< say you reload
and cost you HALF( which is being kind) that's 15k on ammo
SO< how many folks really can wear out a modern handgun with modern NON corrosive ammo??
NOT MANY
biggest thing with USED guns IMO< is abuse done to hard parts
like all the FOLKS that LOVE to drop the slide on an empty chamber, for that MOVIE noise it makes
THAT"S BAD folks
talk to anyone that spend a BUNCH of cash on a BUILT up 1911, if they cringe when they see that happen
that's METAL TO METAL and NOT the way its should be when its loading a round!, that accelerated wear and tear and ruins all that HIGH end tight tolerance accuracy that folks pay TOP dollar for!

so, how often a gun is cleaned, and its USE firing and NOT firing have more to do with condition, than HOW many round MOST folks will shot thru a USED HAND GUN
rifle??
well there they can shoot rifling out of them if there so willing to do so

we did a few torture tests with M-16's running mag after mag to see how long a barrel would hold up, and we would shoot them till(and DON"T TRY THIS AT HOME) till barrels were cherry red and then we shot the ends off before stopping
and it didn't take as many rounds as many I bet would think, I don't recall the exact number of rounds(this was in the early 90's)
but under a 2,000 round NON stop for sure

on a few we did group testing, we shot the rifling out of some H&K rifles in about 20 non stop full auto 30 rnd mag firing's(again forget exact number of mags, been a LONG time, but wasn't all that many)
to where bullets would be hitting targets tumbling!!
again these where extreme testing and some RED hot barrels

so, gain HOW fast you shoot can take away yrs of use from a normal few rounds then cool, and then some more like firing!!

barrels are ALL wear when your sending bullets down that at speed! LOL

 

[The patriot]

HH, I'm suprised the 855 isnt showing pressure signs, but I have heard the savage chamber is more like an 5.56mm NATO....so.....
FWIW I'd like to see the Axis offered in 1/7 or 1/8 twist....Or even better a 260 rem or Creedmoor.

I concur on the steel case stuff. AK's and SKS's were designed around it. AR's not so much. I reload, so I'll NEVER use that craapp.

 

[Deleted member 995608]

I don't shoot steel cases either

 

[RXT]

10-20K isnt too expensive if you reload. My little brother is/was sponsored, so that helps. To get there takes dedication, like taking your lunch at the range etc etc.
I used to be close to being that good, then things happened.
Some call it "growing up" .....putting a roof over your head, wife job etc etc.
Now that I have some resemblance of spare time, I'm out of money!
Oh well...

As far as your behavior Big.....If you'd stop scrounging all the 22lr, some might eventually make it back east for us guys.

RTX, FWIW dry firing is also very good. If you get to a point that you're "that good" a lot of it can be maintained by 1-2 hrs a day of dry fire....for some at least. My little bro took the ipsc del-mar-va area cup one year doing just this a couple years ago. He's more a tactical long range rifle and 3 gunner now, and quite competitive at that too.

I don't reload my own. Don't own any equipment to do so either, although strangely, I do collect my brass.
You know, I forgot to mention dry firing. Theres also a nifty little laser practice round that can work too

Ed