ATS transmission Woes

[Mark_Kendrick]

We all need to know these things. The bottom line is you don't see anyone posting upset over a DTT, Suncoast, or Goerend Brother's transmissions. In fact I posted just the opposite. I had problems with my Goerend Brother's transmission install, Dave quickly offered to pay for everything and worked extra time to get me new parts over Christmas weekend. Turned out His transmission was FINE, the problem was wth my Flexplate. It was warped just slightly. I posted on how great the customer service was.



Guys who are trying to make up thier mind want to know these things, The fellow that posted his problem has every right, in fact it is greatly appreciated.



Oh yeah, Dave never complained or even asked for freight back. FWIW Suncoast and The Diesel Connection bothe played roles in fixing my problem. It was done quickly and I never felt like I was taken advantage of.

If you think that ATS is the only vendor having a problem from time to time you are WAY off base.



I have seen problems with Goerend, DTT, Suncoast, and even my favorite, ATS. I have seen customers that had legitimate gripes with all of them. I have seen where the customers were dead wrong too.



I watched one vendor get kicked out of a transmission seminar at May Madness a couple years ago, then off the TDR.



To crucify a vendor that is making right on their commitment is not right.



You can't expect any vendor to warranty everything without question. They wouldn't be a vendor for long. They'd be bankrupt.



I know the guys at ATS and I can honestly say their heart is in the right place. You can't ask for more than that especially when they pay for 2 transmissions and installation under warranty.



FWIW,

Mark

 

[tractorface]

I am not trying to cruicify anyone. Just pointing out the obvious. I have read a bunch of posts lately because up until December I was shopping for a transmission. Complaints on brand A were more numerous than others. That does not mean they make a bad product or anything else for that matter. I was glad to read what people wrote. Just reading Hey Awesome trans, or DTT all the way, or Square Tabs are better does not tell anyone crap. I like to read about problems so I can see if the person reporting them is happy or not. I always judge a company by how well they deal with problems. Agreed not all customers are fair that is why we read many posts before making a choice. To say Bill had no right to post is just Wrong. I felt the second post by Joel was right on for how I want to see a vendor handle this situation.



Like it or not this thread is more informative than many transmission threads I have read.



If I sound like I am talking bad about ATS I apologize. I don't really care who anyone buys there stuff from to be honest. This board is useless without people posting on products Good or Bad.



FWIW, I see this asnot a Bad thread for ATS, afterall they payed for two of the transmissions.

 

[dfuller]

Reply to BillZ

Bill,

Do you know the actual weight of your trailer ??? If it weights 12,000 lb as you have stated, and given the base weight of your truck is over 6,000 lb, you are exceeding the manufacturer's gross weight of 18,000 lb. Subsequently if you are actually over the gross weight rating and considering your pass transmission issues you should take a close look at your U-joints and differential for wear.

Regarding ATS, I have their torque converter, valve body and commander installed in my '98 Quad for over two years and haven't had any problems. Just change the fluid and filter, and adjust the bands per their recommendations. I especially like the positive non-jerk shifting and hold back in particular for second gear. I tow an Award 5,500 lb trailer as well as my Kubota tractor on an equipment trailer (7,800 lb) throughout the Sierras up to 10,000 feet, and the truck with the ATS setup is just perfect.

Regarding a manual transmission setup, since your towing a 12,000 lb trailer you are going to find out that attempting to pull out from a stop on a 6 percent plus grade, the stock clutch isn't going to last very long. Also downshift the 6 speed transmission on a grade can be a hairy experience for a novice..... If your interested in the 5 speed, read the horror stories about it before going in that direction.

Cheers,

Doug Fuller

 

[biggy238]

Wow this one is sticky. I can see both sides of this with equal meritt. That was a large investment and I can understand The want or need for flawless performance at that price range. But I hope you can also see how damaging such a report can be when displayed on a public venue.



I Also think that what took place made the best light of the situation. Automated trannies are a business that I wouldn't even think of. A spec of dust could end your day. Look how many cummins engines have shattered gear cases. We still seek them out of the crowd. It may just be my upbringing but it sounds like the kind of situation where something was going to happen no-matter what, whether your transmission died, or you wound up with a manual and a nut fell off, or the rivets let loose on a clutch.



I'm tiptoeing around saying it was user error because I don't exactly feel that it was, and it's exactly the kind of thing that hundreds of TDR members are doing, myself included. Torque up the engine, build the transmission, and then drag around whatever we can hook too. Some just fair better than others. I personally just think you got struck by lightening twice.



Kyle

 

[CATCRACKER]

i am no transmission expert but i did sleep at a holiday inn last night so with that in mind i will say that even if you know what you are doing from what i have been told there is not alot of room for error when installing one of the these trannys! get distracted at in the wrong spot and bam you forget to torque s/m etc... its happens alot. i wonder how many trannys ATS,DTT,Suncoast, etc. build a year compared to each other. my guess is that DTT and ATS build the most but i could be wrong.

 

[tractorface]

Good question. I never did ask when I was researching but do they all Dyno test them before shipping. Guess that would only be possible when purchased from the home base. I agree the installer/rebuilder is the key. If you really stop and think about this thread. Bill Z has gotten good service. I would say most of us would be happy id DC handled bussiness this way. The rub may be that the bar is set very high for the Transmission companies. I mean think about it we are very lucky to have a handful of excellent choices. We read about great transmissions and customer service on TDR every week so it does not take much of a slip to be kicked around. Good for all of us customer types. :-laf

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

ATS dyno tests all of their trannies as far as I know. When I wsa there a few weeks ago they were building a new transmission dyno out of a 12v cummins to really put the screws to them.



Later,

Mark

 

[LightmanE300]

Flame suit on - who cares if they replaced 2 transmissions under warranty? It should have worked right the first time, considering ATS themselves installed it. I can understand that every company has some defectives - however, IMO ATS should have made damn sure that the second one was installed correctly and problem free. It says he had 2 weeks downtime with no truck. That's a huge cost, so Joel from ATS who says there was no cost to BillZ is completely inaccurate. Whether or not someone apologized is beside the point to me - and everything I"ve heard about ATS has been that they are quite polite and friendly. That doesn't change the fact that he's on trans #3 now though. I'd say the fact that ATS took care of the issues under warranty is a REQUIREMENT of a reputable company, not a positive attribute of their customer service.

 

[catoiler]

So lightman what you are saying is that it should have been right from the start with no problems?Then how come my truck has been back to the dealer 4 times for a bad rear end. 4 times for a inop A/C,been without the truck for 6 weeks with no loaner,and a half dozen minor things that should have been fixed RIGHT the FIRST time!D/C says it's not their problem! Who had to make the payments while it was in the shop ME. I wished they would have treated me the way ATS did with bill. Again it is in the shop and right now and D/C is telling me that they cannot give me a loaner, Dealer says at least 2 weeks to repair it! Now that is customer service I guess that means that Chrysler is NOT a REPUTABLE Co.

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

Unless ATS did the install themselves there is no way they can guarantee a problem free installation. It's possible ATS messed up but it just as likey to be the installers fault



did you read this from Joel's post:

Did you forget that Chuck in Seattle rebuilt your second transmission, not ATS? Because I felt that YOU were not at fault, and Chuck would not stand behind his work, I replaced your transmission at no charge to you whatsoever.

How is that second transmission an ATS failure? they didn't even build it.



I hold Clint's feet to the fire when I have a problem and he has yet to let me down even when it was MY fault.



What do you expect from them? if they didn't do it how can they control it? That's illogical and unreasonable.



MK

 

[LightmanE300]

Catoiler - your problem is clearly with DC or your dealer and unrelated to ATS trans - let's not compare apples to oranges.



If you read my post above, I didn't say it had to be right from the start with no problems, although that's typically expected when you pay full retail for a high end aftermarket part and have it installed by the experts themselves. I said I understand that companies have failures, but that ATS should have made sure the second one was right.

 

[LightmanE300]

Unless ATS did the install themselves there is no way they can guarantee a problem free installation. It's possible ATS messed up but it just as likey to be the installers fault



did you read this from Joel's post:





How is that second transmission an ATS failure? they didn't even build it.



I hold Clint's feet to the fire when I have a problem and he has yet to let me down even when it was MY fault.



What do you expect from them? if they didn't do it how can they control it? That's illogical and unreasonable.



MK

While calling someone's opinion illogical and unreasonable is rude, I"ll let that one go. My point is ATS should have made sure the installer knew what he was doing and was qualified. They go on and on about how they don't list installers on the site so that they can point you toward an authorized installer of their products. Am I to assume the place that Bill took his truck and ATS sent their products is NOT an authorized or qualified installer? In my illogical and unreasonable opinion, I think they should have taken the extra time (outside of simply sending the parts) to speak with/guide the installer if necessary, to make sure Bill didn't have another problem.



I'm not saying ATS is a bad company, and I'm not saying to avoid their products. No company is perfect all the time, but I feel bad for Bill, and think that ATS could have done better in his situation.

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

Lets pretent I'm buying a Lightman transmission. I buy it drive it a while, have a problem. I don't tell you about the problem I go to joe schmuckatelli, let him totally muck it up then call you for a warranty repair. You then, out of the goodness of your heart, fix it (i did have a problem with the original after all). Then I go down the road and unknown number of miles later I have another problem. After my last problem you are justifiably skeptical but fix it anyway. You not only fix it but move mountains to get me parts and back on the road for my daughter's wedding.



After all of this I'll show my gratitude by posting my disgust for you saving my arse on multiple occasions by thrashing you in the largest forum of your product's target audience.



Illogical and unreasonable is putting it nicely, not rude. I'd say it how I see it but you'd only see a bunch of these ************.

 

[LightmanE300]

Well Mark all I have to say to you is that you're also rude and you're making a big assumption, which you shouldn't. We don't know if ATS knew the installer or not, or what conversations took place. You are assuming BillZ took it somewhere without ats' knowledge whatsoever. I guess only BillZ or Joel can answer that.

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

Well Mark all I have to say to you is that you're also rude and you're making a big assumption, which you shouldn't. We don't know if ATS knew the installer or not, or what conversations took place. You are assuming BillZ took it somewhere without ats' knowledge whatsoever. I guess only BillZ or Joel can answer that.

Rude would be calling you illogical and unreasonable. I said that your expectation was illogical and unreasonable, and IT IS. Just because kids do bad things they aren't necessarily bad kids.



You are making a statement about me not my opinion. I was merely pointing out the OBVIOUS error in your logic.



Oh, and I didn't make an assumption.

 

[JTravers]

Happy ATS owner

Just want to add one to the plus side of the conversation. I installed the ATS Stage IV with the Commander 18 months and 20,000 miles ago. I absolutely love the transmission, converter, and commander. Half of those miles have had our 38 ft fiver toybox (> then 10,000 lbs) behind us. Shifts are positive but not over bearing and the converter does not slip. Best of all, being able to manager the torque converter has resulted in NO HEATING PROBLEMS. I feel the setup is everything they advertised and more.

 

[ndurbin]

To me it doesn't matter wether ATS, DTT, Suncoast, Goerend, or whoever has problems w/ their transmission because they all well have some. But when you sit for 2-3 weeks at each failure (like BillZ in this case) and have to wait for the vendor to figure out what he/she is going to do about the problem, thats crap! If I built a product and someone had problems w/ it that would be my main concern and would take priority over anything else. I don't care if you have to bring a whole shop to a stop to fix it, if thats what it takes thats what you do for a customer that paid you money for a product (alot of money in this case) and had problems with it in my opinion. It's crazy people who are waiting to have things built for them get put infront of someone that has a warranty issue.



Thats my opinion you can agree or disagree I don't care.



Nathan

 

[CMBOld]

Ats

Posted here a few times 'bout bifferent stuff so I'll chime in too. Got six grand in my stage 4 with no billit shaft so I know I paid dearly. Went to the transmission shop that has done my transmission work over the years, ATS guys knew the shop and said they've done plenty of 'em. Just after getting it back I had 2-nd gear starts so took it in and had a f. r. e. d changed out, fine now. {Fairly-Rediculous-Electronic-Devise, they all have a f. r. e. d or two. Sorry to have spent the money now that #53 looked back at me the other day!Probably trade 'er in soon, lost confidence, Mike

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

Here's my experiences with ATS and their torque converter and transmissions:



I have had two complete ATS transmission failures in the last 12 months!!! Here's a recap:



Feb 2004: Paid $6,000 for ATS torque converter and transmission.

March 2004: In shop to repair vacume lines installed incorrectly by ATS in Denver.

July 2004: Torque converter completely failed - ATS repaired (2 weeks down)

Aug 2004: Back to shop to install $5 part to prevent line pressure over-load faults. 120 miles driving to install a $5 part that ATS should have installed originally.

Jan 2005: Valve stuck open - low line pressure - transmission wasted! Sat in Yuma for 3 weeks while ATS decided it was their problem. And then they asked me to help pay!!



We're on our 3rd ATS transmission - let's hope we're lucky this time.



We tow a 5th wheel trailer (12,000 pounds), drive a 1996 Dodge Cummins.



The thing that really got to me was that never once did ATS say "gosh we're sorry you're having problems with our product" almost every time they implied that it must have been something we did - and everytime it was their product that failed.



I'm not impressed with ATS nor their products. Their customer service is probably the worst I've ever experienced.



Bill Zawlocki

Gig Harbor, WA

I agree that he had a bit of bad luck. There is no mention of the third party rebuild in his timeline. He only says how long he was down and when, not they truth about why.



If I sold you a set of twins and you got them home and had your local fabricator tear them apart then weld them back together you can bet that anything resembling a warranty would be out the window.



If you have unauthorized repairs or modifications done to your transmission you cannot in good conscience expect ATS to fix it, much less fix it twice.



I don't understand how anybody who reads all of this thread can be less than amazed that he got it covered under warranty the first time.

 

[BillZ]

2nd Replacement transmission

When our 1st ATS transmission failed, I called ATS and they directed me to their fella in Seattle (about 60 miles one way). The Seattle transmission guy diagnosted the problem and he and ATS arrived at their solution (which was replace the TC and rebuild the rest of the transmission with all new parts sent to the Seattle transmission guy from ATS). The Seattle transmission guy (Ed's Transmission) really took good care of us - he always gave us the feeling he just wanted to get the thing fixed and get us back on the road.



I don't want to even attempt to second guess why ATS decided to have Ed's rebuild the transmission and that's not my issue - but Ed's did rebuild it under ATS' direction and guidance.



When the 2nd transmission went out, the fella in Yuma (Southeast Diesel) said this one was shot, ATS (after looking at our failed transmission) decided to ship an entirely different rebuilt transmission with another new TC. ATS reported that they tested this 3rd transmission 3 separate times with 3 different mechanics - they said this was the last time they wanted me to have a failed transmission.



SO, ATS did stand behind their product - I just was hoping for more compassion and a little more speed.



I just hope this one does the trick - it certainly feels and works better than #1 or #2.



Bill