Are they all made in Mexico?

[lightsOUT]

UAW is what sent he jobs to mexico. Hmmm $60 an hour for labor or $25??? If you owned the company, where would you get your labor? All things being equal price wins. If the trucks are made completely in the US theyd cost you about $70K

BS. how many execuatives make over 1,000,000 a year??? heaven forbid their $20,000,000 bonus is diminished by just a nickel. its funny how its always the fault of labor. especially if the labor is organized. how much of the entire work force of chrysler is UAW? you'd be suprised to find out its very little. the UAW workers are only in the US or Canada. they make cars all over the world. they make parts all over the world. they sell and ship cars all over the world. have offices all over the world. and yet they still seem to fail. it comes down to corporate greed. guess what. some foreign cars (namely european built) are built with organized labor. those companies seem to do fine selling cars in the US, and thats even after they pay import tarrifs.



our trucks have been built in mexico for sometime now. as well as many other cars. and they still seemed to fail. hmmmmmm..... maybe its not just the UAW after all?

 

[Jeff Knight]

lightsOUT, Couldn't have said it better. It'a amazing how its always our fault... . Jeff

 

[CBlack]

Do both of you work for the UAW in the auto industry?

 

[Jeff Knight]

I work for Harley-Davidson with the IAM union... . Jeff

 

[Grizzly]

I have to say my 95 built in St Louis was a better truck than my current 02 built in Mexico... . Jeff

Your St. Louis built truck must be an exception because everyone else Mexican built trucks are always better then St. Louis built trucks. It's sad to say that the auto workers in Mexico can out perform our UAW with the same parts and at a cheaper labor rate.



It's no wonder our manufacturing business is getting out sourced.

 

[lightsOUT]

Do both of you work for the UAW in the auto industry?

speaking for me, no.

 

[DanSullivan]

I had a 95 2500, it was a great truck its still running fine sold it to a friend, now have a 2007 with 40000. on the spedo it is also a great truck, both were made in the USA. not mexico so I think its a save money plan not who makes the best trucks

 

[lightsOUT]

as far as quality goes. how pivitol a role do you think they auto-workers actually play??? you realize that automobiles are designed and engineered not only for their mechanical ability but also for the building process. auto-workers simply apply the physical labor needed to build them. they arnt they ones that designed a crappy injection pump, or horrible steering, or whatever other problems exist.



its not like auto-workers can pick and choose how they put the vehicle together. its not like there is 3 or 4 guys who get a pile of parts delieverd to their garage with no instructions, and over a 30 pack decided to start bolting stuff on. ever think it might be crappy engineering as to why your truck is so junky??? do you think that your truck was beautifully engineered but its demise was the person who put it together????





dont forget there is quality control check points along the assembly line. there is checks, re-checks, and final checks. and not all are done by UAW members.

 

[lightsOUT]

i had a 95 2500, it was a great truck its still running fine sold it to a friend, now have a 2007 with 40000. On the spedo it is also a great truck, both were made in the usa. Not mexico so i think its a save money plan not who makes the best trucks

bingo!!!!!

 

[robertyoke]

BS. how many execuatives make over 1,000,000 a year??? heaven forbid their $20,000,000 bonus is diminished by just a nickel. its funny how its always the fault of labor. especially if the labor is organized. how much of the entire work force of chrysler is UAW? you'd be suprised to find out its very little. the UAW workers are only in the US or Canada. they make cars all over the world. they make parts all over the world. they sell and ship cars all over the world. have offices all over the world. and yet they still seem to fail. it comes down to corporate greed. guess what. some foreign cars (namely european built) are built with organized labor. those companies seem to do fine selling cars in the US, and thats even after they pay import tarrifs.



our trucks have been built in mexico for sometime now. as well as many other cars. and they still seemed to fail. hmmmmmm..... maybe its not just the UAW after all?

yes and no..... it sucks how much the exec. make that run the big three but also how about the union heads? they aint workin for chump change... and how much for union lobbyist? the system has failed... well unless you are the super rich, then it a fat kid in the candy store.

 

[ChrisOlson]

hello
I am Union, I am a union Marine Engineer. I also am a union official.
I do not make a huge wage. I am a average Guy that leaves my family and goes to sea to make a living. On this thread I have seen so much misinformation on unions it causes me great grief. do any of you do any research or do you only cite what you hear on mainstream news (Biased). Even if you are not union or support unions every perk that you have with your job such as vacations and holidays and health benifits were because of unions. Do some research on your own below is a link to wage comparison. the mexico workers do not make $25. 00 an hour try $2. 00 and hour read the article. below

Mexican autoworkers' wages driven further south | The San Diego Union-Tribune

believe me when I say this, Big corporations would love to have 2 classes of people in the US those that have and those that have not. and Yes i am predictible in saying that it is upper management with the huge salarys and bonuses that are the down fall of these major corporations. and somewhere in this this thread someone quoted $60 an hour for the average united auto worker. This is a misnomer Please show me the proof of this because I could not find any thing to substantiate this statement. what i did find was an a verage wage was 25 to 30 an hour check these links.

Average UAW Pay: $28, Not $70 - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com

United Auto Workers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

FactCheck.org: Do auto workers really make more than $70 per hour?

Samuel Gompers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

all you have to do is click the links and read I did all the work. if you only read one read the last one on Samuel Gompers.
I did not use any union web sites for these links, i used neutral sites.
So i Close this,not with hostility but a challenge to you to educate your selves on the role that unions have made played in the late 1800s and early 1900s to make all americans lives better. Do some research. Educate yourself instead of just throwing out a bunch of false statements.

have a great day

Chris

 

[Grizzly]

Thank you Chris. I find this very educational and interesting. I feel that unions were needed from about 1900 to about 1940. I also feel that, now they do more harm than good. I blame them for driving out our manufacturing business to other countries where goods can be made much cheaper than in this country. The good old USA hasn't produced a camera, radio or TV in many years. Why?. Labor cost are too high. It's sad to think that the auto industry is headed in the same direction.



I feel strongly that we can not afford to loose our truck and auto manufacturing business. Having said that, I will not purchase a Ford or Chevy car until they are as reliable as a Honda or Toyota. So not only do we need to make them cheaper, we need to make them better.

 

[ChrisOlson]

Grizzly
thank you for your kind words. I would kindly say the Unions did not drive out the manufacturing business. I would rebut by saying it would be first Profits, secondly NAFTA,thirdly the not in my back yard mentality ie EPA restrictions, there are many Toyotas and hondas made in USA not by Union workers however. but the pay package is very competive with the union pay package in states with low cost of living. once again a standard set by UAW that the toyota and honda companies set their pay by for their workers they also pay their workers bonuses

UAW And Why Honda And Toyota Workers Are Not Interested | Automotive.com UAW And Why Honda And Toyota Workers Are Not Interested Blog & Enthusiast Discussions
just one link.

I will stand by my statement that even in present day we still owe Unions a vote of thanks for our standard of living.

Thanks for replying
chris

 

[Grizzly]

Chris, we may not agree on everything, but we do agree that some Honda's and Toyota's are made in the US by non-union auto workers. My wife's 03 Toyota Camry and my 03 Toyota Avalon were made in Georgetown, Kentucky and both have been excellent from day one. Other Japanese cars are made here as well. Why is it that their quality is better then our UAW built cars and trucks? Why are Dodge trucks built in Mexico better then trucks built in the US?



When I was growing up I can remember GM cars that that had an emblem on the running board or door sill that said, "Body By Fisher", to which my dad said that it was a sign of quality. Well that sign went away and so did the quality of the 70's, 80's and 90's cars. I believe that they are getting better, now that the hand writings on the wall, but still not as good as a Toyota.



Keep up the good work Big Three, you're getting better.



george

 

[robertyoke]

Chris, we may not agree on everything, but we do agree that some Honda's and Toyota's are made in the US by non-union auto workers. My wife's 03 Toyota Camry and my 03 Toyota Avalon were made in Georgetown, Kentucky and both have been excellent from day one. Other Japanese cars are made here as well. Why is it that their quality is better then our UAW built cars and trucks? Why are Dodge trucks built in Mexico better then trucks built in the US?



When I was growing up I can remember GM cars that that had an emblem on the running board or door sill that said, "Body By Fisher", to which my dad said that it was a sign of quality. Well that sign went away and so did the quality of the 70's, 80's and 90's cars. I believe that they are getting better, now that the hand writings on the wall, but still not as good as a Toyota.



Keep up the good work Big Three, you're getting better.



george

i disagree, i think some of the gm's and fords are just as good or better then the toyota stuff... also while it would be nice for the competition, for toyota and nissan to make a real truck... not a car with a bed. . and a diesel to boot.

 

[CBlack]

I work for Harley-Davidson with the IAM union... . Jeff

Is the IAM part of the UAW?



I ask because I find it interesting that a lot of union members will standup for the UAW while having nothing to do with them. On another forum a member of the UAW in the aircraft industry kept harping on us about our comments on the UAW in Detroit. After several lengthy discussions it turns out that his branch/chapter/whatever and industry are completely different than that of the Big 3.



I know several current and former union members, Teamsters, some electrical union in Missouri and others. They all say the same thing about their respective group, "I can understand why people join a union, but for the most part they are a bunch of people who can't think for themselves. " My friend in the Teamsters was especially explicit on this fact. The coworkers have to ask for permission for everything, because the union may not approve.



A gentleman I know used to work for Ford and Chrysler, lived in Michigan and was part of the UAW. He and his wife both say that the UAW has had a hand in running those companies and state into the ground. Are they totally to blame? Hardly, but they don't deserve the brush off either.



Their bloated, pampered programs like jobs banks, yes they do exist, are paying top wages and benefits for people to do absolutely nothing. So, instead of GM/Ford/Chrysler acting like a normal company and laying people off if things are slow, closing a factory, etc. , they put these people in jobs banks programs so they can keep their standard of living. I have an idea, why don't these people move to another location to get another job.



My main beef is with the union bosses. I'm sure they're not making peanuts doing what they're doing. And the fact that they blatantly come out and support politicians and their policies. And using member dues for this. I'm sure most of the worker bees are good people who just want to make a decent living for themselves and their families. However, I am also sure that there are some that are completely stealing oxygen.



As an aspiring small business owner, I'll be damned if I ever let a group of employees tell me how to run my company and what I'm going to pay them.



The free market should be what determines wages and costs. If someone can build something cheaper somewhere else, so be it. A business is in business to make a profit, not to pay the best wages and give the best benefits. Between our crooked government, the unions, and our regressive tax system it is no wonder we don't manufacture anything any longer.



If no one has read Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand, I highly recommend it. It is very telling of what is happening today.

 

[Jeff Knight]

No its not. Its the International Association of Machinist & Aerospace Workers. We too have the members that do nothing but we also have a lot of good workers. Not all union workers are lazy and just take up space... Jeff

 

[Adventure Bob]

Chris, while your quoting the PAY table of workers what your not including is the benefits that are indirect pay, negotiated by the union into UAW shop plants. GM didnt write off 20Billion (with a B) in retirement benefits because they were paying $27 an hour. Im not saying "labor" is getting rich, dont even mean to imply it. One of the articles you ref'd even spells it out: Because the union ensured great benefits, benefits workers in non union plants and other countries arent getting, they priced their constituents out of the market. Like it or not thats a cost of labor that has to be paid from somewhere. GM can't make their cars cost much more or they wont sell, so they have to reduce cost. in this case there are cheaper labor pools so the work goes there.



My point is that in a global economy, you cannot expect to make huge amounts more than some other group of people doing the same job. Autoworkers in America have made considerably more money than any other plant workers anywhere else in the world for quite sometime now. Now those folks make an equivalent product, but for less money. Adam Smith is right, yet again.

 

[lightsOUT]

first and foremost this discussion while excellent should stop. the topic is if our trucks are made in mexico or not. the answer to that is yes they are.



but i am but a man who is not without flaws or temptation so i will add another post.



#1 the idea that a union memebers dues is used for politician lobbying is moot. so what? every member knows it from the begining. its not hiddin. if you dont like it, you can simiply quit. when someone tells me the difference between my NRA member ship dues and my union dues paying for politics then you can argue its not right. until then it is what it is. nothing more, nothing less.



#2 not all unions are structured the same. to be honest i know almost nothing about how the UAW works. i am in a construction union and let me tell you there is no "job banks" when a contractor gets done with you, you get laid off. i have lots of friends who work construction and are not in a union and when there is not much work for them they continue drawing a check by the company letting them mill around the shop or whatever. im not angry about that i think its great. good for them, at least they are making a check.

i did the same thing i do now as before i got in the union. and im here to tell ya there is "dead weight" everywhere. doesnt matter what side of the fence you are on. when i was non-union i remember the "hour suckers" as we used to call them coming to work early and punching in so that they could pad thier checks with OT. same goes for at the end of the day they would spend 15 or 20 min filling out their time sheet before they punched out. mind you these people wouldnt do anything productive during these pre/post work times, but they were punched in padding their checks. think about 15-30 min a day add to your check at the end of the week. thats all OT and you did absolutley nothing for it. heck there was one guy that used to punch in early, then sneak out and go to dunkin donuts before the actual work started at 7am. that doesnt exist in constuction unions. atleast not in mine and where i come from. your time starts at 7 and ends at 3:30. doesnt matter if you go to your machine early to fire it up cause you want heat. thats on you then. in the end 99% of the population are good workers, who just want to do their job and then go home to their familys. union or non-union. people are people.



#3 saying that foreign cars are built better than domestic is opinion, not fact.



#4 i dont disagree with a previous post stating that they would be damned before they let someone else tell them how to run their company. good i completly agree, so keep being good to your employees and they will never organize. remember unions are not mandated. they are formed by the employees. the employees decide, not the unions. As far as wages go. they are decided by the union and the company. thats why they are called "collective barganing agreements". these companys know what it costs and they know it for a long time. its nothing new. its not like chrysler was just working along making cars for 100 years and then one day the union came to them and demanded a wage that put the company into bankruptcy. these companys hire accountants, laywers, statisticians who all figure out how much money the company can afford and how much they cant. and for how long they can do it.



#5 to answer the question of why someone would stick up for a union that they dont belong to. its kind of a brotherhood type thing. like being a mason. i may not go to your lodge but i still call you brother.

 

[robertyoke]

first and foremost this discussion while excellent should stop. the topic is if our trucks are made in mexico or not. the answer to that is yes they are.





#4 i dont disagree with a previous post stating that they would be damned before they let someone else tell them how to run their company. good i completly agree, so keep being good to your employees and they will never organize. remember unions are not mandated. they are formed by the employees. the employees decide, not the unions. As far as wages go. they are decided by the union and the company. thats why they are called "collective barganing agreements". these companys know what it costs and they know it for a long time. its nothing new. its not like chrysler was just working along making cars for 100 years and then one day the union came to them and demanded a wage that put the company into bankruptcy. these companys hire accountants, laywers, statisticians who all figure out how much money the company can afford and how much they cant. and for how long they can do it.





"they are formed by the employees. the employees decide, not the unions"



do they? sometime things get out of hand, like health care, banking and the uaw! people need to wake up to see the corruption thats all around! read this!



Federal Labor Board to Prosecute United Auto Workers Union for Blocking Freightliner Workers’ Wage Increase | National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation